Modern Vespa

We are primarily talking about filter coffee here, not espresso. So, pour-over, immersion, aeropress, or just straight from the coffeemaker.

Please choose:

A: I love black coffee
B: I hate black coffee
C: Meh

---

If you chose A, please add additional detail:
1: I love black coffee because of the bitterness
2: I love black coffee in spite of the bitterness
3: I don't think black coffee tastes bitter
4: I think it tastes bitter and am trolling everyone
5: Other (explain)

---

If you chose B, please add additional detail:
1: I hate black coffee because it tastes bitter
2: I hate black coffee because it tastes like dirt
3: I don't think black coffee tastes bitter
4: Other (explain)

---

Examples
- You love black coffee and you don't think it tastes bitter, then your answer would be A3.
- You hate black coffee because it tastes bitter, your answer would be B1.

You may also add additional commentary to your answer.

Just wanted to add: this is not actually a push-poll. I am genuinely curious what people think of black coffee, and why.

A3

Caribou Daybreak Blend light roast, freshly ground and straight from the coffeemaker. I would choose a darker blend but my wife wouldn't drink it. I'm not particular.

I love black coffee, without sugar or milk of course; I don't really find it bitter.
I prefer it brewed from an Italian coffee maker.

A5. I love black coffee.

Well-balanced bitterness enhances the flavor of coffee.

A3

I like black coffee and I cannot lie.
Actually, I don't drink milk so never considered using it in my coffee.
Really though, I don't drink coffee any more, for many reasons.

To join in the fun:
A3

B4 - I don't like coffee in any way, shape or form.

I've tried, believe me: black, white, cappuccino, mocha, tiramisu, coffee-flavored cake, ice-cream, the coffee choccie in the box of chocolates

You should have seen my face the time the coffee shop served me a chai latté that contained an espresso shot!

B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1

I like about 4-6 oz of coffee (drip cone, moka pot, Vietnamese drip, or Nespresso machine) smoothed out with a substantial amount of creamer and sugar.

There's no finer smell than freshly ground coffee. Black coffee is such a let-down compared to it. So, B4.

Some background.

I have been a coffee drinker for pretty much my whole adult life (and then some), I have been drinking it with cream and sugar (or sweetener, lately). I love the flavor of coffee, when it is well adulterated: latte, cappuccino, coffee ice cream, coffee candy -- you name it, I love it. I love the smell of coffee too, especially freshly ground beans.

But I genuinely do not like black coffee. I find it extremely bitter.

Recently, possibly out of boredom, I decided to challenge myself to learn a new skill: pour-over coffee. I've heard many people on Youtube and elsewhere extoll the virtues of pour-over, waxing rhapsodically about the sweet and fruity notes you can get from the right coffee, or the acidity balance, or... yeah. You get the idea.

And while I was at it, I figured maybe I would try to learn to like straight black coffee, since surely my results would be masked by the cream and sweetener I typically put in coffee.

(As an aside, several years ago I took up baking artisanal sourdough bread, and came pretty close to mastering it. But since I can't eat bread any more, I stopped baking, and I miss the kaizen of making bread. I figured pour-over coffee might offer some of the same self-improvement opportunities.)

So I did some research, watched a lot of Youtube videos (James Hoffmann in particular) and purchased a modest set of well-regarded tools to get started (see the photo below). In particular, I put most of my budget into a reasonable hand-grinder (the KINGrinder K6) and also a Hario Switch dripper. The scale has some nice features but wasn't especially expensive. And I also bought a Hario Air pitcher (cheap-ish) that mimics the control of a gooseneck kettle, since I only have a traditional kettle and I really, really do not want two kettles on my kitchen counter.

And while I think I now have a pretty good handle on how to make a proper cup of pour-over coffee, well... I still find it quite bitter. And I don't think my technique is wrong, I think I am just genetically predisposed to tasting bitter more acutely than others.

I'd also be curious to know, for those of you that like black coffee: how do you feel about IPA beer?

Coming at it from the other direction: I hate coffee, but love IPA, the bitterer the better, so it's not the bitterness I find off-putting.

Interesting. Can you say more about what you find objectionable about the taste of coffee, then?

B-1. I really enjoy coffee, but only with ( real cream preferred), a slight amount of sweetener like equal. Too much of the sweetener ruins it IMO. It has to be so-so for me. It has to have a slight amount of bitter to it.

I know what you mean. I use these, which are a very small dose of saccharine. But even that small dose is pushing it a bit, unless it's a pretty generous cup of coffee.

I have both Hario and Melitta cones, a Vietnamese dripper, a Bialetti moka pot, and a Nespresso machine. Everything but the Nespresso machine makes "thin" coffee, with little richness and lots of bitterness (I find Keuring brewers much the same). I drink each type for a specific purpose (an afternoon "jolt", or after a rich meal, or with a pastry, etc., except for the Nespresso. I drink that when I just want a coffee.

I don't like any coffee at all. Love the way it smells. But tastes like hot garbage atmo

A5

I did a Batista course when we bought our portafilter machine. I learned that many parameters during preparation have a significant influence on the taste of the end product. Coffee type/blend/origin, roast, grind, quantity in the portafilter, how much tampering, pH value of the water (chlorinated water yes/no, usually unchlorinated in Germany!), temperature, brewing pressure, extraction time, and so on. In other words, one and the same bean can end up tasting completely different.

I have already drunk coffee in many countries and restaurants (black filter coffee/Americano, espresso, latte machiato), and apart from the differences in preparation, I have noticed that there are definitely fundamental differences in taste between individual countries/nations. So there seem to be regional differences in the desired taste.

By the way: If black coffee, then I use a porcelain filter with a paper filter bag (Melitta) and brew by hand. And all black, no Milk, no Sugar.

Okay, but you didn't actually say anything about what you like (or don't like) about the taste.

A3. Been like that my whole life.

Nominally related story...

Many years ago when I lived in London, I took the tube to work (as one is wont to do there) and every day, I'd get a cup of coffee at the Costa Coffee stand in Liverpool St. Station. Now in the UK, the "normal" way to drink coffee was "flat white," basically like tea: A cup of milk with some coffee splashed into it. Nobody over there drank black coffee unless it was an Espresso, and usually not even that.

The first couple times I ordered "just a large coffee," they gave me flat white, and then had to pour me a proper cup, but after a couple days, I learned how to order it ("large BLACK coffee") and they learned that I really didn't want any milk in my coffee, and all was good.

My order was unusual enough that the crew who worked the the cart, a group of very tall, very blonde Eastern European girls would see me walking toward the cart, greet me as "Black Coffee Guy!" and have my order ready by the time I got there, bypassing all the people queuing to order their "flat white" coffees and just going straight to the register.

So black coffee for the win for me.

Which is not to say that I don't like coffee with cream and sugar or, even better, some Bailey's and/or whiskey in it, but that's a dessert/after dinner drink thing, not a coffee thing in my mind.

A3

I love freshly ground black coffee in the morning, and a double shot of Nespresso Chiaro in the afternoon.

Yes, I actually forgot that... or it's not that easy:

Filter coffee / brewed coffee, preferably strong (1 spoonful of coffee powder per cup and 1 extra for the pot (black, without milk, without sugar)

Espresso: rather smooth, not too bitter, sugar but not stirred and spooned after the espresso.

Latte Machiatto, milk/milk foam not too hot, otherwise it becomes bitter, preferably with syrup (Monin Vanilla), no sugar.

A3, and sometimes A2

A1

I also like unsweetened chocolate - zero sugar.

C. Meh to not-espresso coffee. I like my coffee very strong, black, no sweetener.

I grew up in a post-war UK household, no-one took sugar with anything except occasionally some breakfast cereals. So I grew up accustomed to strong black coffee (Dad always brewed coffee in a Bialetti espresso maker), strong English Breakfast (black) tea.

And I love American IPAs - the hoppier and more bitter the better, but low-end ABV please, so somewhat similar to UK bitter although there's some sweetness in the US brews.

And the head is NOT part of the measure unless it's Guinness - short measures get immediately asked for a top-up.

James Hoffmann is the Modern Vespa of coffee! The best!

I drink black coffee and love IPA. I am guilty of having 'hop tongue' which basically has ruined so many other beer types for me. If it doesn't taste like a pine tree, I'm uninterested.

I don't like the fact that IPA has ruined other beers for me.. it's a me problem, not the beer. It will pass. It has to.

I like my coffee strong with a little half and half (milk/cream). Not too fond of black coffee or sweetened coffee (except maybe iced coffee with cream and sugar).

I don't like IPA. To me it tastes thin and bitter.

Beers I like: Dos Equis Amber, Negra Modelo, Guinness Draught, Michelob Amber.

Lately I've been trying non-alcoholic beers for health reasons and have found some that I actually like: Clausthaler, Bitberger, Guinness Zero.

My wife drinks her coffee black and a little diluted. She will drink it day-old or instant. Her favorite beer is Michelob Ultra or Michelob Zero (basically beer-flavored mineral water).

B-1/2... Though I like a touch of sugar & creamer in mine.
I am also a fan of German coffee, such as Jacobs, Dallmayr & Tschibo, which are less bitter and very tasty...

Don't care much for IPA, other than Bass Ale...
The bier I drink is mostly Paulaner Lager & Pils, Bitburger Pils, Köstritzer Black lager & Heineken...

B1

I hate it a little less every year though. I can drink it black now whereas 5 years ago I'd prefer to go without. And five years ago I was putting crazy amounts of hops into my home brew IPAs and now I'd struggle to finish a triple.

French press and aeropress, one of each daily. Often a small flat white if I can get away for lunch.

I guess it's not too surprising that I would gravitate toward his videos.

I've been watching him on and off for a couple years. But in the last few weeks, I've probably watched 30-40 of his videos.

A3 if it is good quality coffee.

B3 If it is Starbucks or restaurant coffee.

A3

I started drinking coffee in high school, adding as much cream and sugar as it would take to taste like coffee ice cream, which I have always loved. Over time, I had it blacker are blacker, and now generally have it iced with as dark a roast as I can get. A full flip from hot and sweet to cold and dark.

To me, if I'm getting what I like, the coffee's dominating flavors read to me as nuts and dark chocolate. I am very much not a fan of "modern" sour roasts, which some people like to describe as fruit or acid. I have less pleasant words I'd use to describe the flavor.

While there are exceptions, I generally don't like IPAs, but not due to "bitterness" so much as "hopiness". While I know that hops "bitter" the sweet wort, it never really reads as bitter to me, more like aggressive and numbing Pine-sol to the tongue. It feels more physical than a flavor reaction to me.

I do like things that seem bitter to me, like bitter melon (goya) and orange peel.

I can't put my finger on it - I just don't like it. I remember as a kid going with my mum to Carwardine's, a coffee shop in Coventry where they roasted and ground the beans. She loved the smell, but I really didn't like it.

It's weird because, otherwise, I'm pretty aggressively omnivorous. I've travelled all over the world, eating pretty much everything I've been offered, and never encountered anything else that I've had a problem with.

A2 or A3 depending as short answers. I like a little bitterness, but not a lot. I don't find most drip coffee in the US very bitter. I don't like black coffee because of the bitterness.

I love strong coffee.

I love black coffee or at least like black filter coffee in the US better than with cream or milk or whatever. I primarily drink espresso/espresso based coffee and have for a very long time only drinking filter coffee when there are no other options (say at a diner for breakfast).

I have been using fat free milk with my espresso until recently, but often got straight espresso when out. I also lived in Germany for 3 years.

A long time ago I found that regular drip coffee in the US was/is too weak and easily washed out with any milk, cream, etc. so I switched to black, much better.

More recently I switched to black espresso at home as for some reason I no longer really like it with milk. Strangely, I do like to have plain milk after or yogurt. I have found that Nespresso Scuro seems more bitter with milk than without. I like it better black.

I also have a manual pull lever espresso machine and Mini Mazzer grinder. Lately I have been enjoying the ease of Nespresso in the morning and making espresso in the afternoon.

Now, why do I like it black? Don't they say once you go black you never go back? Sorry, that might be about something else.

I do have moka pots and have used pour overs when traveling.

Anyway, rather longwinded and rambling… I do like some bitterness, but not overpowering bitterness. Most US black filter coffee is not very bitter to me as it is weak to begin with. As mentioned, I have lived in Europe so there is that.

Interesting to read everyone's comments.

I did IPAs for some years and also found I had IPA tongue. For me it was an acclamation process with IPA. I quit drinking IPAs and other beers became normal. These days I rarely drink beer.

I think for some there may be an acclamation process with black coffee or acquired taste as well.

A3

Black coffee. Just coffee, no nothing else in it. And really only in the morning. I use a regular drip machine, 1 scoop per mug, plus some extra because. I DO NOT like bitter ales, but red ale or styles like Negro Modelo are fine. I tried sour beer once at a brew pub, and I can't believe someone would actually pay for a glass of it. It was completely undrinkable. I also like scotch whisky, blends are fine.

B4

I like coffee with half and half …it's just to acidic without cream.

Acidic or bitter? I rarely hear anyone complain about acidity in coffee (though it can get sour if the acid is too high).

A13

Strong black coffee.

Anything described as 'Morning' or 'Breakfast Blend' should be illegal. It's warm, brownish, water, and should be labeled as such.

(Pay no attention to the $16 watch)

I used to drink coffee, in particular gas station coffee. The older, the darker the better. And I never tasted the bitter. Then I started getting caffeine withdrawals every weekend, as Mrs Syd drank decaf at the time: every Saturday I had a headache. Sundays it was so bad I couldn't get out of bed.
Then Monday I would wake-up feeling fine. You can imagine how this went over.
Six months later, or so, we figured out it was lack of caffeine on weekends. So I quit.
I don't drink IPAs, but I love Guiness and coffee anything else except, coffee.

This is all very interesting to me.

I started this thread because I wasn't sure if people who like black coffee just can't taste the bitterness, or that they like it in spite of the bitterness, or that they like it because of the bitterness.

It sounds like for most, people who like black coffee can't taste the bitterness.

It would appear that I am in the genetic category of being able to taste quite a bit of the bitterness of black coffee, so reaching a point where I actually like it seems quite remote.

I do really like a lot of the flavors found in coffee -- and the smell as well. But I really can't get past the bitterness.