Modern Vespa

The service manual I have says that the four head nuts that hold the head down should be torqued to 10-12 nm. This sounds very low. Can someone confirm whether this is correct or not? Thanks.

Maybe I'm just too used to working in in/lbs and ft/lbs. Lol.

I'm not sure in yours specifically, but for the 2019 MP3 500 is 7.4 lb*ft (10 Nm with a pre-torque of 7 Nm or 5.2 lb*ft. The manual have a wrong Nm to lb*ft conversion) + 90 degrees + 90 degrees. I'm sharing the corresponding diagram from my workshop manual

OK, thank you. Guess I'm too used to working on American V8's.

also, the workshop manual for a gts300hpe says to lubricate the stud bolts first. (otherwise torque values will be wrong)

For reasons unknown, a lot of people used Shell Rotella in these engines, which is primarily designed for diesel engines. The high level of calcium in the additive packages used in Diesel motor oil has been known to cause preignition and blow out the top ring groove of the piston in direct injection gas engines. This might or might not be relevant to your engine failure, but it is something to be aware of when you put the bike back together.

shell T6 meets the piaggio spec.

on the calcium levels your trying to mash that with or against shell T6 and its wrong

Shell Rotella T6 has a much lower calcium level compared to other oils, such as Amsoil, because it uses higher levels of magnesium as its primary detergent/dispersant additive

The previous owner of my bike had just changed the engine oil before I bought it. I believe the oil he used was Motul. I plan to use Valvoline for future oil changes. I've used Valvoline synthetic for years and have been very happy with it.

And fortunately, magnesium doesn't burn.

The issue is not how much calcium is in the additive package compared to Amsoil, it's how much is in it compared to the typical additive package in motorcycle, or even automobile motor oil. As far as I can tell from reading this https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en/3b8749b5-338a-4f6e-976d-8b4da2269f9c.pdf , in addition to not actually having been tested by JASO, which is where the idea that Rotella meets Piaggio specs started, Rotella doesn't have an API S rating, like SN, or SL.
Curious about what the S in that rating means? Let's google it. https://www.google.com/search?q=what+does+the+s+in+motor+oil+ratings+stand+for

How many JASO MA or MB oils don't have an API S rating?
From about 12:30 these guys explain it so much better than I can.
It would be interesting to know how many of the people who experienced piston failure in the MP3 500 were Rotella users vs how many used motorcycle oils.

Well, since you asked. I bought my 2008 500 new, first oil change was done at 100 miles, next was the 600 mile change, then from there out oil changes were done between 4000-6000 miles, depending on time of year and if I was going for a long couple days riding. All were done with shell rosella T6 5-40 and highflo oil filters. sold it just shy of 40K miles,

Never once had oil blow by or excessive oil consumption.

Valves were adjusted around 12K and checked every 12K with no change.

Plugs were changed at 12K intervals and always looked very clean and dry.

I did not baby the scoot and twisted the throttle pretty good on it when I rode it except when doing a gathering ride and having to back off to keep the group together.

just got done watching the video and explanation of the oil comparison , they did had alot of good data and explained the differences really well.

so while I personally had no issues with T6 maybe it was a factor in some folks LOW speed use and subsequent faults.

Also note I changed oil more frequently than alot of folks who might have pushed mileage limits higher than I did. Don't know if that could be a factor as well as less soot build up when changing more often.

I will look deeper into this

Thank you for posting the Videos Motovista. Oh the link for the shell one came back as broken and could not open it

It is the technical sheet from Shell that shows Rotella T6 doesn't have an API S rating. API C rated oils, like Rotella, are for engines that ignite the fuel mixture via compression, as in diesel engines. API S rated oils are for Spark ignition engines. I have no idea how Shell is able to claim a motor oil that is not rated for use in engines that ignite the mixture via spark would meet JASO standards for motorcycle engines, unless there's a whole bunch of diesel motorcycles in Japan that just haven't made it over here yet.

how does shell make a multi use oil for both gas and diesel ?
Shell Rotella® MV 5W-30 Full Synthetic Diesel Oil

Even though I've more or less convinced myself that the piston is toast due to the failed leakdown test, I decided to take a look in the cylinder bore anyway with a endoscope. Found a lot of carbon build up on the head, but more importantly, found debris seemingly coming from between the piston and the cylinder wall. Or it could just be carbon that fell off the head. Guess I'll know for sure once I get the piston/cylinder pulled.

I've always said that motorcycle engines need oil designed for motorcycles.

Throwing in a oil with the correct weight is only a fraction of the equation.

My MP3 only gets Piaggio approved oil, and my Hondas only get Honda approved oil even though both take the same oil weight and both are JASO approved

piaggio approved is what oil again? they have had so many different brands they have used since I have owned a piaggio product since 2008.

Agip-eni brand 5W-40. When the Piaggio OE oil is not readily available, then I use Agip-eni i-Ride Racing 5W-40. Liqui Moly also used to have a Piaggio approved oil, but I can't find that at this moment. Either way, all 3 are fully Piaggio approved

Maybe you guys should start your own oil argument thread....

And elsewhere!

Reviewing the workshop manual for something else, I saw an image that reminded me of a post where someone asked about those blue cables, so here is the answer to that question:

They are for the Helmet Compartment Lighting Switch, image from the workshop manual to help

Ah, makes sense since the light switch is missing. Thank you.

It's not an oil argument thread.

As the video pointed out, it's all about using the correct oil for the correct application.

Oil is like blood, just because (blood) is red does not mean it is the correct type.

Likewise, you don't put oil from WallyMart developed for a 16 wheeler into a motorcycle for the same reasons you don't put oil engineered for a snowmobile into a car.

Just to set the record straight, my Piaggio MP3 only gets Piaggio OE oil (supplied by Agip-Eni), Agip-eni iRide Racing, or Liqui Moly (Piaggio variant) in that order of preference and availability.

My Hondas get Motul pretty much exclusively since they are easiest to source. 300V for the ST1300 (I know, way overkill but I got a batch at a smoking price) and Motul 5100 for the ST1100. The backup choices are Idemitsu (primary oil supplier to all Japanese manufacturers) and Honda OE oil.

And my Honda Accord wagon turbodiesel gets fed with Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3(Emissions Control Technology) to protect and keep the diesel particulate filter in tiptop shape
No Castrol garbage is ever going into any of my vehicles.

Maybe this:
https://www.bludlubricants.com/

PS, my 2019 GTS came with a Castrol sticker in the pet carrier and also recommends it in the manual.

Piaggio changes its oil supplier recommendations from time to time according to who gives them the best deal. It's not as though they employ their own critical chemists to decide what to use.

Just business.

I give up. I just use the freshest olive oil in my Italian bikes and call it a day.

^True, and sometimes they factory fill with a oil brand that differs from the sticker they stick on somewhere on the vehicle.

BUT they don't factory fill their bikes with a oil type made for a 16 wheel diesel truck.

you realize using olive oil is old technology.

its all about avocado oil now. it has a higher smoke temp,

Nah, my Italian bike would never put up with avocado oil in its pasta, err, I mean engine.

when I worked at my dad Suzuki dealership when I was a kid, we always drained the engine transmission oil from the factory. smelled like fish oil. and looked clearish, nothing like the kendall we used. Oh this was on 2 strokes so it was transmission oil only. we always used the suzuki injection oil in the oil tank for the mix.