Modern Vespa

I know it's pretty f@@ked. But just how f@@ked?

Had to remove the oil filter cover (later 3 bolt design) on my BV350 to put in a new spring (new bike to me, changed the filter last week and discovered the bolt was missing, so ordered one).

Took the cover off no bother. Put in new spring. Replaced cover and seated it, carefully, and I do mean carefully, started to screw the bolts in, by hand. Started to finish them off with a socket and with almost zero pressure this bolt in question tightened ever so slightly, then kept going. Knew immediately what had happened.


Now yes, this might have been me, but I don't think so. Either way, I'm now a bit fecked!

So, two questions…

1. How can it be repaired?

2. Is it even possible to use it with just two bolts?

Please be gentle with me. I'm rather devastated right about now!

Looks like it's been over tightened and it's pulled the thread out.

There's probably a man out there who could helicoil that.

I did say go easy on me!

Yes, it looks like it's been overtightened. Thanks for that.

I'm concerned there'll be enough metal to helicoil it. I've helicoiled pushbikes before, but never something with such thin walls.

If that were mine, I'd helicoil it.

You don't have many other options, and at least it's easy to access.

I definitely wouldn't run it with just 2 bolts (pretty sure the would leak and maybe oil pressure problems too).

You might be lucky as it looks like there's just enough metal to make a seal.

The Helicoil Guy might have something that will fill in that missing chip if you ask nicely.

It's way above my skill with a helicoil, so will look out someone who can do it.


I've put it all back together with an ever so slightly longer bolt, which nips up ok. I'd say it's a little over hand tight. The other two are tight as they should be.

Gonna run it and prey, and get it in for helicoil repair asap.

I did google "oil filter cover stripped bolt hole" and I'm clearly not unique! There are pages of similar issues. KTM seems to be a popular victim.

KTM on Sunday, ATM on Monday.

lol.

Can't think of anything suitable to rhyme with Piaggio.

Don't be too hard on yourself. It happens to the best of us. No problemo.

A. Cut the head off the correct size bolt, and JB-Weld it in place. Clean out the hole real good, go slow, be sure it's perpendicular to the face. B. be more careful on the next oil change.

Thanks!

I've managed to get it all back together with a slightly longer bolt and a lot of care. No leaking over an hour long ride, so whilst I still need to sort it, I have at least got a working bike again.

A few are telling me there is (most likely) just enough material to do a helicoil. But I have to be honest, I'm moving more to the solution you mentioned; JB welding in a stud and sticking a nut on the end of it.

My thinking is that even if it doesn't hold, I'm no worse off.

I've been googling JB Weld applications, and it seems if you try to cut a thread in it it's pants. But for "welding" in a stud, in theory that should work.

The images you put up…. Is that a stud glued in with JB weld?

There's plenty of meat there for a Helicoil if the longer bolt doesn't work out. An 8mm Helicoil only needs an 8.3mm drill - get that as part of the kit. I've just had to do that with the bolts holding the timing belt tensioner on a Subaru engine. If that's a 6mm bolt hole, the drill size will be correspondingly smaller.

If you do a bodge job you'll just postpone the inevitable, better to just do it properly now and helicoil it.

I don't think there's a chip missing, the Beverly has a pry-point at every screw hole to pry off the oil filter cover, as it can be really stuck because of the o-ring.

Why is the machining so bad then ?

I thought I'd got away with this, at least in the short term. There were still some good threads, so with a slightly longer bolt it all nipped up OK. After an initial hour long test ride no leaks, so I thought phew!

But been out day and there is now the slightest build up of oil under the cover, so either it's leaking everso slowly, or the bolt with the minimal thread is slowly coming loose. Either way, I have to fix this asap.

I hear what people are saying about a helicoil. I've experience of these on pushbikes, but never with such a small amount of material around the hole. I understand some are saying plenty of metal, but I've not convinced. Plus, of course, a helicoil is a destructive fix. ie. if it doesn't work, it is almost definitely fucked; there is no coming back from it.

So my instinct is to go with the idea of bonding a stud into the hole, and putting a nut on the end of it, as per the post by Abner_Bjorn. This way, if it doesn't work, I still have the helicoil as a last resort.

I'd welcome the on opinions of others on this.

Cheers.

If you have enough thread deep inside there to get your bolt started, I think you will be in great shape. Clean the snot out of the opening with swabs and solvent. Maybe mask the surface with tape leaving just the hole exposed. Use the original 24 hour JB-Weld. Fill the hole about 2/3 full and gently thread your bolt a turn or more if you have it. Clean be sure the epoxy is packed around the bolt, and gently clean off the excess with swabs and solvent.

Thanks for that. In the pics you posted above, is this such a fix, also for a oil filter cover?

Looking at the alternatives, as a back up plan, two mechanics have looked at the pics and said they can repair. One said using a helicoil, the other said they can retap to either M7 or M8. I'm not sure there will be space for retapping. Anyone have an opinion on this?

Google says to use a helicoil an M6 holes first needs to be tapped to 6.3mm. Does that sound about right?

Less room for re-tapping than using a helicoil! Plus it'll get very confusing come replace-filter time. Yes, that sounds just right. The kits come with the bit:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=m6x1+thread+repair

Thanks for that Jim. And agreed. Retapping, whilst a better long term solution, I don't feel is an option due to limited material.

I fired a message to my old instructor this evening, who is a local font of knowledge. He actually recommended the mechanic who suggested the helicoil fix. So whilst I was only considering this as a last resort, I think that's the route I'm going to go.

The bike will be getting parked up in three weeks for at least a few months, as I'm off to Spain. So hopefully all this will be behind me by the time I go. And in Spain I have my lovely Beverly 400 to use, so looking forward to that, as it's much quieter and smoother to ride.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if I end up buying another 400 whilst over there and riding it back. My dealer in Torre Del Mar says he has a great condition identical 400 due in soon at a good price. And I haven't booked a return flight yet, so it's always an option!

Don't know about the laws in Ireland… I live in Switzerland and have a place in Portugal. I was thinking about buying a BV400 in PT and riding it to CH. But it is not allowed to be registered a resident in CH and drive a foreign vehicle in CH: this is seen as avoiding all kinds of taxes and such. My native Holland has the same restriction…

Hi. I have an NIE number in Spain, and I'm what is known as a "non-resident". Which isn't as it sounds. It means I have some resident rights, but I'm not a resident! I have a permanent address there too, so I'm able to buy things like motorbikes and cars etc.

What I'm trying to find out is if I can get the sales tax back if I export it.

As for importing, I'm in Northern Ireland, so it's UK law. I can import it no bother, but I think I'll have to pay import duty then VAT on top. I think. It's all very grey at the moment. I'm just trying to get proper info on it.

I lived in CH for a while when younger, old Geneva. It was an interesting experience!

Sounds like the same situation as me in Portugal. I have a NIF and 2 scooters there. But as a resident of CH I cannot ride my PT scooters to CH. But I am not talking importing into CH, then the situation is probably different.

You won't have to pay duty. I'm sure you are aware that NI is technically still part of the EU single market.

Same as importing from the ROI

https://rmsmotoring.com/forum/threads/importing-from-roi-n-i.234921/

You may find that buying one in GB is much cheaper than buying one in Spain though!

As with all thing BREXIT and the Protocol, nothing is clear.

There has always been exceptions for ROI to NI. But they don't always relate to the rest of the EU. FOM being the big one.

In theory, yes, there is no duty (6%) but there might still be sales tax. I'm trying to get a definitive from the local tax office, as it's them who will make the final decision. But the tax office here consists of three people; Valerie, who is on permanent sick leave, William, who spends most days at lunch. And wee Johnny, who is still trying to master the tea machine. So I'm not hopeful of a proper response anytime soon.

But I can get way cheaper in Spain than in UK. Example attached. That's from Barcelona, and it can be delivered to Santander. So I just jump off the ferry, get the keys, and jump straight back on.

I can only find one of similar age/mileage in the UK. It's in Brighton and a lot more money.

You will find that the rules for importing from the ROI and Spain to NI are now the same. Having said that you are totally correct in saying that finding out the rules and how to import are completely obscure! The freedom of movement thing is all to do with the CTA (common travel area) which I believe was set up in 1923. It also probably is why Ireland and the UK never became part of Schengen. I remember getting fined by Irish customs at Dundalk, driving from Belfast to Dublin in 1987. That was not fun.

I am surprised that the 400 is cheap in Spain, as normally all used vehicles on the Iberian peninsula are incredibly expensive! I would go for it. Used the Brittany ferries route from Rosslare to Bilbao several times now and love the journey.

Good luck with fixing the stripped thread.

You must be local?

A guy called Chris is calling out next week to sort the bolt. He does mobile spannering on bikes, recommend to me by Paul, my instructor. His price is very reasonable.

I remember years back importing mountain bikes from the EU, this was of course before BREXIT. I didn't have to pay the import duty, but I did have to pay VAT. They said because sales tax had never been paid in the UK before.

I bought it thru my business at the time, which was VAT registered, so it was no bother.

That's what I'm trying to establish; whether sales tax (VAT) will be applicable.

The water is further muddied becuase it's not new, it's 2nd hand. So the dealer in Spain will only be charging VAT on the profit of the sale, not the whole value, so if I can get it back, it might not be much.

That bike is just one of several examples. There are others. I live in the south of Spain when I'm there, Malaga, but don't want to buy a bike from my local dealer, as I'd then have to drive it to Santander. which I've neither the time or back for! But even in the south the bikes are much cheaper than the UK. I assume it's due to the volume of "maxi-scooters" on the road.

If I could actually find a dealer who'd sell me a new one, I'd even look at going that direction. But there are no Piaggio dealers in the north. The ones I've spoken to in ROI have zero interest in selling me a bike. And the few I've spoken with in GB, who are near a ferry terminal, switch off as soon as I mention I'm in NI.

I mean, I could just buy a Honda of course. But well, nah.

Had some time today, so did some digging. Found the attached.

I think I don't have to pay the import duty, which I beleive is 6%, but I do need to pay VAT.

I'm trying to find out how the value is set for the VAT to be calculated.