Modern Vespa

Hi folks,
I wanted to open a thread to share the restauration journey of my Allstate 125 from 1965.
I bought it relatively cheap in April in Maine, the seller told me it was complete and the engine was fully rebuilt (by himself). He had also in his garage a restored Primavera, I told to myself "he surely knows his stuff".
Then I spent the next few weeks to list the missing parts (what a surprise …), the ones which needed to be either replaced or cleaned, and I was too curious so I tear down the engine. It was not too long before I came across the horror show and discover the casing were not usable anymore. Saved the parts which could be and put the rest in the trash.
Other than that, no big surprises, the chassis is in really good condition, just need a good clean up, the side panels and front fender need massaging to remove some dents but nothing too serious.
For the engine I have a seized P200 on the shelf which will be a perfect candidate.

talk about not being transparent. If it were me, i am sending photos of it to let him know the epoxy did not hold. It will not change anything, but might might make me a feel a bit better inside.

Great find! Sorry about the engine being roached. And I agree with Gick!

Following

I sent him a message, I am not expecting an answer but yes I was a bit disappointed when I removed the flywheel. It's always a gamble when you buy an unfinished project started by someone else ... but it was a good deal anyway

Chassis cleaned, it's in perfect shape and no rust ! It came out really nicely, the paint is oxidised on some exposed areas but polish and a lot of elbow grease brought back the shine.

Sucks about the engine, passing it along in that condition was bad form all around. But the chassis looks nice and straight after all the work you put in! So, if it was cheap enough as you said, you did alright. Keep posting on the progress. With lots of pics - we all love pics.

Great work. That scoot will look top shelf when you are done.

FWIW, I use a product called owatrol on my restos when there is bare metal like what you have on the floorboards. It has to be reapplied once a year or so, but it will prevent the area from rusting further. I'd taped off the area adjecent to where the floor rails attach and clear coated the area under the rails. Then I use the owatrol on the areas still exposed. 2 cents.

https://www.amazon.com/OWATROL-Colorless-Penetrating-Inhibitor-Oil-based/dp/B007NH3G0O/ref=asc_df_B007NH3G0O?mcid=d9a51812c8e835bbae56f74de488b2c0&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693281976459&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12833848969581167276&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027610&hvtargid=pla-421781620239&th=1

at least see if the guy will ship you the left over half empty tube of epoxy

The guy was just sorry for me … anyway let's move on

I already used this product for other restorations, but it becomes yellowish at some point …

Great attitude when you take a chance, a beautiful original frame you've discovered under the dirt & scum, but a sad motor 'rebuild' also revealed. Looking forward to P200 power, I am subscribed.


I've found similar stickers on only a couple of maybe 20 old bikes. I think they may be a paint code or ???


I've heard good things about Owatrol but have no experience. I like Ospho, but it's more rust killer before painting. For protecting bare metal I like Boeshield T-9 you can check out here: https://boeshield.com/about/

a 200 engine swap will be totally rad

Is that similar to acf-50 ?
https://en.blog.scooter-center.com/vespa-rust-vespa-anti-rust-agent-acf-50/

I have a VNB6 in France in original condition with a similar factory sticker, but I don't know what it means

Started to put everything back together !

Looking good!

What's the plan for the powertrain?

Thanks !

Stock P200 with 25/62 primary from DRT. I am not planning on upgrading the exhaust or cylinder yet, I am afraid by how the scooter will handle and brake with the "pogo" fork.

So it's gonna be a step by step process

You might think about installing a 36 tooth short 4th gear while you're in there. It will make the shift from 3rd to 4th gear much better.

Oops I saw your message a little bit too late, the engine is already finished (for the most of it).
But I will keep this info in mind if whenever I need to split the crankcase for any reason

So what 8" brake drum conversion did you use on the P200 engine? I'm going to be converting my PX150 engine over to 8" as well, and i need to get a drum conversion kit, but i'm not sure just what all my options are.


Having a 200 will still be great with the original 35t 4th. I would say that it would be totally worth the extra time it takes to strip the engine back down and install the shorter 36t 4th…especially this time of the year. It's still cold enough outside that it's not prime riding temperatures. So it's not like it's going to cut into your riding season.

On paper, a gearing calculator will show that you'll lose a couple mph on your top speed, but in reality it will add a couple mph. Scooter west has them in stock.
https://www.scooterwest.com/4th-gear-vnx2-performance-shorter-4th-gear-for-p200e-77-83-36-teeth-178124.html?srsltid=AfmBOooYPhIu2PyiejaijCk8ouX9A24IyQVMgsPbgpDwYAglng8uRdyK

SIP drum brake seating and Pinasco drum with good brake pads

I still have the pogo fork on one of mine and I prefer the ride of that one more. I do have fake hips though so the softness of the ride is better for that at least.

I used the parts of the scooter's original VNB5 engine to do the 8 inch's conversion : back plate, wheel hub axle, brake drum. A pair of new brake pads, a new oil seal (be careful to choose the correct one), and that's it.

Regarding the 4th gear, I did my homework and did some research. I used an excel program to help me visualise the gap between each gear, which is cool is that you can customise everything according to your engine …
I based my rpms on a dyno graph I found online. On the left the 36t, on the right the 35t. As you can see, the 35th allows you to gain only 100rpm compared to the 36t. With the original 4th gear, there is no gap between the 3rd and the 4th, you can cruise at 5000rpm, engaged the 4th and still have enough power to pull.

Moreover, the Allstate is 56lbs lighter than the P200, so I am not worried this scooter is gonna be a lot of fun to ride !

I was visualizing the same thing Whodatschrome!

Chocolate 92, the figures on paper don't always work in the real world. The short 4th has been proven to give a higher top speed. If your engine has enough power to stay at a given rpm to pull that long 4th than sure. Most of the time rpms drop enough when shifting into 4th that the engine loses the power to accelerate through the that gap. Hope yours can do it but you'll let us know after you ride it.

I've experienced this with the cvt on my Malaguti. Plenty of power but if the engine isn't on the pipe at the correct rpm, acceleration and top speed falls and makes for a boring ride.

For sure simulations don't always match the reality, this is a tool I mostly use to calculate the gear ratio for my Lambrettas and has already proven its usefulness.
Let's see how it goes after the first ride, to be honest I am too lazy to reopen the engine just to change a gear … even if I have a good 2 months at least before the start of the season.

butt dyno experience can often be different!

Nothing beats accurate instrumentation and a GPS. 😉

Since you've got it all together, you could give it a try as is. When I rebuilt my mostly stock 200, I kept the stock gears even though I knew about the short 4th. I wanted to see how the original build rode.

I found that there is a noticeable gap between 3rd and 4th. It didn't bother me. Third gear has you covered from puttering around city streets to out on the open road, but you have to rev it out past the point where you would instinctively shift. Something I would have stopped noticing had I continued riding it that way.

The next time I had the cases open, I put in a short 4th. I like it better. 4th is now available at that normal shift point with no perceived loss of speed. I put one in my Malossi 221 sport build as well.

You have more going on with your primary+8" wheels, etc. You can always change it up at a later time.

That sticker is part of the line card, basically the build sheet that specs out what it gets and where it goes.

The frame looks sweet! I also find restoring the old paint bikes rewarding.

By the way, this scoot with a big P series engine in it -- if you're keeping it on 8" wheels, it could be a great candidate for the 60/8 Club

Probably a piece of cake, actually. The speed trial IS a bit wild on the smaller wheels and I don't necessarily endorse it for everybody out there with an 8" bike.

Thanks for your feedback, I am quite surprised by the difference between the theory and the reality, 100rpm shouldn't be noticeable (or hardly) … but you live you learn, I will add a 36t gear in my next order and put it on my to do list (after a bunch of stuff I have to take care of prior).

Of course I will keep the 8" wheels, but let's put it on the road first and then try to break the sound barrier. I don't know if you have ever travel in Quebec, but the poor conditions of the roads is not an invitation to drive fast, especially after winter season !

I do know Montreal after several visits over the years and I can imagine what happens to the road surface because it's the same here in Massachusetts. These potholes are murder on all vehicles but especially 8" wheels!

I used to live in Coaticook and commute to work in New Hampshire every day. Thankfully not on a scooter.

Very close to Sherbrooke where I live !

I rebuilt the fork with new bearings, wheel axle, stiffer spring, and a new brake drum from SIP. Compared to the Rally fork, it's waaaaay softer, I can compress it by hand.

Moving on : the fork, main stand, engine and head set have been installed. It was a pain in the ass to put the lock since the upper bearing race was already on, but I managed to find a clever solution

I cleaned the tank, it came out nice it was just surface rust.

Ok guys we have a pulse ! Everything works except for the front light …

https://youtube.com/shorts/e-R0pDo3ljI?si=hd21k1FH8hb9BbWc

And the project is completed, final shots after a good clean and a coat of wax.

I have to replace the speedo bezel because the one I got from SIP is ugly, it's not near the shape of the original one and different than the one they advertise on the website. I bought a second one just to be sure but I received the exact same piece of crap ... I am more and more disappointed by the quality of products SIP is selling.

Anyway, it's not the most well preserved example out there, but I love the patina. Just need to pass a mechanical inspection, get it registered and it will be road legal. Can't wait !

Wow, well done, exactly what I would have tried for.

If it runs as good as it looks, I would say it's PERFECT!