Modern Vespa

Tilt lock issue:


Symptoms:
1. It won't unlock
2. As soon as I turn the ignition on, my horn sounds 4-5 times ( pretty annoying )
3. It is followed by a non-stop beep from the tilt lock
4. The red warning light is on for the tilt lock
5. Doesn't accept throttle

I first tried charging the battery, but it didn't help.

I also tried the small one using a flat-headed screwdriver to turn the little screw on the tilt-lock motor, but it won't move in any way. I tried with slight pressure on the side by tilting the whole bike, I just ended up warping the tip of the screwdriver.

After I got around to removing the parts of the front plastics, i realised that the hydraulic oil container is empty, so im clearly missing the fluid.

My question now is, can I bleed the system without removing the tilt-lock motor, as it appears to be stuck in place and not moving in any direction?

Are there any steps I need to follow to refill the system with fluid again?

Also, for the piece of my neighborhood I wanted to remove the fuse for the horn, but removing the fuse #9 does not stop it from firing each time I turn on the ignition, and to unhook it from the actual horn, I need to remove the bottom plastic, but I would like to avoid that.
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Just to state that 2000km ago, I flushed all the fluids and followed the procedure in bleeding the tilt-lock system. Also before it failed, I got a couple of times my horn turning on when i was starting the engine, it was probably somewhat of a sign that I stupidly ignored.

Most likely the tilt lock pressure sensor is leaking.

Check for traces and find the source

Also, how did you flush it?

The usual way, topping it up and keeping the level of oil above the bottom, engaging lock following by loosening the bleed screw followed by tightening it and unlocking, and a couple of times on each side while the fluid looked new.

Im on my phone now, can you guide me to the location of the tilt lock pressure sensor?

That's not how to do it. You still have air in the lines. You have to backfill, starting from each of the bleed nipples.

Follow the hydraulic lines to find the pressure sensor. Look for the steering rod, the sensor is located just ahead of it.

So i just discovered that the pressure sensor is leaking from the bottom, I see a little bit of oil…

Now just to figure out what is the correct process of replacing it and refilling the system with fluid.

In general the process is easy. Have the brake fluid a little below the sensor (to reduce the mess with brake fluid as is corrosive in the paint, etc), disconnect the electric connector, remove old sensor, put a new one refill brake fluid. The times I change it don't require a extra bleed, only activate and deactivate a couple of times the tiltlock and complete the fluid and is done.

On my 2010 MP3 400 I can turn the axis of the tilt lock motor easily with a screwdriver in the unlocked position.

Initially mine was stuck, it turned out to be caused by a damaged gearwheel in the gearbox directly mounted on the electric motor.

Some theeth were damaged. I managed to "repair" it by removing the gearwheel and place it back 180 ° turned.

I tried that, and i destroyed 2 screwdrivers tips, as the thing just wont move in any direction.

Do you have any hints on removing the motor in case i end up needeing to do that?

Are we talking about the same screw?

It is shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=825iqly0Ah4
It is in French, but it it pretty clear what the procedure is.

To remove it, first you have to umount the potentiometer on front of the gearbox. It is important to put everything back in exactly the same position.
The shaft of the gearbox for the potentiometer has a flat side. So I marked its position with pen on the gearbox. I also put some tape on the rotating part of the potentiometer to prevent it from turning while hanging loose. And also marked the position of the flat side of the hole for the axis on the potentiometer to be sure.

After removing the potentiometer you see 3 allenbolts, these go trough the main gearbox to the rear and hold the electric motor and its little gearbox in place. When you loosen these 3 bolts you can slide the motor plus its gearbox out of the big gearbox and service it on the workbench.

It is a motor for whiperblades on cars. Piaggio buys them from a company called OSLV, their brand and partnumber is labeled on your motor.

My plan was, if I had not been able to repair it, buying it directly from OSLV They sell it at approx. half the price:
https://care.oslv.com/products/c9900463/3-87.html
Disclaimer: I have not tried it myself, so I can not 100% guarantee it is the same. But the partnumbers match those on the motor on my MP3.

So the winter is ower and I need to fix this, the plan is to do it next weekend. I have the new sensor, but im wondering how can i bleed the system if the motor is stuck?

And I have read on some places that briefly applying 12v on the tilt motor connection together with second person trying to move the screw has helped it getting unstuck. Also it is advisable to spary brake fluid into the motor itself through the lines, and let it soak overnight, it might be dry inside.

Any thoughts on this approach?

Not brake fluid! A mix of acetone and ATF (automatic transmission fluid) works best.

Hi. I had the same problem. I posted a video on YouTube on how to fix it and how the roll lock works. Watch it, it's sure to help. But if you hear a horn sound, a loud beep, beep, beep, then it definitely means a lack of pressure in the roll lock system. Check if there's DOT 4 fluid in the roll lock reservoir. If not, refill it. While sitting on the seat, quickly turn the lock switch to the right and left a few times until it starts working. It will beep at first, but it should even gently bleed itself after a while. If not, you need to bleed the roll lock. I also recorded a video about that; there's an English translation on YouTube.

I'm from Poland, best regards.

P.S. I dream of visiting LA, CA. I'll do so when I finish building my house .


Repair

Bleeding Roll Lock
Greetings

Hi ADAS, this is really valuable content, thank you soo much!

I will probably go for the weekend to replace the sensor and fill the system with oil, but i doubt it will work since nothing is happening when i add 12v directly on motor, i dont see why it would move with new sensor, but maybe im wrong.

The dissasemble of the full motor looks like a big job...

OK and do you have a recommendation of how to put the oil in it, should i remove all the pipes coming to it and use syrindge or someting like that?

Its simple system. Iff you add 12 v directly to motor -+ and otherwise +- and nothing happen its stock because corrosion on shaft water go inside mechanism roll lock.... give like I am rubber oring and grease on shaft when enter from motor to mechanism.... or motor fail maybe brushed its over. Motor its the same as fiat punto 1 2 or 3 wipers. Motor simple repair brushed bought on Aliee.. and diy custom. Mechanism must work whennyou give direct 12v... iff not dont search other things.

The acetone and ATF mixture is for freeing up stuck components, nuts and bolts etc. NOT for the hydraulic system, which is of course DOT4 brake fluid.

I will elaborate on the 50/50 mix, after mixing pour into a spray bottle with a threaded adjustable nozzle tip that can be a stream to a fan type spray.

Quick update on the tilt lock fix — thought I'd share in case it helps someone else.

I was all set to remove and disassemble the tilt lock motor and hydraulic pump this morning, but my brother suggested we first try to unstick it by turning the large screw on the mechanism (I believe it's a #13 socket). I moved it back and forth a few times, and sure enough, it came unstuck.

After that, I replaced the sensor, topped up the oil, and bled the system. The beeping stopped after about 10 cycles on the right side and 7 on the left. I took it for a test drive, and it worked like a charm. Reassembled everything, did another test drive, and all is good.

So if anyone else runs into the same issue, it's worth trying to free it up by turning that key screw instead of messing with the small screw on the motor itself.

I wouldn't recommend loosening the No. 13 screw to turn the engine. As you can see, the screw is driven by gears, and these are driven by a plastic worm gear, and the worm is driven by the engine shaft. So, while this mechanism does have a thick spring, I wouldn't recommend doing it loosely. Once you're done with the sensor, it's best to loosen the engine and the entire mechanism with a flat screwdriver about 3-4mm wide. There's a slot for it at the bottom. Then, using the screwdriver, you can gently move the engine left or right. Sometimes the shaft gets stuck, which is the plastic worm gear, when it hasn't been used in a while, and water often gets in there. Nevertheless, I'm glad you told me how you fixed it and that it works.

I didnt losen it, i just used it to unstuck the mechanism, and it worked fine, it was not really needed to do much pressue, it was just a gentle push front and back, and voila, after that the engine was moving the thing, and after bleeding of the system, the beeping stopped.

Alex 87.... Ok;)

But your videos are great, they actually gave me the currage to start doing it myself. The fact that I didnt need to remove the whole tilt lock system is just a lucky event

I encourage you to do them on english, even if its bad english, its much better than using CC translation.

On YouTube, turn on subtitles in your native language. You know, I record in Polish, in my language, and I could record in English, but you know, filming two language versions is so-so... and as far as watching what you're talking about, subtitles are fine. I sometimes watch Asian films with subtitles and it's okay, like Korean dramas. Although I don't have much time for that.