Modern Vespa

as a spin off from a question about definition of NSM.

What classic Vespa chassis models did LML produce?

Over here the are many 125 4 strokes with automatic or hand shift. What type of automatic is that?
Ditto the hand shift. I know the 2015/16 200cc is the cruciform shift box.
Also the 2015/16 125 automatic is plain Piaggio variador.
I would like to know more about the engines as well. No user/workshop/part manuals on line I can find.
The internet does not provide much info on LML. Confusing more than enlightening.

edit; just found some user manuals

Here is more about Stella/LML Auto.

P.S.
your pic not visible again.

Thanks roland87
sorry about the pic thing; shows up here ok

It provides an answer to my question: The shifties have all in the RHS of the swing arm, the automatic is cvt and has all on the LHS.

The 125 can be either, the 200 only shifty.

Over here in the south of Spain there are as new examples to be found with no damage of weathering quite easily.

Still wondering about the engines. What, if any, is Piaggio compatible.
Obviously shifties and cvt have different cases but the internals of the engine will most like be shared,

As to why/what the issues, it is fairly common knowledge over here that it is the environMENTAL add ons. It involves a lot of additional hoses for secondry air intake, crank case ventilation recirculations, fuel and fuel vap retention as well as electric automatic choke etc which make it more complicated/unreliable than a pre-cat Vespa 2 stroke.

The 125 shifty which participates in nigh every classic Vespa event has it all deleted and a Mikuni slide carb fitted.

The three plus points an LML 4 stroke has are the LowEmissionZone ´C´ sticker, better fuel economics and a disc brake.

Just like the auto PKs…
Automatic LMLs = Cancer on 2 wheels…

Petrus I'm absolutely with SaFis. The main problem with all 4 stroke LMLs is lack of spares. And all will be worse in future. For example rear brake pads for 200cc was unavailable on SIP for 2 or $9.

Automatica is technically too complex considering its performance and driving fun. Avoid it.

125 and 150 four strokes shares more engine parts with PX than the 200 so it is more reliable.

I have 200 and it is really nice, fast with low fuel consumption. Perfect for touring. On my there is already more than 60000 km on the odometer. Still running good and strong, but it needs new engine rubber mounts and I can't find it anywhere. Also there is no options with rear shock absorber - only original. Rear brake shoes as I said already. Clutch basket, plates, discs and other bits - still available on SIP but how long it will be? TBH clutch plates holds near 20000-25000 km with my not very polite riding style.

Vespa Plurimatic and LML variador are technically incomparabñe save for the ´reliability´.

Not on the market for either. My modern 125 Primavera suits it´s touring role to perfection. With the 185 kit even two up a doddle.

The 200 shifty imo doés have a old skool appeal but as you observe... spares. SIP though did buy some of the toolings so thóse parts should stay available as long as there is demand warranting reproduction.
I simply do not need it.
Just when I see
https://es.wallapop.com/item/lml-star-deluxe-200-1116601583
´see´ it as a unique time warp in the garage.

Also the disc brake ... to get a proper set on my DN would cost as much as a complete LML and apart from that would not want to do that to my neat Blue.

But no worries; an NSM needs to have the RÉNGDENGEDENG... for me *

Was nevertheless very curious about the different LML models. All clear now

* it ideally should not have indicators but it was an acceptable compromise for the Ducati ignition.

May have missed a model; the T5.
In abouts 1993 LML released the Select & Select 2 with PX150 engine and in 2012 Select 4 with 150cc 4-stroke engine, both in T5 chassis.

We got the LML "T5"s here, well a handful anyway.

Stands to reason as the Australian market was important for LML, read Piaggia as it at that time was still very much a Piaggio sub.

I think you also got what in Spain is called the TX200 but then simply as T5 with the PX200 engine, no differentiation in type.
I can imagine that even more so than in Spain the 200 power is a plus.

These are quite popular still here btw. Reliable PX200 power and the well handling T5 chassis is just that bit more comfortable.
I know of two Vespa specialist shops who use a TX as shop bike.

I expect that these will get more appreciated as the styling gets more classic, They are also getting more thin on the ground and lastly they áre rather a special chassis design.
Over here the very last version dubbed Millennium a.k.a. Time 2000 even got a disc brake. Basically a very modern scoot with eighties styling and vintage 2-stroke engine. What´s not to like.
Bit like 1000€ bills though; know they exist but never seen one.

I have a lot of info on the LMLs on my blog. I also posted some on here. You can start with this post which has links to others including some posts on this forum:

https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2023/11/ultimate-stella-automatic-info-post.html

Now to answer your initial questions: no, the LML Star / Genuine Stella Automatic scooters don't share engines or variator/transmission with any Piaggio scooter. The 2013-14 125 autos have a different engine than the 125cc Star 4T scooters, AFAIK zero compatible parts. The 2015-2017 125cc scooters are yet another different engine unique to the LML autos of those years. I have a suspicion that the cylinder, piston, rod, head, etc. are the same but I know the crankshaft and CVT are different and cannot interchange at all. The 4T auto engine was available as a 150cc, and some vendors still have the 150cc cylinder/head/piston/rod "kit" available. I have seriously considered getting one just to see if it'll fit on my 2014 because an extra 25cc would be welcome.

The automatics all have different engines from their shifty counterparts even with the same displacement. They have different ECU, different carb, different ignition, different fuel tank, everything different.

My Stellauto is currently in pieces, trying to resurrect it after the fall it took over a year ago and then a massive fuel tank rust disaster. I just need time to get it back on the road but I haven't made it a priority since I wedged my GTS250 project in there and it's been getting all of my scooter miles. I adore the Stellauto and I will get it back on the road just because it's got a fun factor that's off the charts. With the J.Costa variator and disabling the air injection solenoid plus reworking the fuel reservior doodad I am confident I can make it run reliably, which has been a chore when it has been stock. In its best days it only got about 50-55 mpg and my GTS250 has nearly 2x the displacement and over 3x the power and gets 50% better gas mileage. If these 2014 scooters had run of the mill Taiwanese scooter single cylinder EFI they would have been freaking brilliant. That Dellorto ECS is a horrible disaster that will drive you absolutely up the wall. It's nearly worth it to me to switch this bad boy over to a genuine Keihin carb with a pod filter and actual aftermarket support. I have one here and I just need to finish fabricating the throttle linkage.

thanks mr72

Both for the post and the link.

Small wonder I could not make heads nor tails of it

Read your blog post.

Makes one wonder WHÝ?!

I had the same with my old Norton Type 7. My first motorcycle. Was a simply pretty bad, typically English motor industry product; a shoe string product of tinkering/redesign older parts rather than engineering. Spares even worse. But... lóved it

Since NSM Vespas are splenty over here, I will stay WELL clear of LMLs.

Funny thing is my Stellauto is like a factory resto-mod of a PX. It has 10" wheels and front hydraulic disc brakes and a modern twist-and-go CVT and 4-stroke engine. It has most of the personality that makes a PX loads of fun with none of the annoying drawbacks.

But the fact is it's an antiquated Italian scooter design with Indian manufacturing quality and virtually zero parts or support. It basically will only last as long as the brake pads or valves or CVT parts. I have determined the only real way to keep it working is to accept that I have to ride it only very rarely, otherwise I'll quickly wear out something that can't be replaced. Half of the parts on the thing are regular PX parts so they are a dime a dozen, and the other half I have to fab myself.

Parts for my Triumphs and my Vespa are expensive and take a long time to get here but at least you can get them. Our Kymco is harder to get parts just because in USA they are pretty uncommon. But this LML/Genuine scooter is in a class by itself.

I get that resto mod. The 200 4T shifty has that fascination for me. Even went to see to possibly buy one. It ís über but the issues out-fascinate it. NSM is enough tinkering. I bought a modern 3V 125 Primavera for that reason.

Now, with enough tinkering I am nót saying unreliable because that is not it. The thing is that say 40 years old scoot is both yesteryears design ánd comes with a history of use/previous owners. Even when hardly used by first old lady owner, you have perished rubbers/plastics, oxidised connections, hardened/dried lubricants which may be worse than regularly used.
It has been observed that you need too add about 1k to the price of an NSM scoot to sort it. That was my experience tooand that was a restired one. Just done without expert knowledge of Vespa engine quirks.
Add thát to the LML indian quality and it equals to a NoNo