Modern Vespa

THIS IS NOT A QUESTION ABOUT BAD PUMPS THAT FAIL WHEN HOT AND THE RECALLS.

So, with that in mind what are the symptoms before a pump dies?

Not necessarily just for Vespa/Piaggio, but I have been told by a mechanic one symptom of a pump beginning to fail is failure to start normally (engine just cranks/turns over, no crank up/engine start) followed by starting normally on a second try. In other words, the pump won't prime first try and needs a second attempt to work.

Yeah ... P0230

Did your 2019 ever get called back by the recall , or do you think its just worn out due to age/ miles ?

Steve

My 2019 is not included in the recall. The VIN was checked by the dealer years ago.

6 years and 75,000km seem to have taken their toll.

Or this is just a symptom of a different thing failing (eg wiring or relay or ...)

I recommend having the VIN checked again, as the recall may have been extended.
In Germany, the serial number of the fuel pump (not the chassis number!) had to be checked at the time to determine whether the pump had been replaced at Piaggio's expense. I assume that Piaggio could not say for sure which batch of pumps had been installed in which vehicles. I would therefore submit a new warranty claim with the serial number of the pump. Maybe you'll get lucky.

An important note for the thread:

mine is not failing when warm like the recall.

It's failing when cold.

And other symptoms like it hates going over bumps until the engine bay warms up

That is a bit of a strange scenario.

Can you hear the fuel pump prime every time you turn the key on? If not, that could indeed be an issue. Some sort of intermittent fault. You can check the fuse as well, but if it was blown, it would never work.

Also, you should check the electrical connections at the top of the pump are well secured and not corroded - which is a total PITA. You have to drop the tank just to check them.

You might also check your injector is clean and that the HT lead is secure at both the spark plug and the coil.

Good Luck. I hate chasing this kind of stuff down.

re priming: every time I listen for it I hear it prime. yesterday it fired, started, stumbled, died. would then crank and not fire. turned off and an again still wouldn't fire. I had my helmet on and there was a lot ambient noise so couldn't hear. took my helmet off and removed the pet carrier and stuck my head in the engine bay. turned on and heard it prime. pressed start and it started. f I hate intermittent.

re coil, I checked it here: Coil and lead is f**ked [REPLACED]

re injector: have though of that but doubting it would follow the pattern of hating speed bumps when cold. could clean it anyway but since I still get 10sec 0-100 (gps) and maxing at 130kph (this is approx 9500rpm) it seems to have good power making me doubt the injector.

re cold: 5C overnight and gauges saying 10-12C when I hop on the bike to go to the shops mid morning.

although you're right to ask my dealer I don't think this is it.

I checked the list of VINs on the recall notice (link below) and noted that all the year letters in the vins is 'M". mine is a 'K' so two years earlier.

plus that was for a warm fail and mine is a cold fail - never has failed when warm


https://b2b.psimporters.com.au/DOWNLOADS/Bulletins/Service%20Bulletins/Vespa/PSB61%20-%20Vespa%20GTS%20%20GTV%20Fuel%20pump%20and%20sender%20replacement.pdf

Occasionally when priming i hear it change tone

I wonder - could it be that the sound changes when the fuel system comes up to pressure?

Or, is this change of sound a normal event?

Fair question, I've wondered that myself.

But i suspect not.

What we need now is for someone with the same machine to let us know if their pump sounds the same.

Any takers?

Tomorrow

It's out

After plenty of Vespa Tetris it is running.

didn't fix it 🤬

Have you monitored the "injection loads relay" coil to ensure it both gets 12V power AND gets grounded by the ECU?

If only the problem would happen on demand ...

But since that relay also includes the coil and lambda and injector ... I'm doubting the relay is failing

I think the fan is on a different relay, but I would have to check the schematic again.

I suspect I'm experiencing similar issues with my 2021. I rotated the relays around and that didn't help my situation. But I hope I can rule out the fuel pump based on your findings.

Does the spark plug wire separate from the cap? I thought about separating it and reseating it.

With my luck, my situation is probably the ignition switch as mentioned in the other thread. There were a few times when it cut out and the only way to restart it was to flip the key off and back on. The other times, I could restart it with just the starter button. The Killswitch didn't make a difference.

hmm, might try that. see Coil and lead is f**ked [REPLACED]

re fan relay:
I've also been sometimes getting a P0480 (at the same time as the P0230) which is supposedly for the fan relay. the fan relay is a child of the injection loads relay which is making me wonder if the injection loads relay is the problem


PS, I've never heard of "Dfw". What country is that

relays i see from the manual: starter, injection load, fan, high beam, low beam.
starter relay location is specified in the manual. which is which up front? manual shows wire colors but ill probably pull one at time. where is the last one.

i need more time to put my thought together but what i see in common for my issue is ignition switch, injection load relay, cdi.

im using the sei giorni hpe manual posted here as reference. hopefully it applies to the 2021 gts

It's the IATA code for "Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas".

And Texas is kind of like another country sometimes....

I could start using " SLSF " if these came common

I could use CCR (or LHR at the moment), but that wouldn't mean much to most.

Bump. Might be time to get my own obd adapter

I of course recommend Vespa Diag
https://www.steelbytes.com/vespadiag/

Definitely. Have you made further progress with the situation ?