OP
@vpfalcon avatar
UTC

Addicted
1986 T5, 1961 Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
@vpfalcon avatar
1986 T5, 1961 Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
UTC quote
I have this 61 Allstate that won't start.
The background:
Rebuilt the motor, new seals, some new bearings, rotary pad looked okay, pads for the clutch.
There was some scoring on the cylinder wall but not too bad.
I reinstalled the motor and set the timing for the first time and the scooter wouldn't start. There is good spark, theres fuel.
I checked the compession and it was low, a bit over 50 psi.
I ordered a new 125 top end from SIP, and installed that yesterday, compression is still low and the scooter still won't start. Even with good strong spark and starting fluid.
I just dont get it, am I losing compression somewhere else?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@ditchdrift avatar
UTC

Hooked
50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 106
Location: Sf bay area
 
Hooked
@ditchdrift avatar
50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 106
Location: Sf bay area
UTC quote
The hose is too long for checking compression on a small cylinder. Shorten up the hose. Have you checked for air leaks?
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7753
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7753
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Probably leaking air. It's easy to test. Should be done routinely, at least every time the engine is apart or out of the bike.
@ditchdrift avatar
UTC

Hooked
50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 106
Location: Sf bay area
 
Hooked
@ditchdrift avatar
50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 106
Location: Sf bay area
UTC quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Probably leaking air. It's easy to test. Should be done routinely, at least every time the engine is apart or out of the bike.
I bet the flyside seal is whooped
OP
@vpfalcon avatar
UTC

Addicted
1986 T5, 1961 Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
@vpfalcon avatar
1986 T5, 1961 Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
UTC quote
I plan to do a test tomorrow. I sealed the carb box area with thick gasket material and flat piece of wood cut to fit. I will use a 2.25 diameter inner tube (cut with one end sealed) connected to the exhaust stub with a clamp, to introduce 6lbs psi.
Hoping to do the test with the motor still on the scooter.
If im full of beans on this, please let me know. I can pull the motor.
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UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6136
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6136
UTC quote
Vpfalcon wrote:
I have this 61 Allstate that won't start.
The background:
Rebuilt the motor, new seals, some new bearings, rotary pad looked okay, pads for the clutch.
There was some scoring on the cylinder wall but not too bad.
I reinstalled the motor and set the timing for the first time and the scooter wouldn't start. There is good spark, theres fuel.
I checked the compession and it was low, a bit over 50 psi.
I ordered a new 125 top end from SIP, and installed that yesterday, compression is still low and the scooter still won't start. Even with good strong spark and starting fluid.
I just dont get it, am I losing compression somewhere else?
How many times did you kick it over? Try kicking it over with conviction about 10x. If the pressure reading is still 50psi, perform a "wet test"…which is where you squirt about about a small spoonful of oil into the combustion chamber, then kick it over again to see if the compression is any higher. Report back after that.

Low compression is either bad piston rings, severely scored cylinder wall, or a very leaky cylinder head.
@gickspeed avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2749
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Ossessionato
@gickspeed avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2749
Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
what is the compression on the new cylinder? generally, needs to be 90 or above.
OP
@vpfalcon avatar
UTC

Addicted
1986 T5, 1961 Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
@vpfalcon avatar
1986 T5, 1961 Allstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
UTC quote
The compression on the new cylinder/piston was between 70 and 80 psi.
The air leak test showed a small leak from the outer (metal) portion of the flyside seal and a pretty massive leak from the case to cylinder surfaces.
I torqued the cylinder head nuts to 10 ft pounds each and the air leak improved. Still a bit of air escaping, but not a lot.
I rechecked the compression and now its up to 90 psi.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

Ossessionato
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2850
Location: Philadelphia
 
Ossessionato
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2850
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
There is no safe air leak. Get that sealed up or you'll be chasing your tail trying to get the jetting right. The leak will get worse and eventually it'll seize.

Get that sorted first.

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