OP
@gummy8879 avatar
UTC

Hooked
2009 Stella, 2001 Honda Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Memphis, TN
 
Hooked
@gummy8879 avatar
2009 Stella, 2001 Honda Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Memphis, TN
UTC quote
Swapped out my VMC SuperG for a BGM 177. Installation went smoothly; other than the squish being a bit on the loose side although I think that is related to my case. Thinnest base gasket got me to 1.15mm; spec is 0.8-1.2mm.

However I neglected to check the ring gap, as I have only messed with cheaper cast iron big bores on all the scooters I've messed with so far and never checked on any of those either. This was the first alu+nikasil bore I have used. My previous post was asking about a strange new tapping/plinking noise and out of curiosity I pulled the head again. Lots of scrapes from the rings overexpanding!!

Asked a friend and he asked if I gapped the rings, which I replied no with my tail tucked between my legs Clown emoticon

I used a bar hone oiled with 10w30 automotive oil to scuff the bore up with just a couple of swipes as per his recommendation. I then centered the rings with my old piston and measured them with a feeler gauge. They were between 0.23mm and 0.245mm. Since I could not find a spec in the included manual, I gapped them to 0.31mm per a formula I found online based on bore size, although I took one a bit too far to 0.325mm. The wider one went on the top of the piston as it will experience more heat.

Nothing else I can do but put it all back together and hope for the best, right?
Lots of marks here;  I can very slightly feel where it begins and ends with my fingernail.
Lots of marks here; I can very slightly feel where it begins and ends with my fingernail.
Smaller line on the other side of the exhaust port.
Smaller line on the other side of the exhaust port.
After a couple of swipes with the bar hone
After a couple of swipes with the bar hone
Other marks at the cylinder skirt on the intake side...
Other marks at the cylinder skirt on the intake side...
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XL2 Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XL2 Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10101
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Owning your screw up, digging in and doing your best to fix the problem, and crossing your fingers hoping it works knowing you'll be shelling out more coin if it doesn't. Kudos, I am rooting for your smart fix!!! Clap emoticon And lesson earned & learned.
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6126
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6126
UTC quote
The ring gap was fine. Those vertical marks in the plating is quite common for nikasil cylinders and is just visual. I wouldn't have honed the cylinder. I'd replace those rings you gapped too much and replace them with a new set that's closer to a .23mm. If you're hearing plinking noises, double check the squish band (as in use the correct method to check squish), double check the timing, then check for jetting.
@gickspeed avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2733
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Ossessionato
@gickspeed avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2733
Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
.22-.25 for the end gap. Factory had it right.

Good save.
OP
@gummy8879 avatar
UTC

Hooked
2009 Stella, 2001 Honda Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Memphis, TN
 
Hooked
@gummy8879 avatar
2009 Stella, 2001 Honda Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Memphis, TN
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
The ring gap was fine. Those vertical marks in the plating is quite common for nikasil cylinders and is just visual. I wouldn't have honed the cylinder. I'd replace those rings you gapped too much and replace them with a new set that's closer to a .23mm. If you're hearing plinking noises, double check the squish band (as in use the correct method to check squish), double check the timing, then check for jetting.
The ones above the exhaust port? I can feel them with my fingernail; they aren't just visual. I sent these pics to a dirtbike mechanic friend of mine and he said its telltale sign the ring gap was too tight, the rings got hot, expanded and scratched into the bore. He told me 0.31mm minimum for a 63mm bore; and I found a few different formulas online that all agreed around the 0.29mm-0.32mm range for a safe minimum, with a larger gap for race bikes.
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6126
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6126
UTC quote
gummy8879 wrote:
The ones above the exhaust port? I can feel them with my fingernail; they aren't just visual. I sent these pics to a dirtbike mechanic friend of mine and he said its telltale sign the ring gap was too tight, the rings got hot, expanded and scratched into the bore. He told me 0.31mm minimum for a 63mm bore; and I found a few different formulas online that all agreed around the 0.29mm-0.32mm range for a safe minimum, with a larger gap for race bikes.
What does the piston itself look like?
OP
@gummy8879 avatar
UTC

Hooked
2009 Stella, 2001 Honda Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Memphis, TN
 
Hooked
@gummy8879 avatar
2009 Stella, 2001 Honda Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Memphis, TN
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
What does the piston itself look like?
Engine is back together and i only got pics of the crown and top side. The small marks near the center are from the TDC tool I had in the sparkplug hole. I checked around the entire piston and saw no other marks or signs of wear.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@veloce_vulture avatar
UTC

Banned
1957 NSU Prima III
Joined: UTC
Posts: 945
Location: House Arrest
 
Banned
@veloce_vulture avatar
1957 NSU Prima III
Joined: UTC
Posts: 945
Location: House Arrest
UTC quote
I'm not reading all that, it looks like it passed the finger nail test, no harm no foul.
Hopefully cheers!
@pullmyfinger avatar
UTC

Hooked
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki, some BMW, some Honda...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 294
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
 
Hooked
@pullmyfinger avatar
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki, some BMW, some Honda...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 294
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
UTC quote
Recently I pulled a standard 200 cylinder with a GS piston which has rings with some kind of chrome coating. The wall had identical vertical streaks. Ring gap is fine but ring plating has melted and created wide streaks on the wall. I don't know what your rings are coated with but my guess is that the material cooked and started to come off. From the pictures I think the BGM piston has a coating as well.

I don't know what you ended up doing with your engine, but I would not re-use the old rings as the coating is cooked and I would strongly recommend honing the cylinder to remove the smeared material. Since the cylinder is either nicasil or ceramic, you can't remove any of the cylinder coating with any hand operated honing stones/brushes. Most of that smearing will clean off.

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