Modern Vespa

I am an ardent sidecar fan. Have worn out three MZ ones, nearly put a bonfire to a Dnepr MT16 and now have a Nimbus.

Single track vehicles with a side thing are an engineer´s gotspe and inherited from the hay days of bicycling. On a bicycle the impossible geometry is nigh irrelevant because of the low speed and limited human power.

As power, speed, resitances increase, so do the wonderful idiocracies.

This brings me to two questions:
1. why have by far the most Vespa combinations the chair mounted on the left?
2. why does the sidecar wheel on most (one Cosa did have lead) have no lead?

My best guess is they designed for countries where the traffic drives on the left, putting the sidecar on the left relieves the sidecar passenger from facing the oncoming traffic. Which, of course, works in reverse where the traffic drives on the right. Just my guess.

Quite but in Italy driving on the right has been mandatory since the 1920s.

The engine sitting on the rhs would be a reason to fit the chair on the left albeit road safety compromising.

Let me answer this in a slightly different way. Vespa/Piaggio likely produces sidecars mounted left and right in numbers which reflect the markets into which they will ultimately be shipped. Of course people can buy scooters from overseas or other random countries and end up with a left mounted sidecar. The location of the motor has never proven to be problematic for me.

Ok, so if the engine location is not an issue than I am still miffed why many Vespas sold in right side driving counties have the chair mounted left.

Over here in Spain p.e. basically all pre P are lefties and I wondered why.
Same thing the wheel lead.
Just curious.

Modern, as in 4 stroke cvt, Vespas with sidecar are VERY rare here. Very
imo. Those are right hand mounted, with chair wheel lead.

I'm not aware of any state (or country, for that matter) that prohibits one side or the other. I think right or left mounted sidecars are going to be legal all things being equal. Therefore you may find sidecars on either side being bought and sold in most places. Living in the US where we drive on the right side of the road, I wouldn't own a left side mounted sidecar. That's just my personal preference.

No legal requirement untill very recently. Now it is for new registration. although weirdly enough RHD cars are not prohibited.

btw have searched the forum for sidecar threads and THE one gem which stands out is a post from greasy125 :

at any rate, i set up an ET4 with a sidecar (against my better judgement) and it was never *right*. sure it ran down the road, but it was always a little funny.

Sums it up. A job done right: They are funny and never go ´right´. There is no way they go straight as the óne balancing situation in real world driving always changes.
It is what I meant with engineers gotspe. And Vespa wheel size/suspension adds insult upon injury.
A sidecar needs to be driven by driver inputs all of the time. That makes it so uttahly engaging.
It also explains why they are so hard on especially front tyres. More so because the flat tread tyres they shoúld have are unobtanium.
Ah and fuel economy is a contradiction in terms

Lifting the chair is even more fun as the sreering changes over from direct (car like twin track) steering to indirect single track cone steering.

Ahhhhh if only they were not só bl@@dy expensive.

I've said it before... driving a Vespa with a hack is like driving a beligerant, intoxicated go-kart*. But, if you know what your getting into, and you have like a 5 car garage ('cause they take up sooo much space).... sure, why not.


*An obvious exception would be Ned's leaner sidecar. But generally speaking...

Spot on

The lighter the more nervous. Ditto smaller wheels. The heavier/more power, the more exagerated the upsetting reactions.

For mé it is the charm of them. Lóve the engagement but it definitely is an acquired taste and an uninitiated will have a learning curve ánd will need time to adjust to a stupid concept which does not behave as a car nor as a motorcycle/scooter.
At least with a scooter the power/weight/resistances means that the speeds will be limited so the seriousness of mishap consquences tend to be limited as well.

Relativity of ´speed´ applying to cruising to with fuel use going the opposite way; ÚP.

Over here in the EU it has become VERY difficult to get one newly registered. Either on an NSM which was homologagted by the factory of a new one.

As to the size... well, larger than a solo scoot buy not as large as a mid size car. Width at most 170-175 m.(for a modern one) and length about same as the scoot.
The limited weight and stable tripod means very easy manhandling/manouvering.

I'm still waiting for CM2 to enter the chat...

Here´s a ficha tecnica of a ´69 160 (with 200 motor).
It has rhs chair, chair wheel with lead and apparently (load capacity) braked.
Only 148 kgs dry and look at the max load

I know a guy in New Orleans who rides pretty much exclusively with a sidecar (mounted right side) even though he has many other scoots. Can't deny the extra utility value but I find them unwieldy, clumsy even. And yeah, 40 mpg is unattractive to say the least.

I used to ride them as daily/commute for economic reasons (fue was way cheaper back then, cars less frugal) and life style.
Functionality is ok but e modern small EU hatch back beat it hands down.
Unfortunately it falls under mandatory crash helmet (and gloves) law which is a shot in the practicality even with the 300 sunny days/year here.

Today´s prices make them uneconomic regardless of fuel non-economy.

A Vespa sidecar would be solely for fun.

The original fitment by the factory was..... at the left
This is odd because even pre WW2 is was already customary to mount the chair on the right for RHS traffic and vv. for LHS.
Not found any official reason sofar. All I can find sofar it sééms to be the starter pedal.

´Busy´ with sorting my ´39 Nimbus combination out.

Also enjoying the southern european life style with the DN.

Add the two up and one gets a Vespa sidecat itch

Searching the forum the Vespa combo seems to be less than loved
Over here they are highly prized. Literallly so highly priced too.
A crucial factor is red tape: Under the 21st C. EU regulations it is basically impossible to newly register a combination.
Add the popularity of wedding photos with a Vespa hack and go prices.

There was a GTV300 with matching chair for sale this autumn but I did not have the slush fund.
Even though I like a vintage a lót more as they are more euhmmm.... ´engaging´, they are a bit overly exciting concerning no-brakes. Over here just about all have been fitted with a P/PX200 engine so not thát slow but thus even more scary on the brakes.

I do wonder though why Vspa chairs are not more popular on MV/NSM forums.
Most Vespas are not bought for commuting or fast touring are they?
Most NSM Vespas are not bought for their excellent handling/brakes ara they?
So what is the ´thing´ with Vespa sidecars? The dog will sure lóve it!

Here the ficha tecnica of one currently for sale at ´reasonable´ money.

Save an even newer one with disc brake it should be as practical as a Vespa combination comes.

The total width of the PX200 combination is only 1.39 m. which is less than twice my P200E so easily within parking space of two Vespas.
Track width 1.045 m.

I don't get the sidecar thing at all. People come on here with a sidecar, first thing they usually want to know is how to make it go faster (pro tip: ditch the sidecar).
However it can be done right, and here is that method. See you next month when you've finished reading.

Vintage vespa with sidecar (**Now In Technicolor ! **)

Thanks for the link Ginch.
A leaning combo is unfortunately not an option here as there is no way to get it approved.

A sidecar is an @chronism from bicycles in the 19th century. There is nó technical excuse for it. Expecting a Vespa with one to be anything like fast does not get that.
It is however THÉ most involving motor vehicle: It does not go straight without driver input and with driver input it is nót same thing in = same thing out
As such there is imo thrill enough at the lower speeds

Suffering from sidecar driving withdrawal symptoms
Fingers x-ed I have the Nimbus on the road again before I buy a Vespa combination

seriously tempted

Very nice!
Question....is there a reason why the sidecar is on the Left side?
Seems to make more sense (to me) if it's on the right side. I guess it depends on what side of the road one rides on.....

It is the ham question yes.
See the opening post.

All chairs fitted by the factory were on the left even though traffic in Italy was on the right since over a century, making a right mounted chair most logical.
The PX150 Iris above is OEM 1983.
No official info available nor forthcoming.
From what I have gathered the reason is the engine (and starting pedal) being at the right.

Nów they are mounted on the right for right driving countries (Italy) as that has become a mandatory requirement.
There is a handful of GVT 250/300 combos in Spain all with a thus righ mounted chair.

I have chalked it up to one more sidecar quirk, in his case OEM Vespa specific

I always mount my 2-wheelers from the left side so it seemed odd to me.

The indicator is criminal.

That too, me too. Decennia of habit x two ti hip joints make mounting from the right... interesting. Especially the mountain bicycle as that is hígh.
But in general it is like LHD and RHD steering wheel. The chair on the curb side is safer and for that reason now mandatory in the EU and UK for new registrations.

1. Vespa, BMW (some models) and Royal Enfield are the only ones that approve fitting a sidecar over here.

2. There is an Indonesian firm making ´chairs´ for Vespas which are in theory accepatable for homologation by Spanish vehicle inspection.

https://ottorichsidecar.com/sidecars/

´NOTE :
The installation of the sidecar is designed to match with existing bolts position. No drilling is needed. This will maintain the original condition of the Vespa.´

3. I have tuned our 2019 Primavera to 185 cc. which would make it as suiteable as a lightweight Vespa gets.

The dollar being weak against the €uro makes it even ´affordable´.

Ergo it máy be feasable to get a sidecar legalised for the Primavera

To be continued.

Yes; just right imo.

and here´s a MotoVespa 150cl. Mostly modern PE/PX yet without blinkers.

went to the coast for a sort of beach visit, practically passing the sidecar seller.
Very, véry nice indeed. One kick start, ticks over, nó clutch noise.
It´s an ´83 CL with Ducati ígnition and sidecar homologated in vehicle docs!
Rather cool it is a no indicators model even though for the rest it is PE chassis et al

Asking 7k€ which is rather a lot of money. For over here though it does not get better/cheaper for a Vespa sidecar

What makes a CL a CL?

Véry good question.
The engine/chassis# prefix is CL9 so that identifies it but whý?
As far as I have found it is the P150E without indicators.
No other luxuries either.
Ah and the instrument panel is not the modern looking P/PX but more classic looking oval akin Italian sprint/rally. See the nacelle and chrome light witch cover too.
A bit weird retro equiped modern P.

The reason seems to be economics. Both sales price and road tax.
150 was and is as 125 but 200 more than twice road tax.
The 25cc extra is 1 hp more whereas 125 to 200 only 2.
Uplift in sales price made 150 almost exclusively sidecar hack.
Sofar not found anything about the engine differing from a P(X)150.

All in all the 150CL seems to be a basic MotoVespa special like the 75 Junior which is a PK without indicators.


p.s. All in all like the scoot a lot. Going to count dimes as I have a marriage with charming company coming up. Then probably make a lowish offer and see what happens. She is nót going to be happy with another bike/scoot so best before marriage no?! like a parting shot

A wise man once said to me... "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"

Nope, not open to offers.

That's nice, I like it.

Congratulations!!

If only: Not bought it. Yet? Too pricey. Thinking about that,

No... congratulations on your engagement!

The Seller or your Charming Company?....and Congrats!

Ok, thanks

Charming company is
Needs no offers; is simply always game.

Today we were down to the coast for yet another classic vehicles event. (photos in Andalucía thread)
Great route driving down, incorporating the A-7000 over which last week the Rally Subida a Colmenar (Montes de Málaga) was held. I drift my little RWD mid engined cabrio up there with gusto and she is all smiles.

At lunch we were talking, joking; you know routine stuff; cars, dresses, sex, vespas and she among other crackers observed ´You go buy another Vespa, I´ll buy another dress...´