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Hello,

Just bought a 2009 MP3 500. I thought this kind of vehicle will be the key to finally convince my wife to start riding. Been trying for 20 years, she is afraid of losing balance when maneuvering at low speeds because she is not very muscular and every motorbike feels heavy.

So I was pretty disappointed to find out the tilting only engages upon request. I was kinda expecting it to lock automatically at low speeds, or at least give me that option. So now she is worried she might one day forget to engage the tilt lock and fell (she is short enough that she can't reach the street while seated).

So is there any retrofit DIY instruction somewhere, or is there a kit made that would enable automatic locking of the tilting mechanism below certain speed?

Or any other useful ideas?

Thanks!
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Incredibly dangerous to do that! Roll over a pothole when it's engaged and the bike WILL fall over.

MP3 isn't the model for her by the sound of it. A much lighter one like the LX150 or some other manufacturer's small lightweight scooter would be much more suitable.

The MP3 isn't more stable. It does have huge safety advantages in the wet or on rough roads, and when the rider is properly accustomed to it, the tilt-lock becomes another very convenient (not necessarily safer) function.
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Riding is not for everyone. If its been 20 years and no luck convincing then maybe let it go.

Is she up for being a passenger? Lots of trikes on the market like Can-Am. A Niken or Piaggio Mp3 aren't the best as the passenger seats way up high.

There us also the Honda CTX 700cc with a very very low center of gravity and a low 28in seat height. This makes the bike feel weightless as its very eay to keep upright and stable when stopped or pushing it around. Low seat height and center of gravity is also very passenger stable. Has a DCT automatic transmission too so no clutch.
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jimc wrote:
Incredibly dangerous to do that! Roll over a pothole when it's engaged and the bike WILL fall over.

At 5mph the bike is will stop within 3ft. Any pothole happens to be exactly in that 3ft -> bad luck I guess. And if she decides not to stop anymore, the lock feature disengages automatically - so now worries there either.
OP
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pinheadh78 wrote:
Riding is not for everyone. If its been 20 years and no luck convincing then maybe let it go.

Is she up for being a passenger? Lots of trikes on the market like Can-Am. A Niken or Piaggio Mp3 aren't the best as the passenger seats way up high.

20 years is the interval. I did not continuously try this for 20 years.

Can-Am and other trikes are worst of both worlds: you lack the comfort of a car but you still can't lean into turns or squeeze into narrow places.
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66bavareze wrote:
At 5mph the bike is will stop within 3ft. Any pothole happens to be exactly in that 3ft -> bad luck I guess. And if she decides not to stop anymore, the lock feature disengages automatically - so now worries there either.
So supposing you're just rolling along very slowly in heavy traffic? The MP3 when tilt-locked is incredibly tricky to steer, even at those slow speeds.

ISTR that the first prototypes experimented with auto-lock - and very, very quickly discarded the idea as infeasible. It'd never in a million years get homologation and approved for road use.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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you have alot of misconceptions on the MP3 and from reading your replies the MP3 is not a vehicle for you or your wife, highly recommend NOT getting one for her. Your asking for issues.
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Our machines are nothing like the CanAm which is basically a three wheeled open topped car. Our Piaggio MP3s are motorcycles with an extra wheel and require the same riding skills as any other motorcycles
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Molto Verboso
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
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Molto Verboso
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Think of the tilt lock as a short term parking aid that substitutes for the traditional side stand instead of a rider aid.

With the tilt lock on the bike handles unpredictably and dangerously like a wheelbarrow.

Tried using the lick once while coming to a stop, early on in mp3 ownership, and it almost made me crash into the curb.

I only use the tilt lock when the bike is left for brief periods such as shopping runs
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Maybe a bit off topic, but is there a downside to parking it on tilt lock for longer periods?

My wife recently bought a MP3 and can't seem to manage pushing the bike off the centerstand. So she basically uses tilt lock all the time.
During winterstorage we will probally put it on the centerstand, but during summer it will all the time be on tilt lock.
She rides the bike about once every 2 weeks. Just for fun rides.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Leaving the tilt lock under hydraulic pressure for extended periods will put extra stress on what is already the Achilles heel of the MP3
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I would regularly leave the tilt lock engaged while on center stand for weeks. Its causes more stress on the system but it's not going to ruin the bike super fast either. The most common reason I dropped my MP3 and broke a turn signal off was coming off the center stand and forgot the tilt lock was disengaged.

If you have easy access to Mp3 dealer or repair services and parts then you can take more risks. If anything breaks you would be able to fix it. Otherwise if parts and service is far away then take fewer risks.

I suspect the differences in experience with tilt lock degradation come down to weather and storage method. The California Coastal climate I'm in is mild with mild winters and summers so nothing is subjected to the extremes of hot or cold. My bike wa also stored outside but under a well ventilated motorcycle cover designed specifically for motorcycle storage. If you live somewhere with more extreme such as mountains with freezing cold winters or more inland where it can be super hot would cause things to degrade faster or seize up.

Otherwise, that's just my theory why some folks experience elevated maintenance needs when using the tilt lock-lock too much.
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My Fuoco was in the UK and never garaged - used it for 40,000-odd miles year-round in all weathers. It was always parked with tilt-lock on even if centre stand was used.

Never had any trouble with the tilt-lock.
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Molto Verboso
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A mild climate can only help especially to avoid rust, but IMO service is the key to longevity (in all vehicles).

In the case of the tilt lock, flushing the fluid every 2 years and checking fluid level every 6 months are the bare minimum
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Agree on the check - but I disagree on automatic replacement every two years - and I disagree with doing that with brakes as well.

If the fluid still looks as clean and clear as when it went in (and it should!) then leave well alone. It only need changing if it goes darker (moisture contamination) - and that's only really important for braking systems. The tilt-lock isn't going to suffer from brake-fade! However, some components might not like moisture contamination, so why not change the fluid if it looks dirty.

A dealership will take a completely different tack of course - there's liability and reputation to consider, so of course they will (and should) do the fluid changes. The home mechanic? They can judge the situation differently.
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Molto Verboso
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Judging by "looks clean" is not good practice

In many vehicles, cars and bikes, the fluid inside the lines will deteriorate and suffer far more than the fluid in the reservoir

And given the trivial cost of brake fluid and the vital function it serves, why even roll the dice?

Just like engine oils, brake fluid expires based on distance AND time.
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By the looks of the color the fluid has not been replaced for a long time.
The airfilter is spotless. I presume the bike has not been used for al long time by the prevous owner.
I bought all parts and tools for a complete service but finding the time is an issue
So I have replaced the engine oil and I am afraid the rest will have to wait for the winter.

I use a vacuumpump for bleeding brakes. Can I also use this for flushing the tiltlock system?
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sbaert wrote:
In many vehicles, cars and bikes, the fluid inside the lines will deteriorate and suffer far more than the fluid in the reservoir
As the pipe or hose is fully isolated from the atmosphere, how does it get moisture in it or other contaminants - more than the reservoir which has a breathing hole?
Quote:
Just like engine oils, brake fluid expires based on distance AND time.
But you'd be quite happy using oil from a can bought from the shop that has no date on it?

I call FUD.
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Then please explain how and why clutch slave cylinders leak.
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sbaert wrote:
Then please explain how and why clutch slave cylinders leak.
I've never had a clutch slave cylinder leak - but I've had brake slave cylinders leak on cars before now. 30-year-old rubber seals are certainly prone to failure!

That's down to old rubber aging out - not some sort of weird corrosion caused by some sort of corrosive contaminant in the fluid.
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I understand your discouragements, but I would still like to proceed with experimenting.

At the minimum, I would like to reverse the functionality of the logic, i.e. make it auto lock the tilting unless I press the switch, in which case locking should be released. This is because it's far more frequent for me to want tilt locked when stopping than viceversa.

I'm intrigued how inconvenient the control system is. So I can't hold the switch pressed left, to lock it as soon as the yellow light comes on. I need to wait for the yellow light to flash and then I have just about 2 seconds to lock it before I don't need it locked anymore because I'm already stopped and supporting it with my legs.

And in order to be able to catch that time interval, I need to refocus my eyes from distant vision to close vision and aim down to catch the moment the dash light begins to blink. And while remaining focused on the dash, I obviously can't be focused on the road as well, so I have to hope nothing changes, such as a door opening or someone walking in my path.

Am I seeing things wrong?
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I think you're doing too much looking! Back when I used my Fuoco as a daily driver for some years, I almost never looked at the display or ever put my feet down when coming to a stop. You get to know exactly the right time to engage the tilt-lock.
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Molto Verboso
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Sounds like OP is having unrealistic expectations or looking at things backwards.

Speaking of backwards, tried steering with the handlebar behind you? 😉
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Like Jimc, I have never had any issues with my Tilt Lock either. I`ve had it parked all Winter long with it engaged and never had any problems. I always put it on the Center Stand after locking the Tiltlock then I unlock it to let off any
pressure the System may have and lock it again and leave it locked over Winter or until I ride out agian.

Fred
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HI 66bavareze
Automating the tilt-lock to auto-engage is unsafe and will likely lead to the bike falling over or getting stuck in an awkward position. Worse yet if this happens in traffic such as stop-n-go on the highway or major road with large vehicles.

But I do like a technical challenge, so as a thought exercise, here is what I would have done to automate this in theory.

1) The tilt-lock allow lamp on the gauge cluster glows when the bike is at low enough speeds to engage the tilt lock. Tap into this.
2) Posi-Tap into the circuit that feeds the tilt-lock lamp when it flashes
3) Use that as the ACC signal to trigger a momentary switch that is tied into the same circuit as the tilt-lock switch to enable tilt-lock.
4) Link the reverse of the switch to your throttle to unlock OR rely on the existing auto un-lock when throttle is applied.

For this to work, step 3 has to be a momentary switch as the tilt-lock lamp stays lit the full time the tilt-lock is engaged or available.

You would also need a very obvious and easy to reach over-ride switch to disable this link.

Please post photos and circuit diagrams if you get this working if nothing else because I'm curious if its actually possible.

But to reiterate, there is a reason the MP3 does not have auto-lock; its unstable, dangerous, and likely to create an accident than prevent one.
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The momentary feeling of helplessness at not being able to tilt making a correction while coming to a stop, takes some practice.

Try engaging the tilt lock as soon as the light comes on, if you can manage coming to a stop without having near misses consistently.
Unlocking when your brain is freaking is a tall ask.
I would suggest a momentary switch you have to hold on for autolock to be active
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I've been an embedded hardware/software engineer for about 40 years working with all kinds of sensor based systems. One can definitely do an auto lock system just as assuredly one should not. There are three conditions required for the system to work from the manual (in addition to the seat being weighted):
1) Accelerator completely disengaged.
2) RPM of the engine at less than 2,500 rpm.
3) Vehicle speed below 10 km/h (~6mph.)

Here's some potential scenarios:

If one is coming up to a red light or stop sign, and requirements 2 & 3 are met, should 1, accelerator be completely disengaged, be required. At what point should the accelerator be required to be disengaged; is the rider is allowed ride to where they want to stop? What if the rider is slowing down for a vehicle in front, a pedestrian, a pothole, a slick spot, or ??? with no intent on stopping? Should the auto lock come on? What if a low speed steering maneuver is needed to avoid hitting the pedestrian or pothole; will auto lock coming on cause an accident? These are the same kind of decisions a self-driving car has to deal with.

What about condition 3? Should the lock come on at 9.9km/h or 1.0km/h or ?? What if one is going round a curve very slowly so the auto lock engages?

Think of all the inputs the rider uses to make the determination whether they want the turn the lock on when moving; these must all be accounted for in any auto-locking system. An auto lock system must make all these same determinations and be infallible so the manufacturer doesn't get sued. Electrically implementing an auto lock is pretty easy, doing it safely is the issue.
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RichWa wrote:
I've been an embedded hardware/software engineer for about 40 years working with all kinds of sensor based systems. One can definitely do an auto lock system just as assuredly one should not. There are three conditions required for the system to work from the manual (in addition to the seat being weighted):
1) Accelerator completely disengaged.
2) RPM of the engine at less than 2,500 rpm.
3) Vehicle speed below 10 km/h (~6mph.)
Please focus on OP's intial question.
OP has bought the bike for his wife. I think it all depends on the relationship between OP and his wife if your arguments are a pro or con for autolock.
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I've been riding MP3s for 15 years and shudder to think of having an automatic tilt lock.

The pothole that Jimc mentioned is one scenario, another is the road having a cross camber so that when the tilt locks, the suspension is going to be locked uneven and you'd probably end up dropping the bike.

It sounds like you're going to do what you're going to do, I can only add to the previous posters (who are long time MP3 riders) in saying it's not a good idea, and ESPECIALLY as you're asking someone else to ride it.
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ArnoEn wrote:
Please focus on OP's intial question.
OP has bought the bike for his wife. I think it all depends on the relationship between OP and his wife if your arguments are a pro or con for autolock.
The simple answer to OP's question is "no." But that does not explain why it should not be done. Implementing an auto-lock may get his wife maimed or killed. Hopefully OP's relationship with his wife precludes any desire to do away with her and therefore is a big "con" for autolock.

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