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@dariusz avatar
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@dariusz avatar
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Hi all Facepalm emoticon

As usual, I come to invent things, or break things that aren't broken ha ha ha.

A little history: First of all, after converting my lights to H4 (H4 bulbs with H7 sockets) and thus being able to have 2 low and 2 high beams (a huge improvement in the quality of the light) I found the consumption and temperature factor (not color but heat) of the halogen bulbs (I have been using the Osram Cool Blue Intense Next Gen) not good and I wanted to help with this factor, since now with two low and two high beams the consumption goes from 55/60W to 110/120W, and about the heat I think it could damage the external glass/plastic of the headlight over time (can happens with the H7 too).

I did an initial test by putting in some H4 LED bulbs that I got in the UK, 4500K (I hate the color of the 6000K or higher LED light, it's not good for seeing the road or for other drivers), but I must say that the quality of the light left me totally disappointed (I do a lot of driving in areas where there is no street lighting on narrow roads and in many cases with fog and/or rain), it wasn't enough light to see well and honestly the halogens worked much better. I think the reason is that the reflectors of the headlights are designed for a 360 degree light and how the LED light is projected vs the halogen.

After a lot of reading and research, changing only the bulbs to LED does not work, the headlights are not designed for them and the light dispersion pattern is terrible. LEDs work very well if the headlight is designed from the beginning for LED, but that's everything, not just a bulb.

So I've been thinking about modifying the headlight assembly to fit a full LED optic, maybe taking it apart and fitting something like the 4.5" JW Speaker 8415 model 0552031 or 0551191 they use on some Quads that are designed from scratch for LED (https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/led-headlights-model-8415-evolution/), that have low and high and the consumption for a pair is less that 10W in low and less that 28W in high.

But here come the questions:

1. Has anyone taken apart one of these headlights and how complicated/dangerous etc is it?
2. Is there a simple way to attach the new optic that is firm in place and allow for adjustment according to legal requirements? (height, etc)
3. Am I crazy and should I drink some tranquilizer tea and stop inventing and continue using halogens?

Thanks all for opinions and reading, and sorry for long text, regards
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Hi all,

I find another option to be used inside (checking old posts looks as the biggest size is 100mm so the first ones can be not the correct choice. It's a pity that in all those old posts the images are not available.).

There are the JW Speaker serie 93 https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/90mm-headlights-model-93/ the 0560401 part number to be exact. It have low, high and DRL and is superior to the 8415 in distance, but is biggest/longest.

But the question of disassemble the headlight and fix the unit inside so all works well continue to be a big concern for me if I have access to a old headlight unit only to play is fantastic, but it is not the case

Any help?
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2019 MP3 500 Sport
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UTC quote
There was a topic on LED conversion for prior models. Sbart and Pinhead contributed to it.. the Osram bulbs were utterly plug and play for me and provided awesome performance compared to the originals. Three years later they are still going strong for me.
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@dariusz avatar
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Thanks. Not sure if I check the link, if you can provide me, I appreciated.

The question is, what is more efficient and provide better light quality, as my personal tests show that putting only a led bulb provide a light that goes to a lot of places but not to the road as needed using the actual mirrors inside the headlights
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2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
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UTC quote
It might help to post a picture of your project and the front of your bike. It sounds like you were putting 2 bulbs into each light?

You might consider adding external auxiliary lighting. There are some low amp 10 watt spot lights you can get and link them to the battery via a switched relay with an ignition circuit. That might get you closer to what you are looking for for additional lighting. There are flat LED strip lights for cars that would light the immediate area around the bike and flood lights too with more throw.
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UTC quote
I do a H4 conversion, but my concern is that the amp draw from halogen lamps is big and all the LED lamps I test are really disappointment as of the quality of the light and where it goes in the road.

About pictures, I try to figure all before start to desmantele so I can continue using the bike as all the pieces come to my hands (reduce the downtime)
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UTC quote
This was one post LED bulbs for MP3 500 (Post 2542102)

Note mine is a 2019ish US edition MP3 500.
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The Osram bulb in that topic is awesome as far as light goes, at least on my bike.Superior to the old bulb by a consoderable margin.

Also, my H4 croaked after only 6 months, and I dont want to replace bulbs yearly, it's a lot of work with the MP3 500... The Osram has been bomb proof for 4 years...
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PabloLie wrote:
The Osram bulb in that topic is awesome as far as light goes, at least on my bike.Superior to the old bulb by a consoderable margin.

Also, my H4 croaked after only 6 months, and I dont want to replace bulbs yearly, it's a lot of work with the MP3 500... The Osram has been bomb proof for 4 years...
I'm searching to find something that have durability and that both sides light at same time. I find that with the H4 conversion the light is very good, but the amp draw using halogens is what have me concerned, and as always, searching for a ultimate solution, and with H7 is not the way in my opinion.

I have days not only seeing in the JW Speaker 90mm model 93 but in the Morimoto M LED 2.0 projectors and the best way to do a clean installation. Both have a nice amp draw close to 2.5A (30W in 12V) for each side.
My only concern in the Morimoto is the fan and noise it generate Facepalm emoticon and for sure the price in both is not something small so I need to be sure before start Crying or Very sad emoticon
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UTC quote
A friend have some H4 bulbs that use a Projector Lens (white in low beam and yellow in high beam) that I can try before do other things, but the white low beam is 6500K (sounds for me as to much, I like more something closes to 5000K or 5500K) and 3000K in high beam, so I'm not 100% convinced by the idea, but I have nothing to lose by trying it before attempting a more drastic change.
@petro avatar
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Mp3 400
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Location: Sweden for now...
 
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UTC quote
I bought cheap Chinese H1 Led lamps and as expected I got disappointed...

I'm looking at this now: https://a.aliexpress.com/_EzTPyVq
With The white halo and high/low and both on simultaneously for better lumin...

Plan is to replace original, carve them out and make a bracket for this ones.[/url]
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Hi Petro, I went for the H1 xenon option, but between the ballast, the heat produced, etc. etc., I'm going to follow the LED route.

After much review of options, and taking into account that the bulbs (just the bulb) with the lens/magnifier are generally very thick (about 3cm in diameter for the fanless ones) and the ones with a smaller diameter are long at the back due to the use of fans to cool them and I doubt they will fit under the dust cover, I think I'm going to go for these Bi-Led Projectors https://ddmtuning.com/Bi-LED-Proj-Non-Destructive-3in-Pr. These are 5500K which is in a more acceptable range than the +6000K that most sell which are very bad for seeing well.

The draw with both on in low would be about 72W (36W each) and in high 92W (46W each), that is less than what I currently have with the halogens (110W low and 120W high, 230W if pass is activated). One advantage is that due to the way the projectors are designed, in high there is also low so a temporary change of lights (pass) would not be the combined value, but the high beam value and that's it, therefore the original wiring should be more than enough.

I'm currently looking into taking the headlight apart and doing a very clean, factory-looking installation, and trying to be sure of the clearance/space I have internally, etc. I think I'll also put in some Halos from Diode Dynamics to work in conjunction with the DRL and some shrounds (maybe from DDM or Morimoto) to hide the projector stuff for the clean look I like.

After I have all the theory clear, I will make the purchase and start the process.

Work in progress
@petro avatar
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UTC quote
After further investigation I jump ship on the above mentioned lights, nothing seems to be confident enough in this Chinese firm to make it worth the hassle...

I ordered these: https://www.bevinsee.com/products/f31b-h1-motorcycle-led-headlights-high-low-beam since I had great experience with bevinsee before.

I'll be back with before/after pics.
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Molto Verboso
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Dollars to donuts those LEDs are too tall to fit the Piaggio rubber access covers.

AFAIK, the Osram is still the only game in town and I use them on all my bikes
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UTC quote
sbaert wrote:
Dollars to donuts those LEDs are too tall to fit the Piaggio rubber access covers.

AFAIK, the Osram is still the only game in town and I use them on all my bikes
I've cutted a big X on the rubber so the cheapo lamps can stick out and ventilate... When proper ones are used the rubber despite the X still works as intended.

The Osram LEDs are almost as good as the Bevinsee when it comes to brightness but 4 times more expensive last time I checked... 😟
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Hope it works out for you, but I tried a set of Chinese LED before going with Osram. The Chinese set failed after about 5 weeks.

As with most things in life, you get what you pay for
@petro avatar
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Mp3 400
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UTC quote
sbaert wrote:
Hope it works out for you, but I tried a set of Chinese LED before going with Osram. The Chinese set failed after about 5 weeks.

As with most things in life, you get what you pay for
I've tested a lot of chinese ones too and can only agree with you...
However, the Bevinsee bought 3 years ago are still alive on my bike in Sweden.
I Hope these ones are the same quality...
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Another thing to consider is that the Osram are passively cooled (no fan) and one less point of failure.

In addition, they produce just enough heat to disperse condensation to keep the lenses clear.

With the fan, the heat is vented to the environment making the headlights prone to fogging up
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UTC quote
I'm sorry to say that I lost my before pics, or I can't find them...
Fwiw, here's my high/low with the Bevinsee.
I'm happy with them, my weak lights on this bike is solved...
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
It looks good Petro, congrats. The only thing is my comment about light dispersion, I feel that it is like "dispersed" not focused. Thanks for sharing Clap emoticon

I'm going the bi-led projectors route (waiting for the components to disassemble and assemble just once), I know it involves disassembling the entire headlight, wiring, etc., but I hope the result is worth the effort and I have a long-term solution without setbacks, as I comment here https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic191826#2722318
@petro avatar
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UTC quote
dariusz wrote:
It looks good Petro, congrats. The only thing is my comment about light dispersion, I feel that it is like "dispersed" not focused. Thanks for sharing Clap emoticon

I'm going the bi-led projectors route (waiting for the components to disassemble and assemble just once), I know it involves disassembling the entire headlight, wiring, etc., but I hope the result is worth the effort and I have a long-term solution without setbacks, as I comment here https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic191826#2722318
If the Bevinsee hadn't fulfilled my wishes I would have gone on these:

95,10€ | RONAN 3.0inch 45W Bi Led Two Reflector Lenses Car Headlight 2000LM 5500K For Hella 3R G5 Hi Lo Beam Lens Upgrade Retrofit
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuM7qaY
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UTC quote
Petro wrote:
If the Bevinsee hadn't fulfilled my wishes I would have gone on these:

95,10€ | RONAN 3.0inch 45W Bi Led Two Reflector Lenses Car Headlight 2000LM 5500K For Hella 3R G5 Hi Lo Beam Lens Upgrade Retrofit
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EuM7qaY
I'm not sure if this one works for you, see the installation options first. The one I purchase use the H7 base to install so is less "intrusive" and in my opinion a lot easiest to complete the work... but is only my opinion
⬆️    About 7 months elapsed    ⬇️
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I'm reviving this post, as sometimes it's good to have the end of the story. I finish the project at end of April, but as always I like to test and take some pictures to share and write something that can help others, and never have time.

A brief summary:

The lighting at night on my MP3 left a lot to be desired (I live in an area with narrow roads, lots of potholes, and very poor lighting, not to mention the rainy and foggy weather conditions). After trying the most obvious solutions, such as putting H4 bulbs instead of H7 and making both low and high beams turn on at the same time (good light, very high consumption, 110W on low, 120W on high, and a pass situation would be about 230W, if they are standard halogen bulbs, if they are Osram Night Breaker or similar, this increases to about 140W on low and 150W on high, combined almost 290W in pass, it is quite high for the original MP3 electric system/installation) or putting LED bulbs (dispersed light, without focus and generating great annoyance to other drivers, not counting the trend of bulbs of more than 6000K or 6500K that bother even more and are horrible in rain or fog, and the only ones I got of 4500K in the UK, the emitted light was very very bad), or putting auxiliary lights, which in the case of the MP3 I did not see a way that they would not break the aesthetics of the motorcycle. So I decided to do a more in-depth job, installing some 2.5" Bi-LED Projectors (the 3" ones were too big) from DDM Tuning (I'd read good reviews about the product quality, and the installation seemed the easiest), and I managed to keep the consumption at around 76W on low and 92W on high.

Projectors have been on the market for quite some time, first as the correct way to install HIDs (the same reasons for poor light as LEDs when the headlight isn't designed for them) and then with the new trends with LED lights (more and more vehicles come with them from the factory, for example my Audi Q3 comes with LED projectors from the factory). So I started the "not so relaxed" journey to install them, since as usual, what seems easy often ends up being complex...

Disassembling the headlight wasn't complicated; between one post and another, the best way is to separate it from the center to the sides, carefully but firmly. Here came the first surprise. I thought they were glued/sealed with Butyl, but they weren't, they were glued with Urethane. Then, looking at the components, it becomes obvious that Butyl is very soft on these headlights, as they don't have any real mechanical fasteners (screws, clips, etc.) to hold the two parts together. Therefore, to reassemble, Urethane had to be used again. Once the parts are separated, you have to be very careful with the cables and connectors for the DRL LEDs, which in my case are part of the headlight unit (inside).

Once disassembled, removing the reflector screens was simple, as they are held in place by three snap-fits. Be very careful with the top one, which is the primary for vertical adjustment, as it's a kind of plastic stick that can break... I had one that happened to me, and I had to fix it.

Then I installed the headlights using the original H7 hole/base, etc. But when I put the two parts together, I realized that although I had measured and the distances seemed right, I measured them in the center, and the MP3 headlight closes tightly on the sides, causing the BI-LED lens to touch the external transparent screen and prevent the headlight from closing in full (need some like 1-1.5 cm (0.4-0.6 inch) extra space. So, the decision was to modify the original reflector screens and make 3D-printed supplements on the rear, which gave me about 2.5 cm (1 inch). To give them a better grip, I made them with an H4 design in mind (three legs instead of one in H7 and a larger diameter bracket).

The wiring was modified internally in the headlight, let me explain. Normally, high and low beam headlights work as follows: there's a common wire; in most cars or motorcycles, it's the ground (except for Subaru, which uses the positive as the common wire in the headlights). The low beams go through one wire and the high beam through the other. When you switch from low to high, the low beam turns off and the high beam energizes, and vice versa. But in the case of the projectors, the light is the same, except that a gate opens or closes, which is closed when the low beam is on. When the high beam is switched on, the gate drops using a solenoid and allows all the light to escape (a somewhat simplistic explanation, but it's easy to search online for how they work). So, I needed the LED part to be powered in both high and low beam, and when switching to high beam, the signal to activate the solenoid would be executed. I used two 30A 50V Schottky diodes to prevent current return, and the connection was simple, ensuring that everything outside the headlight remained as it came from the factory.

The 3D supplements were glued to the reflector screens with high-temperature, high-hardness epoxy, and then the process of reassembling both parts began, after first checking the height and vertical and horizontal alignment according to DOT regulations. There is a moderately complex part during assembly, because the MP3 headlights internally have a kind of chrome cone that is not affected by the original screens and bulbs, but when installing projectors with their Shrounds, they limit the vertical graduation movement (something I discovered during assembly and had to open again). The solution was to add some small nylon washer supplements to increase the height of the light beam on the legs that attach the headlight assembly to the motorcycle, since the adjuster is too weak/delicate to withstand the pressure and can break (it happened to me with one and need reparations).

The only problem with installing these supplements externally is that the V that covers the screws and aesthetically closes the central assembly of the MP3 was slightly separated when reassembling the front of the bike. Therefore, I had to reduce the height of the bubble in the center of the headlight (in a previous post, I asked if anyone knew what its purpose was What function does this protuberance serve?), and everything fits together as if it came from the factory.

I glued both parts together with 3M Urethane, and when it dried, it was really firm, but it allows for later disassembly if necessary.

The result in terms of light quality is wonderful, without disturbing anyone, a precise cut that doesn't dazzle oncoming drivers, but with light concentrated where it should be. The DDM Bi-LEDs say the light temperature is 5500K, but when measured, it's closer to 5000K, which is excellent for rainy or foggy conditions.

I'm attaching some photos of the process and the result (the light is a lot better that the pictures show). I hope it helps some other explorers who is encouraged to invent, ha ha ha ROFL emoticon.

Sorry for the long Facepalm emoticon, but sometimes is good have all the info...
Headlight Opened
Headlight Opened
Diodes in Place
Diodes in Place
This little bastard broke trying to graduate the vertical alignment, is very fragile
This little bastard broke trying to graduate the vertical alignment, is very fragile
1st test
1st test
Supplements test to separate from the headlight screen
Supplements test to separate from the headlight screen
Supplements glued to the original reflectors after the reflectors hole increment
Supplements glued to the original reflectors after the reflectors hole increment
As I'm in the process of 3D printing, I print a tool which will help to tighten the BI-Led in place without damaging the cables
As I'm in the process of 3D printing, I print a tool which will help to tighten the BI-Led in place without damaging the cables
1st assembly with the supplements, now the headlight close with space
1st assembly with the supplements, now the headlight close with space
Alignment Process (my wife is not happy I invade the dining room)
Alignment Process (my wife is not happy I invade the dining room)
Alignment Process Result
Alignment Process Result
Before someone ask, everything fits under the original dust covers, including the halo controllers
Before someone ask, everything fits under the original dust covers, including the halo controllers
All in place
All in place
Now it looks like an owl (lights off, DRL only)
Now it looks like an owl (lights off, DRL only)
Now it looks like an owl (lights on, DRL at 50%)
Now it looks like an owl (lights on, DRL at 50%)
Low beam pattern in a wall at very close distance, maybe 40-50 cm (is possible see the light cuts to avoid disturbing drivers oncoming)
Low beam pattern in a wall at very close distance, maybe 40-50 cm (is possible see the light cuts to avoid disturbing drivers oncoming)
High beam pattern in a wall at very close distance, maybe 40-50 cm
High beam pattern in a wall at very close distance, maybe 40-50 cm
Low beam at street, the light cut is very easy to see here
Low beam at street, the light cut is very easy to see here
High beam at street
High beam at street
Another Low beam at street
Another Low beam at street
Another High beam at street
Another High beam at street
@babblefish avatar
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Piaggio 2008 MP3 500
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
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Piaggio 2008 MP3 500
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UTC quote
Good job on the lights and they're very bright.

I just installed H8 LED's for both low beam and high beam in my 2009 MP3 500. It already has projector lenses for the high beams from the factory. I guess being a US model, the left and right lights are on all the time. The low beams have a very sharp cut-off on the top.

Installing the bulbs was easy because they're accessible from the wheel wells without removing any Tupperware.

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