Modern Vespa

Today yet anóther classic vehicle event.
This time on the parking of the Casabermeja cemetery.

As usual very informal, a wonderful mix of working class cars/scoots/motorbikes with the odd more aspirational one.
As usual the Seat 600 being the red thread.
As usual everone doing pretty much as they pleased so parking was unorganised chaos working out just fine.
Same thing the ride out around the village behind the Policia Local car: Just about all came back from different sides at different times
My mate who had come on his Bultaco has overtaken the lot as he was burning his clutch pottering about
Anyway, the thread title....

Usually there are so many Vespas that you cannot distinguish the tree (model) from the forest (multitude).
Today there was but a handful and a 200DS stood parked ríght next to a PK125XL.
Yes, you can see that one coming no?!
From the front the two are véry much akin.
At the side panel the latter is indeed a bit less wide but the saddle is higher and it looked a whiff longer too.
By no stretch of imagination you would have come up with large frame vs small frame but with detachable vs integrated side panels.

Next we drove on down to the coast, to the Feria de los Pueblos (nations) in Fuengirola.
To our and at the entrance of the Spanish pavillion there stood a .... Fiat 600
After a near overdose of culture/people we flowed closer to the coast for a drink & bite on a less crowded terrace. We perambulated omto a nice square with an Italian restaurant. At the entrance of the terrace stood a ...Vespa 50 Special.
Ok, now thát is a smáll frame
Só small that the original ´Piaggio´ singe seat hump saddle looks 20% or so oversized.

Did you know that this divide for wide-, small-, large- frame went from the size of the engine swing arm and the frame where engine swing arm mounts?

So PK and Special is smallframes because both of them have similar and straight interchangeable engines.

Thanks for responding Roland.

My presence/reading here results in progressing Vespa insight. Your threads are especially informative! Every day here (and there) learn sómething Vespa

The wide vs large penny dropped yes: Wide frame - large frame and MotoVespa
Also learned that the engines of wide and large frames being sort of interchangeable because of a T5 engined wide frame:
1964 125L T5?


Did not know small frame also referred to the swing arm mounting. Large vs small was I thought literally about the latter being smaller. That it was purposeful marketing for youths and woman; powered with new smaller engine. It had húge commercoal success.
That small chassis láter evolved into not so small, more comfy for a wider (pun intended) public, which also spelled its demise.
So indeed same once small design foundation, meaning the engine compatability, just later on not befitting the monniker ´small´ frame anymore
As such I like the spot on PK-XL contradiction in terms

That PK-XL contradiction penny dropped only recently.
I totally enjoy using my P200E and the modern Primavera 125. Would lóve an 8" wide frame and/or a small frame to keep those company.
Now, looking at the latter, the developments, improvements lead me to looking at the PK as that is arguably very good, maybe the best. Point is the styling and then the growing size. Back to mý penny; the small in small frame needs be literal for mé. The original small framed 50 really rocks my boat.

When you see a PK-XL and a PX together , it makes sense that one would be discontinued.
Same thing not de-veloping (again pun intended) twó engine families.
It makes sense that it would be the smaller engine going out as the larger was the least complicated to develop for ever tighter emission legislation. The PX150 stíll pertains in some countries.

Currently learning about the ´bocolo´(piston ported) engines.
Over here the older, wide frame, MotoVespas are not rare and the enthusiasts are divided. Some are originality anoraks, collectors and other are more into ríding them meaning practical mods to engine upgrade/swap. The mods have my current attention.

Btw tomorrow a classic vehicle event here in our mountain village.
We will most likely roll the P200E (DN) out and a friend will attend with his PK125 XL daily runabout.
Will try snap some next to each other.

Just a note for clarity... "Large frame" engines are not interchangeable with "wide frame" engines.

The real old wide frame vespas... (Think early 1950's) require crazy modifications to mount more modern large frame engines.

See here:
1958 VB1 200 wideframe Briar Blue project

And then of course the same goes for smallies. You would have to do major mods to the frames to swap engines between large and small frames.

Our old friend Adastra wrote a nice primer on the models in his sticky at the top of this forum. Info about halfway down in his first post under the heading "Consider the right model for you"

Things to Consider before Buying a Vintage Vespa

FWIW

thanks for giving some direction to a wandering mind

"Smallframes" - By that we mean the original smallies, mostly 50s and some 90s and 125 Primaveras w/ a few other variations thrown in like the Sears Bluebadge and the Holy Grail SS90 with its factory cutdown legshield and skinny handlebars AND the considerably different, slightly larger PKs, including a few unfortunate models w/ belt drive, but same chassis. And the MotoVespa models which follow a few of their own rules.

I now usually ride my mostly fresh and minty PK125XL but just spent a week on our Greek island Kefalonia and back on my main island ride - an older 50s w/ mild souped up 125 which is faster than the PK, and everything on it works well. But it's also more 'primitive' IMO, the PK is just more evolved and I feel more confident on it. I know I am more comfortable and relaxed on longer rides. The early PK50s used the same fork as older smallies, maybe until they used them all up. But all the 125s and later the 50s as well got the new fork that seems a nice improvement so maybe that's a big part of it.

Here are most of the smallies I've been involved with lately. The gray & blue 50s is Yanni's, it belonged to his dad who bought it new - he came by to do some tire work. The blue & white PK at the other end is an older PK50 and has the same fork as Yanni. It belongs to old friend Eleftharios who bought it new. It had a clogged muffler. The 50s next to Yanni is mine and I upgraded its fork to a newer PK.

Thanks V oodoo. Getting that now too yes

As to the confidence thing I am amazed how nice the DN steers. I feel more confident on it than with the new Primavera 3V 125.
That observed the handling is not the forte nor charm of any Vespa is it?!
I would like a third to compliment the two mentioned and prefer either a smallie as possible or a cool 8" model.

Back to the handling, modern rubber makes a wórld of difference

PK 50 XL for Italian market have same fork as V-range.
PK 50 XL for German market have P 125 ETS or "PX EFL" (lets call it so) fork and brakes.
Same story with PK and PK S.

I also saw PK 50/125, PK 50/125 S and Automatica with "pre-EFL"(lets call it so) front brake.

and tatáá´; somethin(s) new again; the first time I consciously read ´EFL´.

Not much info on what it stands for* nor what the technical consequences are.
If an English acronym then it might be Electric Fuel Light but it is not and it seems related to front disc brake and/or gear box and Roland now mentions front fork...
The wonderful world of Vespas

Petrus I may be wrong in some moments, but here is what I know about EFL.
It is 2nd generation of P(X).
Comparing to mk.I P EFL have different:
- gear box
- selector box
- internal drive shaft seal
- hubs
- fork and swing arm
- front brake
- horncover
- glovebox
- handlebar cover
- speedo
- ignition lock and fork lock in one lock
- switches
- grips
- rear light
- seat
- fuel tank cap
- centre floor mat
- cowls opening mechanism
- badges
- rear bumper
- mudguard crest
- EFL have fuel gauge and due to this - fuel tap without reserve position.
- all EFL have only electronic ignitions

Much obliged roland87 for the info and the time it took to share it.

Photo of my ´82 PE and an ´87 PK125; who´s the small one now

Petrus nice scooters!

Thanks Roland, the PK is the daily of Juan, the local ceramics artist/teacher.
It was leaking from the petrol cap when topped up he said. He could not see, figure out anything wrong but it kept popping up on one side when tightened as it should. One tap was bent too far in so, screwdriver, pushed it out, fitted as intended.
If only all was so simple