Modern Vespa

Another setback, albeit not a big one. I'm being urgently called back to work, leaving in a week. C'est la vie 🤷🏻‍♂️

So no physical work will be done on my scoot at least until December, possibly longer. I will at least try to 3d scan the frame and the engine before I head off.

I should probably scan the front while I'm at it, and see what clocking the front fork will provide. I must admit, I'm kinda leaning towards it lately. 🙂

Looks like I'm gonna manage to scan the frame and engine, before I head off for work. More pics to follow.

Look at this poor bugger. 😄 This is about 9 years of neglect by previous owner. Have you seen worse? I don't recall that I have. 😁

And some relatively not so good news, although one could argue if it matters, given the project trajectory. Looks like something has invaded the dreaded 0.05 rotary pad clearance.

"Costa Fortuna" was like that. It preserved the metal which was nice, some of the zinc plating on the electric start motor is intact as a result 😀

Consider it a preservative and not a pain to remove lol

Ouchie!

Good excuse for a reedvavle setup though 😉

Indeed. 😁

I'm still contemplating options, because I'm my chaotic mind reed valve is only good if it's mounted on the cylinder. I don't have any tests nor numbers to back this thought though. 🤔

At the same time, I would like to put the Explorer on the scoot, I like it's performance to price ratio. But it has no facility to fulfil above desire. 🤦🏻‍♂️

There's m244 which does have it, but it's becoming barringly expensive. 😐

Looks like eventually I'll have to replicate the new style LML reed valve setup to make it worthwhile... 😒

M244 on this 125 engine above?

After substantial modifications to the engine casings, of course. Truthfully, I don't yet have all the pieces in place, but generally yes. Thoughts?

Edit: 150

If this were my bike and it had autolube, I would definitely jb weld the rotary pad to keep the SI carb and autolube function.

But in this case, there's no real incentive to not convert to reed induction.

I can't recall if you've already gone over this previously, but I think what you want is -

* Biggest/most power cylinder
* Reed on cylinder
* Keep existing cases, but any modification to cases ok
* Money no object (just kidding!)

Options for reed on cylinder are -

* Quattrini 172 (Jack can walk you through the whole thing but pretty straightforward)
* Quattrini 244/252/260/265 - needs to have reed manifold attachment machined into cylinder, manifold possibly the same as 172. Cranks above 244 need case spindled. Need adaptor kit 150 - 200 or case welding.
* Pinasco 252 for PX200. Not released yet. Needs adaptor kit.
* Egig 220 - unknown fitting difficulty (made for smallframe), definitely needs case work but multiple options for case attachment. Stroke 60, bore 68mm. Needs custom intake and exhaust. 35hp out of the box. PX125 cylinder cowl fits. Could use a SIP 127mm rod full circle crank and a 10mm mounting plate to change stud pattern and blend transfers.
Note: Egig conversion would make you an instant worldwide legend.

Egig 220

Wow! Look at the size of that opening on Pinasco 252 🫣 That's what I'm talking about.

Ok, you got all the bits correct Ginch, thanks for summing it up. And thanks for listing the current known options! 👏🏻

I would just add that the goal is not max power. I'm quite happy with 25-30hp. And no need to go further than 250cc (or thereabouts). No interesso on BFA madness. 😁

Having said that, I understand these power levels can be achieved with smaller kits, designed specifically for the small PX casing. I tend to believe that a kit which can make 50hp, is going to run less strained @30hp than a high strung kit maing out @30hp. Provided it's tuned for road use/spirited in the twisties.

There's also a price to performance ratio to consider, M1XL costs more than an Explorer, admittedly with a reed manifold, valve and stuffer. If we exclude the cost of these bits, it ain't much more gentle on the ol' wallet, in comparison to VMC. Jist of it, in for a penny, in for a pound.

Digression. I get what VMC is doing, they're making a move on the market, they produce no stuff of their own, just label slapping. But still they contract known names in the industry, giving the VMC name some reliability. At the same time, VMC reduces the cost for the benefit of marketing. But that period ain't gonna last forever, soon enough they'll cost comparable to Quattrini, etc. This is if course, my opinion, I don't represent VMC.

Re. the EGIG, that would be cool indeed. Too many variables though, 117mm rod, 15mm pin, exhaust outlet orientation, etc... I like going the unusual way, but this may be a bit too exotic even for me. 😁

Couldn't help it 😁

With the stud adaptor it needs a 125mm conrod for a normal P200 cylinder. M244 needs a 126mm conrod on a P200 case. That's not going to work on yours. Only kits that use a 110 conrod can be considered.

That being said, my M1XL pulls a 23/64 primary like a 210 and goes just as fast.

It certainly does look big, but the actual opening in the reed is the important bit. No doubt still big enough.
Pinasco, as Jack indicated, tend to have their drawbacks. Quality can definitely be patchy. Their porting and port timing often is less than optimal.
2 or 3 years ago they came up with the Pinasco 251 (no relation) which was a complete package. Proprietary case, crank, clutch and cylinder based loosely on the T5 and it looked the duck's guts. Very much like a proper bike cylinder. Think it put out - assembled to their specs - something like 24 or 25hp. Jurgen/Posch Performance on the GSF developed one and after some time it was able to match and eventually better a Q244 but it was a long haul and took heaps of work.
So. Pinasco, very much an unpredictable quantity. Yeah I think you're right, I hadn't considered the 125 vs 126 situation.
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So that just leaves case welding!

This is a PX125 case welded and drilled for Quattrini 244.

Yes but issue is the 14mm adapter. M244 would need a140mm Conrod. Stick with the direct induction plan (not pinasco), this is interesting.

Yep I understood the implications of that once you pointed it out.
Unfortunately the Pinasco 252 is going to have the same issues as the Quattrini - the long rod.

As a thought experiment, interesting. As reality? Also Pinasco.

If we are really pushing the boat oit here...

Anyone considered a motorcycle top end?

Husqavana maybe?

CR250

Gas gas 250


The OP did say machining work where they reside is an an acceptable level of cost. Added benefits are watercooling too

Careful with that strategy - just end up exposing the next weakest link in the equation.......

This is not mine btw..

Dude, that's a quick release, cassette type racing gearbox, nothing wrong with it...

Talk about an easy way to split the cases in the frame! Bit more expensive this way but can't argue it's not a quick case opening!