Modern Vespa

Boo

Boooooo

Sorry to hear it.

Way too much suckage! What a bummer....

That super sucks! Yikes on the DHL. I really admire how you remain composed at times like this. That would send me on a death blade rampage. Hope you get your parts soon. Most importantly, I want your shoulder back in the game!

There's nothing I can do about it, so I'll focus on the things I can. I'm going to spend some time tomorrow cleaning up the workshop and working on the things I can, like getting the last of the paint work across the finish line and installing the wiring harness and cables.

Today, though, I spent today fighting entropy on other scoots.

The Oi! picked up a sick-sounding rattle, which I thought it was something in the gearbox. So I pulled the chaincase cover off, which means pulling the exhaust...it's kind've a pain. The oil needed changing anyway and the chain had a lot of slack, so I tightened that up, put it all back together, fired it up...and the sound was still there. Dafuq???

Turned out, the bolts holding the flywheel fan onto the flywheel had sheared off! Dafuq???

Anyways...I had to deal with that. Fortunately, there were no unpleasant surprises there. I used the "weld a nut to the sheared off bolt" trick and it got all six of them quite handily. Then, the hardware store had the bolts I needed. So I put it all back together, fired it up, and ripped it around the neighborhood a little bit. I'm pleased to declare that all is now well.

Next, I discovered that the rear shock mount bolt on the GL had lost its nut and is working its way out. I spent some time looking for a spare, which I'm pretty sure I have, but came up empty, so that'll be a Mercato order if I can't find one by Tuesday.

Wait. Did u use the weld a nut trick?

Also. What the fkkkk?!?

How in the world did u sheer those off??!!

I used it *six* times and it worked every time You forget I'm an innovator in the field of blowing shit up.

That flywheel had easy a thousand miles on it without me even thinking about it, much less messing with it, so I truly have no idea what I did to it.

I love it when the studs come out, nice job!

Ha!
Studs are certainly out.
Nice.

Well - the only way I could imagine this sheering is all of em being loose.
But I can see the blue loctite on there - so that was a pretty good feet.

Not just anyone can sheer off multiple steel bolts with just a light weight aluminum fan. [/i]

Might want to add some mechanics gloves to the next SIP order

How could he possibly hold onto your rambunctious, bucking bronco of a P 200 if he DIDN'T have strong rough man hands like those?! Carry on Chandler. 😉

I have a theory on the sheared off M6 screws. This was my very recent experience with a very similar situation...
I was installing a vape kit on my lammy a couple months ago. When i came time to tighten up those M6 flat head screws that attach the fan to the flywheel, they started to give out. I had my torque wrench set to 14Mn, but three out of the 6 screws felt like they were stripping out. Upon closer inspection, it turned out the since the fan wheel has a tight hub centric fit over the flywheel, the taper on the flat head screws didn't center up correctly with the countersunk holes. And since the fan didn't automatically line up perfectly, the tapers of the two were a tiny bit offset (wasn't noticeable to the eye) and it caused a side load on the taper portion of the screws...which ended up putting a diagonal shear load right below the screw head. I ended up removing all of my screws and half of them were visually deformed. I threw away all 6 of them to be on the safe side.

The fan blade is lightweight enough that i'm skeptical that the screws could ever shear off from just a spinning torque load. Keep in mind that my heavy KTM 990 Adventure bike's both front and rear brake rotors are also held on by just six M6 screws. I've never heard of them shearing off when mounted correctly.

My solution was-
-replace ALL the screws with new ones.
-use a screwdriver that has a T30 torx drive to get them centered and snug a little bit at a time, tightening carefully in a crisscross start pattern.
-use a torque wrench set to 14nm.
-buy a handful of spares (like 12 or 18 of them) to throw in the tool box.

The screws cost a pinch less individually. FYI, I couldn't find anyone in the US who sold the same or even similar screw.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/screw-m6x12-mm-counter-sunk-torx-sip-by-vape_88833400

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/screw-bolt-kit-for-flywheel-m6x12-mm-counter-sunk-torx-sip-by-vape_510070Z0?usrc=vape%20kit

That's a pretty good theory.

If it was just a hair off and you torque them, the loctite would make it feel like they were seated.

With vibration and use, the fan could work on the threaded shank portion of the screw, that was already compromised by the tightening of them when not on center.

So maybe it's a combo of events.
Compromised screws from install.
Then use bearing on the compromised area.

Guess getting the holes perfectly aligned before tightening would also help - but I'd have to think about how to actually achieve that…

You actually finished up the rest of my thoughts with your reply.

I don't think the holes need to be lined up perfect perfectly before the screws get threaded in, but i would definitely be MUCH more aware when it comes to tightening them up! I personally now plan to use a torx bit screwdriver to initially hand tighten them up while making 100% sure that the tapers are lining up correctly. With as many of us installing and using the Vape kits problem free, i think this is just two isolated instances by not paying attention or being in a hurry during installation (i'm pretty sure that was what caused my screw failure).

I didn't give mine anywhere near as much attention when I installed my Vape. I didn't use a torque wrench but didn't feel like I heaved on them. Stripped the inside of the hex on a couple with the allen key. Seemed very soft to me so I replaced them, not sure what with but they've lasted a few years without touching them again.
Like the torx idea though. I found plenty of 304 stainless ones available, but get a bit anxious about stainless screws. What's the thoughts there?

Absolutely don't use stainless!! It's too soft of a metal for this application. The M6 torx screws that sip includes in their vape kits are a 10.9 grade steel.

Super curious about this c-man … 6 sheared flywheel bolts is an impressive mechanical failure.

Do you have a "before" pic of the flywheel with the sheared bolts still on?

I thought this one had the allen head bolts which were the same grade of hardness as a nice Triple Creme Brie. Turns out, they were the Torx heads. As a matter of fact, I do...from the time I forgot the Lammy flywheel nut is reverse-threaded...

In general, I'd support the theory that if the bolts were a little off, then you could have a cascading failure as the pressure point transitioned from one bolt to the next until they all failed. Even then, I'd be a bit surprised, given that when aluminum and steel fight, aluminum is not normally the one that loses. And as I said above, this motor has at least a thousand, if not a couple thousand, miles on it since I installed the ignition.

I hadn't specifically inspected the stator, but I've spent enough time looking at the carb and every time I do, I look at the spitback schmutz on the flywheel and cover and think, "I need to clean all that crap off," so I'd like to think I'd have noticed if it were shedding bolt heads over time.

Finally, the fan itself looks pretty much fine, as you can see in the original picture.

TL;DR: I got nothin' on this one.

Yeah that's what I was concerned about.

Time to step up to Parmesan Torx heads:
https://www.mcmaster.com/94414A741/

If they were zinc plated (instead of a black oxide), i would have been all over them.

I kind've like the two-tone. I'll order a bag since I have five Vapes I'll need to replace the bolts on if I'm going to commit.

I'm quite confident (like 100%) that the shank on your vape screws got deformed right where the taper begins at the head. Even though the screws might have been completely tight, they all got distorted and therefore damaged. 1000 miles later it all came to a head.


FYI, black oxide will rust pretty darn quickly. So that will actually give you a three-tone. Fine for the southern california, but not so much for the wet states.

Black oxide is holding up fine on my rims. ~3000 miles and spent the last year covered in dirt as I couldn't be bothered to clean it.

I'm in the wet side of oregon, so anything black oxide starts showing rust by the next morning. I'm not worried about them rusting out, but i just don't like the aesthetics of rust…










…says the guy who has two beat up rusty looking scooters.

Show off! They look nice though.

Snap. Had zinc on the Pinasco's originally and they looked too busy. I'm assuming those pale marks on the rim is the 'dirt' of which you speak?

So far it's good news today. My SIP package was released from customs and is now back on its way. No idea when it'll get here, but at least it's now trying to here again.

And I finished up the paint work so I can put away all the paint stuff, which frees up a lot of physical space in the workshop as well as in my head.

I had one minor painting accident with the toolbox. When I was carrying it outside to shoot the second coat, it fell off its hanger and bounced down the steps into the dirt. Fortunately, the toolbox isn't normally visible, so I just knocked off the dirt and shot the second coat. I think I pulled it off, though.

Next up is installing the fork/headset, wiring harness, and cables. Then, the legshield and mudguard go back on and I can focus on the motor.

I can't install the front wheel hub because I'm waiting on a fork spring guide rod, but I can still look at it.

I didn't exactly win any prizes painting the front hub. There were some casting marks that I tried to clean up, but still not my best work. It's still gonna look cool on the road, though.

Looks good to me!
All paint looks fantastic at a high rate of speed!

Agreed!

I'm super-happy that I've finally hit the tipping point from "taking things apart" to "putting things back together." This paint work took over three months, including the time when I was thinking I'd be able to do it patina. Not my usual project pace, for sure.

Oof.

Amazing how a moment like that happens in slow time - shortly after u think to yourself - I should be careful not to let anything swing off its hanger…

Scoots gonna look great.

Exactly this. From my perspective, it took a solid two minutes from when the hook unbent itself until it finished bouncing down the four steps of my workshop.

Excited to see the reassembly get going!

Catching up on this fine Riverside build! You are doing good work as always Those side panels look great btw Better on your scoot than hanging on my wall

Your painting skills have really improved. I started cleaning up casting marks on my 200 hubs but gave up pretty quickly. Lots of factory roughness on 70's Vespas at least. I think it adds character.

Thanks, Jesse! yeah, they were just BEGGING to have the cutouts kept white. Once I saw it, I just couldn't un-see it. Thanks! Part of it may be my skills, but a lot of it is also that I upgraded my gun and used better quality paint this time.

Regardless, I'm really happy with how it's turning out.

I recently bought a low volume low pressure paint gun that is meant to minimize overspray and work with a smaller compressor. I didn't end up using it on my last job as I had started with a harbor freight touch up gun, got in a groove and just kept going. I was under time pressure and didn't want to slow down to fuss with a new gun. I find the cheap guns tend to not work as well when you turn them down. Cheap guns are great but tend to fall apart with regular cleaning. With a decent gun, you can turn it all way down to fog in all the nooks and crannies on a scooter.

Anyway, I'm enjoying following along with your project. I like getting to the part of assembling freshly painted, clean and new parts. It's like putting together a big model kit, but you end up with a better than new scooter.

This

I like to do regular dry fits to really appreciate my progress. It also keeps me motivated.

Last night I installed the fork even though it's still missing a spring since I can do that with the fork in the bike. That let me reinstall the headset, which in turn let me start installing the wiring harness and cables.

I went in early because we had thunder which was freaking out the dogs, but I did at least get the tail light on. I'm about to be blocked on electrical by various bits (like the headset switch) from the shipment that's sitting in Frankfurt, but there's still plenty to do in the meantime.

For once, though, I think the progress looks more significant than it is.

Two things - 1) that scoot looks fantastic even though it is still in pieces. 2) The fact that you are doing such a great job despite a wonky shoulder, takes it to higher level. I salute you, sir.

Thanks! The doctor told me to not favor my shoulder and behave as I would normally, so I've taken him at his word.

Tonight, I got cables fitted and half the rear floorboard rails. I drilled (and have more to drill) mounting holes for them, which I forgot to consider before I painted. Doh.

I stuck the floorboard in place to make sure it wasn't fouling the cables or wiring harness, but it'll come back out for floor rails over the weekend. I'm making good progress now, but the stuck parts shipment is going to bring me to a screeching halt sooner than later, I'm pretty sure.