Modern Vespa

I dislike black coffee because I think it tastes like dirt! B2

Well, Jesse, you already know how I like my coffee. Mostly espresso with steamed milk, resembling a flat white. I will occasionally just have an espresso with a dash of milk (macchiato or pingo in PT), but I will usually add a tiny bit of sugar to that. Otherwise no sugar.

Even with milk, I dislike french press, drip, filter, cold-pour etc.

So back to bitterness. Is it bitterness I dislike? No, I don't think so, although the milk balances that, as does the sugar in the espresso. I like IPA and the bitterness in that.

I think perhaps, it has a lot to do with mouth-feel. Black coffee just feels thin, whereas coffee with milk feels like a luxury. Having said that, I would NEVER put any sort of cream in my coffee; that just seems disgusting!

I prefer making coffee with my Breville oracle with its double-boiler and auto milk steaming, but at a push, Nespresso plus a bit of microwaved milk is what I will use if I am in a holiday let for example. Most holiday apartments will have a Nespresso machine here in Europe.

This is the kind of insight I was looking for. Thanks for that. Also useful! Actual heavy cream in coffee is a bit much, I agree -- which is why Half & Half is popular in the US, as it is a halfway point between full-fat milk and heavy cream.

Hmm. It is still like our single cream. Interestingly when your MIL was staying, she wanted half & half and I bought here some "natas light", which is kind of the equivalent. She ended up not using it at all! I think she just either steamed the milk or microwaved it.

As for someone stirring in coffeemate. Ugh. Shudders

I could not disagree more strongly. While Hoffman has some interesting content and I used to watch him a lot; I now find him torturous. As bad as nails scraping down a blackboard.

Just like why I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like black coffee, I can't quite put my finger on why I can no longer watch Hoffman. I think part of it is the delivery and the fake accent. It's just horrible. I also suspect it is some of the made-especially-for-youtube delivery.

Something else just sprang to mind.

Our favourite dessert? Affogato. Another exception. Vanilla ice cream with an espresso over the top. Lovely.

Also Irish whiskey. Coffee with lots of brown sugar and a shot of whiskey. Cream poured in a a layer over the top.

Or the Tenerife equivalent - the cortado which involves liquor and condensed milk for breakfast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barraquito

A5

I think it's wrong to say black coffee is just bitter. I depends on the quality and roast of the beans!

Many ppl "hide" the junk coffee they're brewing by masking it with enough sugar and milk.

Too light a roast can be acidic and bite. Too dark a roast brewed too strong can be bitter. I often find my favorite is a medium dark roast to get the earthly full flavor without being too bitter or acidic.

Warning, I'm a coffee fanatic 😂

I mean, that's pretty much the heaviest of the heavy cream

I don't know if I know the consistency of single cream. I'll have to sample it and see.

I have more than a passing interest in the subtlety and diversity of the English language. But just as you dislike James Hoffmann, I think Geoff Lindsey should be banished from the interwebs.

It's all well and good to highlight differences in dialects (interesting, even!) but I absolutely will not accept this idea he pushes that an accent is "wrong". To claim a dialect is wrong or erroneous is to fundamentally misunderstand the English language -- and language itself. Considering that his whole schtick is making videos that are ostensibly scholarly examinations of the English language, this is an unforgivable sin.

It's also arrogant and incredibly offensive.

So no, I will not watch any more Geoff Lindsey videos, ever.

I agree with your observations (if not all your choices ). I also consider myself a "coffee nut". I source and roast my own coffees. I only use coffee just after it is ground. I find that a number of methods of brewing coffees can be pleasing and I use espresso, french press, or drip (pour over) depending on the coffee and my mood. I prefer the light to medium end of the roast spectrum because of the bright and complex flavors that tend to be possible with these roasts. Again, it all depends on the varietal being roasted. I don't prefer extremely dark roasts as most of the interesting flavors are "burned" out of them. I think Starbucks prefers dark roasts because they have a longer shelf life - i.e. that is to say that the taste is more stable through time (it starts over roasted and continues to taste that way for quite a while). I sometimes use a light touch of milk or sugar, but only if it accentuates the flavor of the coffee. I find that a little foamed milk often complements the coffee flavors and adds a bit of sweetness. Try a medium roast "natural process" Ethiopean coffee such as a Yirgacheffe. The good ones are often referred to as a "blueberry bomb". You will never get anything like that from a dark roast.

I agree that beans and the roast and the brewing technique makes a huge difference. Just in my own amateur attempts to learn the art of pour-over, I have seen first-hand what a difference even small changes make.

That said, when it comes to tasting bitterness, there are no universal truths, because genetics. My sense of bitterness is quite pronounced. I've yet to try a single cup of black coffee anywhere in the world that wasn't bitter. This is my truth. Your mileage may vary according to your own genetics.

My goal for this thread was really to understand if people who like black coffee either don't find it bitter, or like the bitterness, or like coffee in spite of the bitterness. There appears to be a good mix of all three, but I am guessing based on the comments here that the majority of black-coffee drinkers don't find it especially bitter.

Also, IPAs are disgusting to me and I will never be convinced otherwise.

I don't dislike freshly ground black coffee, but I'd rather enjoy the taste if I have the option (which I do if I am home). I grind organic coffee beans and brew them in my Ninja machine. I add a dash of coconut cream/almond milk and just 4 drops of stevia for a touch of sweetness. Stevia is such a powerful sweetener that you have to be careful using too much. As for black coffee, it's not the slight bitterness that bothers me but the oiliness. That said, if I was offered a mug of black coffee from anyone, I would thankfully accept it.

That's a very limited statement, the range of flavours under the encompassing label of IPA's is very varied. You may as well be saying you don't like wine.

I prefer the golden, cloudy IPA's that are full of hops yet my drinking pals think it tastes like drinking perfume! I assume you are referring to the darker, bitter IPA's?

I actually agree with all of that. I have watched lots of his stuff and the one that you are referring to is perhaps an aberrance because I've never seen that again.

Anyhoo, he has an insight into language, phonetics and phonemes that I have never seen anywhere else, which is why I keep watching. Another reason is that linguistics and phonetics was one of my favourite components of my University of Edinburgh modern language course. The excellent phonetics element was taught by an US lecturer. To say that she was unusual in the UK in the 1980s would be an understatement.

I suspect it is all to do with the percentage fat content. Single cream (culinaria or light here) has a percentage in the 20s. Baking cream (batar) is 35%, is pretty impossible to whip to peaks and doesn't hold those peaks if you manage. The only way I have been able to whip cream here in Portugal is to add mascarpone to the latter! I suspect that brings it up to the percentage fat of heavy cream in the US (40%?) or double cream (48%) in the UK.

I mean, it's right there in the thumbnail!

Half and half in the US is between 10% and 18% milk fat. So not too far off what you call single cream, but I would guess that most half and half is closer to 10% than 18%.

Every one that I have tasted is horribly bitter.

Maybe you don't have a very strong bitter sense?

OK, started my morning coffee black.

Love the flavor, don't think it's bitter in any way.
Added some half and half (as i normally do), Like that better. Mostly it's the mouth feel, but there is something about the flavor as well.

The smoky notes are fuller, like the difference between smoke from a camp fire vs the smell of it left in the clothes. Or a club in the '80s full of clove cigarette smoke vs and the smell of the smoke left in your trench coat.

Maybe it's just nostalgia that keeps me adding the half and half.

I will bring bitterness testing strips to our next beer outing. I'll be very interested to see the result.

Thank you for that. Maybe I'm not crazy, lol. It's the best I could come up with, personally.

They run Maxwell House packs through a Bunn coffee maker at work. It's free.

I opt to buy and make my own coffee.

I have a poor sense of smell and taste hence why I drink strong flavoured beers and ciders rather than bland lagers and pilsners.


The fact remains that not all IPA's are bitter as I especially like the floral and fruity varieties.

Perhaps you don't find them all bitter, but it's not clear that you have the ability to taste bitterness to any large degree. As we've already established in this thread, ability to taste bitterness is a genetic trait. So I really don't see how your claim applies to everyone else.

Also, the defining characteristic of IPA beers is a hop-forward flavor. Hops are in fact added to beer specifically as a bittering agent.

I'd like to try that too!

Will do!

Originally they were added as a preservative, to make the ale last a bit longer before going off.

Then people (OK, some people) liked the bitterness, and also the floral notes. The ale had to last at least eight weeks (six weeks for the voyage, plus two weeks transport/drinking) on its way to the Brits in India, so lots of extra hops helped this, hence India Pale Ale.

That also tended to have quite a high (for the time) ABV of 6% or so. Nowadays they can make IPAs with just as much flavour (for those who like it, ME!) but less ABV, as low as 3.6% in some cases. Great thirst quenchers!

Totally fair, but they're still a bittering agent today.

Oh yes - major factor! Plus the different aromatics from different hop varieties. With pretty much only the UK still having cask conditioned ale, the preservative aspect has disappeared from US brews, 99.999% of which are keg beers, with almost zero working yeast left. Kept in a near-zero oxygen state until it's in a glass or down your neck.

I also like my cold brew and iced coffee black. Likewise for coffee on nitro.

I have only had a small sampling of cold brewed coffee, and I am pretty sure I've never had it black. I will have to try it and see whether it agrees with me or not.

Occasionally, if there is some regular brewed hot coffee left in the Moccamaster by mid-morning, I'll drop some cubes into a class and finish off the pot cold.

In this case it just iced coffee because the ratios are wrong, but it's still good.

And also the extraction will be much different. As I understand it, the whole point of cold brew is to extract a different set of volatile compounds.

I will drink black coffee, if I must, but yes all black coffee tastes bitter to me.

I love black coffee with a touch of sweetner. Cream helps too but not needed.

I hate IPA's but love Guinness. Kind of makes sense

This is my understanding as well.

I have not gotten into making nitro at home.

BUT

There is an interesting trick that produces a similar result without nitro. Take a shot of expresso in your frothing pitcher of part ice, part water and melt the ice with the steam wand from your espresso machine.

and Aerocano!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/T2zaPBhmiRA

The ladies and I visited the new big hotel in Yellow Springs.
Ordered coffee with our breakfast.
Youngster, upon my request, fetched a small pitcher when I asked for cream.

I mean, I know they are just getting the doors open, and the paint and hardwood floors still smell new - but she set down a cute little pitcher on skimmed milk!
I don't care if that's de rigueur in Bulgaria....or with the twigs leaves and mulch cereal eaters..... Not happening.
Our first and last cup of joe in the Mills Inn Hotel.

I walked down and apologized to Dino. He makes very strong coffee and serves 1/2 & 1/2.

O.S.

O.S.

What is 1/2 and 1/2, what's Bulgaria got to do with this story, is joe slang for coffee? Who's Dino?

So many questions!

In Americish, half and half is a mixture of full cream and part skim milk. Sold in pint cartons and in little single serve whitener capsules. Joe is coffee. Dino is his coffee guy? Bulgaria because maybe the wait staff was a summer hire from Eastern Europe?

I suspect you are probably somewhere in the vicinity of a supertaster, then.

LOL probably not but without a touch of sweetner in black coffee I can taste only bitter. With a little honey or sugar I can taste all of the good flavors beneath the bitter.