Modern Vespa

Thanks for the test run update! Results look good! I did buy a big bag of citric acid and washing soda

I'll have to get more sooner than later. I was only able to make up about a gallon with what I bought as the sample.

It's definitely getting the job done so now I need to decide if I want to figure out options for doing some of the larger parts, or just go with fire+wire brush+Ospho like I've used in the past.

Final rust removal update. it turns out the fuel tap wasn't completely blocked up like I thought, so the gas tank partly filled while it was soaking today.

After about five or six hours with NO prep, you can see the line where the rust remover sat versus the rest of the tank.

Nice!

Very nice, I will have to do the same thing on my Serveta tank, will borrow your receipe

I think GeekLion is planning to dip an entire GL frame in this, which will be interesting to see. Other than requiring a LOT of mix, I see no reason it won't work at this point.

It's also worth noting there are three options for the base:
- Sodium Carbonate (Washing Soda) -- 40g
- Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) - 63g, which I used because it's super-cheap and I knew I could throw the extra in the refrigerator if I didn't need it
- Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda) -- 30g

I may look at Caustic or Washing Soda for my next batch, depending on what costs look like for larger quantities than my POC, which only made about a gallon or so.

The question I have is what container/contraption will fit the frame? I guess you could use a kiddie pool? Lay it on one side, then the other, then flip it to submerege the legshield? (We want video.)

Doing a little spreadsheetery since I need more mix to fill my bucket, Washing Soda is the most cost-effective option for smaller quantities, costing $0.10/gallon. That cost collapses to one cent per gallon if you don't mind buying a 40lb pail of Caustic Soda, but that's enough for 150 gallons, so the cost basis isn't *actually* in your favor unless you're basically building a giant dipping tank.

Thus, for most of us mere mortals, who are probably looking at mixing up a five gallon bucket, The $15.99 caustic soda and $19.99 Citric Acid (so $36 all in) is the best bet for five gallons of mix with about a gallon worth of extra ingredients for next time.

I was thinking something like a kiddie pool as you're describing. Or build a custom frame that roughly matches the shape, then put a plastic liner in it. You'd either have to deal with flipping the frame (with a plastic sheet full of water in it) if you wanted to do halves, or just make it deep enough to fit the whole thing.

I actually think that the flipping option might make more sense, albeit with greater potential for disaster, just because I'll bet the volume required for the whole frame (you're talking two feet deep at that point) would get rapidly out of hand.

I was originally thinking about submerging my rusty vb1 frame in a plastic 55 gallon drum, but i didn't want to remove the paint along with the rust. And i actually didn't ever check to see just how much of the frame could fit inside that drum either. So it might only partially fit.

Maybe one of those plastic cement mixing troughs?

This topic sounds more and more like Breaking Bad with each reply!

Emphasis on "Breaking" since it's one of my threads.

I ran another test, which I'm now re-running, and that's how effective the mix is if you just put a wet paper towel on an area, similar to applying paint stripper and then covering it with plastic.

I tried it and it looks like it worked, so for people working on larger parts, e.g. a cowl or mudguard, who don't want to mix up massive batches, they may have an alternative, with the tradeoff being that much of the mix will be "consumed" since you can only get so much back out of a paper towel.

More to come on this.

My main focus is on treating the rust inside the tunnel, but there are other areas to consider: inside floor board supports, inside seams, etc. Perhaps not the whole frame needs to be submerged. I have 2 different ideas:
1: block up the openings in the frame and fill the tunnel with solution. Could do the lower part and the upper part in 2 stages.
2: Build or buy a shallow containter (kiddie pool), that will hold enough solution to be higher than the center tunnel; then submerge the frame/floorboard section, then rotate frame to repeat the process for the lower portion. The exterior rusty parts can be done by hand(not submerged).

*apologies for the threat hijack. I'll update my own thread one the process moves ahead

No need to apologize. I think it's all squarely on-topic right now.

Nice thanks. Science is fun!

All that said... it would be a fun adventure to build a vat big enough to soak the whole entire frame in one shot. MosDef would get in all the crevices that way

Also think about it, this mixture you can re-use quite a lot, even if you mix a large amount, you can pour it into containers and keep it for later use, is this your last scooter rebuilt ?

I made a gallon of mixture, I de-rusted a lot of things and it is still going strong.
Think about the amount you save compared to the real and less effective Evaporust, kilograms of citric acid and soda is nothing compared to

Agreed, Colin. But there's a big difference between a gallon (or even five gallosn) and 55+ gallons

Ya go to church? Google search "how to build a baptism tank".

He's just de-rusting it, not converting it.

lol

Baptise me in 2stroke oil and send me to scooter heaven

You could build a quick easy "dipping tank" with old 2x4's and a tarp probably.

Friend of mine did something similar with a Volvo 240 wagon. Cut the roof off and built a 2x4 frame and attached a thick tarp to make a traveling pool.

I'm not joking. It was awesome. Ahhh to be young and dumb.

Exactly what I was thinking! Can build it slightly larger than a frame. Pond liner or tarp, gallons and gallons of Citrus Science Liquid - boom, rust free frame.

Yeah, a couple buddies of mine in school bought an old 3-door Suburban for $250, then cut the roof off it to make it a permanent convertible. It was school bus orange, so they painted it zebra striped with black house paint, named it "Daktari," and drove that thing until it died.

So many fun, dumb adventures in that stupid thing.

Hatari! was a great film. I loved the safari trucks that were in it.

More goodies from GeekLion arrived while I was up in Chicago. The floorboards mean that other than the tunnel cover, the frame parts are complete. I might have ordered one in the Casa Lambretta order I haven't opened yet, though, in which case it's definitely complete.

And I'm seriously digging this seat he hooked me up with. This thing is snazzy and feels like it might actually be pretty comfortable, too, which not something that seems to happen very often with Lammies for some reason.

Along with some various other bits n' bobs that I was going to have to order anyway, like a cylinder shroud, flywheel cover, etc.

Oh, and some stickers and Maple Spam, which were strategically packed into the cylinder shroud so the stickers exploded everywhere when I pulled it out of the box. Well played, sir, well played.

I guess I should get the GL sorted so I can properly focus on this thing as the weather picks up.

Gonna be a lovely ride.

If you have time and bandwidth I'd love to see lots of pics of your assembly as you go along. Hoping to learn a thing or three.

You know I'm all about the visual and video documentation.

This afternoon, I went out to the workshop to turn off the lights, which I'd left on when I was out there earlier, and somehow wound up pulling the mag flange off the Riverside's motor. No, I don't have ADD. What was the question again?

Anyways, it was pretty nasty in there.

I'm finally thinking about the Riverside again, and in particular what to do about the paint.

I have the rear floorboards and side panels that I got from GeekLion, which I'm going to have to paint in any case.

But then I got to thinking...do I *really* need to paint the rest of it (legshield/front floorboards)?

So I decided to find out. I hit some of it with buffing compound followed by polish and the results were really good. I think I'm going to roll with this approach. I'm not entirely certain what I'm going to do about the red oxide primer someone brushed onto the front, but I'm going to assume I can wet sand that off. Verrrrrry Carefully wet sand it.

Anyways, that'll leave me with less painting and more OG'ing. Of the paint, at least.

Wow, very nice result!

Yuss!
This is the way!

If you have any non-matching bits you should be able to get a paint match that is so close, that no one's gonna notice from 5 feet away.

I have lots of non-matching bits, in particular the side panels and rear floorboards. Most of the floorboard is painted with red oxide primer, too.

The frame, tank, toolbox, etc. will get some polishing, but not a big deal. It's all hidden anyway.

For those who patina. How do you handle the rough areas where surface rust has raised the paint? Sand it? Ospho it? Live with it?

I have my work cut out, but I like my plan. Now I just need to start executing.

I lightly sanded Roland, my trusty rusty P200E, then sprayed him with Owatrol.

Same treatment here : Owatrol on exposed areas

I'd approach the paint as a crusturation like I did on the vnb.

Get some single stage paint to spray the parts that don't match.

On the rust/crust on the OG paint just owatrol.

On the mismatch panels, clean, treat, spray over the primer with some single stage. You can age it as needed to match the rest of the scoot.

I have two scoots like this and both get comments about "nice original paint".

My silver/grey P and the shitbox.

I did a youtube of the shitbox vnb somewhere... will find and post.

here it is...
Blue cowl crustorated to grey around the 1 minute mark.

youtu.be/E2MrE7oYrek

I wandered out to the workshop to better document the red oxide primer that's been brushed on various sections of this thing, then decided to see how tough it was, and then...well, let's just say things got a little out of hand...

I used 400 grit with soapy water and it did a good job of taking off the primer without cutting into the blue too much. You can see a couple spots that need to be hammered out, but the primer will serve as a guide coat, especially that legshield dent, so no biggie.

The only really bad spot is under the seat, where it looks like someone tried to strip the old paint, only got the topcoat off, then brushed red oxide over it. Lucky for me that won't be visible.

They might have tried something similar on the floorboard, but I'm not too concerned about that, given that it'll have floor strips and gets beat to crap anyway.

I guess I need to pull the legshield and horncast off so I can finish the job on those, then track down some color-matched paint and get to work on the new panels.

If I do any weathering of the new side panels, it'll probably be just throwing them down the alley and letting the asphalt do the work like nature intended.

Fine work.