Modern Vespa

Royal Alloy has come out with a 350cc version of their Scomadi copy.
I was looking through Malossi's new products, and everything made for the new Vespa 310 engine also fits the Royal Alloy 350.
Odd, given that this is a brand new motor.
So I pulled up the specs for the new Royal Alloy, and the engine displacement, bore and stroke is identical to that of the Vespa 310.
Which begs the question, if this is a brand new Piaggio engine, and it is the same engine in the Royal Allow, why is it already showing up in Chinese scooters that directly compete with Vespa GTS sales?

Why do they call it a 350 if it's a 310? I know the manufacturers round up their displacement numbers, but 40 cc's is a pretty big jump on a small engine like that.

Its the Vespa 278cc motor with a 15mm longer stroke making it a 309cc

The cheeky sods are calling it a 350 for marketing reasons only.

But is it the same engine as the GTS 310 motor? They use the same cam.

"310cc or 350cc?
Piaggio may well have only recently released the MP3 310, Vespa GTS 310 and Beverly 310 but (from what we've been told) Royal Alloy are also utilising that very powerplant for their 2025 large-capacity scooters. Steve Oliver said they come out of the same factory as Piaggio/Vespa and that factory isn't in Pontedera (he didn't give any further details). We asked a Piaggio spokesman to confirm or deny the claims and were told that they aren't selling the new engine to anybody else and it is built in Italy."
https://scooterlab.uk/royal-alloy-range-and-new-310-engine-eicma-news/
(Info: Steve Oliver = CEO Royal Alloy)

At least the ECU is different.
RA = Bosch
Piaggio = Magneti Marelli MIUG4

edit: No longer convinced that this information is correct. I fear that "ECU" and "EFI" were confused in the source. Royal Alloy states that the EFI is from Bosch.

I assumed that was the case.

Same asshole notion that, fifty years ago, had Honda calling their 999cc flat four a 1000. Effing liars!!!

can't help myself ...

Using Piaggio's specs of 75 x 70.1 gives 309.69 which rounds to 310. But if it was actually 70.05 rounded to 70.1 then it is 309.47 -> 309

Also working backwards from the 309.3 that RA claims you end up with 70.01

So if it truely is the same engine then which company does dodgy rounding of the bore and/or cc?

And yes I'm ignoring manufacturing tolerances and heat expansion ...

I wonder if the Bosch is more reliable than the MIUG4. The TPS has failed in three of mine so far.

Please read my edited post above.

Bosch Motronic MSE6.0 ECU (made in China written on the sticker).

https://www.facebook.com/groups/728963891206891/posts/2003499403753327/

So therefore a separate throttle body instead of the combined unit like the miu series that piaggio loves.

(Separate like this seems a better idea to me).

No, RA are utilising and modifying the older GTS engine, not sure which one though, probably pre HPE but that's just a guess.

Sounds plausible. Would probably also have larger valves than the pre-HPE

And look at this Italjet dragster it is a mix , lower end quasar , top HPE

I'd rather not, The Dragster is as ugly as a burnt Pizza

No it's very nice

Lets just agree to disagree on that one.

Burnt pizza is quite nice with a spread of Marmite

What isn't?

When I first left home and was living on my own, I came home from work and cooked and ate a pizza.

I didnt burn it as such. I just didnt spot the polystyrene base and cooked that too. I was half way through eating it when I thought " this tastes odd"

Happy dayz

Do you know for a fact the Royal Alloy 350 is not the Piaggio 310, or is this also a guess?

Yes because the Piaggio 310 is a new 310cc engine.

The Royal Alloy salesman stated their engine was not made in Italy and was a stock 278cc engine which the chinese modified to increase the capacity to 309cc

It would have been easier to buy Piaggio units wouldn't it rather than get the old engine and make it into a new engine when Piaggio has already done that for you.

It would also make it a bit more Italian rather than Chinese.

I don't think it would be wise for Piaggio to sell off a load of brand new engines to a competitor who would go on to undercut the Vespa with a Lambretta lookalike.

Far better to flog them the older and less efficient Quasar lumps.

Well they would make money on the engines and Royal Alloy sell in such low numbers it wouldn't make a dent in their sales.

So you've been told this by people selling these bikes. Okay. What's interesting then is that a lot of parts that fit the new Piaggio 310 also fit the new Royal Alloy, but do not fit the 300 HPE. Sounds like Royal Alloy guessed, with remarkably accuracy, how Piaggio was going to increase the displacement of the engine, and then did the exact same modifications to the pre-HPE 300.

Mate, instead of questioning me just watch the video below and make your own mind up.

Thanks for posting Coddy, interesting video and line of questioning 👍

so exactly how are are they less efficient?

RA 350 is 75x70
the vespa 310 is 75x70.1

so RA measured .1mm less on stroke , hmmmm wonder if that is intentional as to not be exactly them same as the vespa? wonder if its a corporate thing we will sell you this but it has to be different than ours kinda thing.

.1mm shorter declared then will that work for you piaggio?

RA rounded the displacement up a little bit, they might have rounded down the stroke as well.

Giggity.

wish some one would have the 2 scooters side by side and then pull the engines and do some mic checking on them

Can see from the video the case on the RA is Quasar, maybe RA is using this variant?

Interesting, is an HPE top end simply bolt on to Quasar motor?

The HPE was the top end, mainly the head. The bottom end didn't really change, though Piaggio did beef up the variator and shorten the belt. And they moved the dipstick, in order to stick the noise abatement cover over the variator cover. The variator cover is not the engine.

The 310 has an offset piston, which is necessary to increase the stroke. Mechanically, there wasn't room to lengthen the connecting rod by 15mm on the HPE and make it a 310 without offsetting the piston.
The heads for the HPE are made in China, as are entire Quasar and HPE engines, so it's likely parts for the 310 are made in the same factory, no matter where it is finally assembled. That's likely what the guy in the RA video was alluding to.
Anyone know where the dipstick is on the RA 350?
I dug around a bit on Aliexpress, and Piaggio 250 and 300 engines are plentiful. But I didn't see one with the right side dipstick. I did see some piaggio cylinders that look like they were cut away for an offside piston. And there's a company in Mississippi selling brand new Royal Enfield 350s for about 800.

As you mention ,
It does look like a collaboration with the factory producing the royal alloy,
The parts are all branded piaggio and vespa parts do interchange,
I have put the full malossi 282 v4 on a royal alloy, and transmission which up to 2021 have used the longer belt,
The longer stroke was the next step looking at the evolution so far,
Just curious if they have considered space for an increase beyond 75 mm bore in the re jig of the castings with the mention of 350,,
Looking at the polini 77 mm cylinder, maybe they would do a compatible piston in the future for a kit,
it does look a thin wall liner not sure on durability,

I went to a 2022 hpe which doesn't burn oil and has a bit more power,
For touring it works,
the lower rpm power does feel relaxed on the 310,
that said i am not feeling the need to change,

Now I'll admit that I don't have the technical knowledge to bring any historic mechanical stats to the conversation but I found it very interesting when the Salesman did everything to avoid saying the word "China" when asked where the engine came from.

Typical Old School obfuscation and redirection being deployed by a member of the Sales Team when they realise the Customer actually knows more than them.

That guy should be selling Used Cars off a Lot.

He says that a 309 can be marketed as a 350 and that's just bullshit.

Personally I think that they are a dog's dinner. It's an inferior copy. Nothing more.

Styling Cues from Lambretta, Engine from a Vespa and a footplate so thin it looks dangerous with a radiator bolted on as an afterthought.

They painted it black so your eyes wouldn't be drawn to its ugliness. Just awful.

On fuel economy.