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Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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Molto Verboso
@mayorofnow avatar
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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I've just arrived in Portland, ME. Before this tour started I replaced my battery with a lithium ion, and had the shop do a full service with belt change.

A few times today, I've noticed some combination of these gremlins:

- the speedometer is stuck at 0,
- the ABS light is solid yellow, and
- the clock is unreadably dim (like a dying battery on an old TIGER game).

I haven't picked up on a pattern yet. Sometimes it's all 3 symptoms, and sometimes just one or two. My riding companion tells me my headlight is still on, and thankfully the throttle is still working. It seems more likely to happen when I'm accelerating, but it's also happened when coasting. It's intermittent within the same ride (it'll just start/stop working while I'm riding).

The Scooterwest USB rig reads 13V with the engine off.

Bike is 6 years old, and has only had a couple big rides since 2022.

I really don't want to crash or be stranded. I'd like to have the instruments work, and not do any permanent damage.

Thoughts on what I should look for? Is the random battery I got from Amazon not up to snuff? Did the mechanic leave a loose connection somewhere? Do I need to find a shop while we're here?
@steelbytes avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS 300 HPE w Malossi
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@steelbytes avatar
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mayorofnow wrote:
had the shop do a full service with belt change.

A few times today, I've noticed some combination of these gremlins:

- the speedometer is stuck at 0,
- the ABS light is solid yellow, and
*rear* abs sensor.
2019 Vespa GTS 300 Super ABS Icon / ASR / Engine Icon illumi
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Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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Molto Verboso
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So relatively safe to ride, but the ABS might not work?

Seems weird that the LCD is also going out if it's a sensor calibration issue.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS 300 HPE w Malossi
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mayorofnow wrote:
So relatively safe to ride, but the ABS might not work?

Seems weird that the LCD is also going out if it's a sensor calibration issue.
speedo stuck at zero has to be sensor (or battery which I'm assuming you have tested enough ... *including while engine running*)
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Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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Molto Verboso
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SteelBytes wrote:
(or battery which I'm assuming you have tested enough ... *including while engine running*)
Honestly, I'm on tour. All I've done is check the voltage reading at the USB harness, and make sure the battery was firmly connected.
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Started after replacing the battery?
Battery should be ok. So, how about the battery connections, tight ????
That would give correct readings but a bit of bouncing on the road would give strange results.
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Molto Verboso
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Clampett wrote:
the battery connections, tight ????
Yeah, that's the first thing I checked. Looks like the mechanics even replaced the bolts that were originally in there.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS 300 HPE w Malossi
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mayorofnow wrote:
check the voltage reading at the USB harness
Which can be done while the bike is idling on the stand ...
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Molto Verboso
'16 Sprint S 150, 2 x '06 GTS 250, '12 GTS 300, '74 Vespa 150 Super
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If still in Portland area, contact CC Scooters in Kennebunk. He has a code scanner which may provide some insight
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Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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wbdvt wrote:
If still in Portland area, contact CC Scooters in Kennebunk. He has a code scanner which may provide some insight
Thanks!

I gave him a call. Sounds like he's out of stock on batteries, but I might go down there tomorrow to at least get a diagnosis.
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Molto Verboso
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It rained today, and it's supposed to rain hard on Thursday when we're meant to ride north. Hoping to get this resolved before I need my ABS to work.

Just ran downstairs during a break from the rain to see if I could gain any more insight.

When on the centerstand, if I hold the throttle a babybit open, the engine revs up to 10mph every 5 seconds and then coasts back down.

The USB readout crept up to 14.5V while I was doing this.

I looked under the bucket and didn't see the connector Robot referenced in his electrical diagnosis video, but I did see the connections marked in yellow chalk in the first photo, and the one I zoomed in on in the second photo. Neither were loose.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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Gemini was convinced it couldn't possibly be the battery, until I reminded it I got the Amazon Special, and now it's even more convinced that it is the battery.

The guy at the local Batteries Plus said I could ride around with a replacement and return it within 14 days if the voltage is still good. Will probably try that tomorrow and see if the gremlins go away.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS 300 HPE w Malossi
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mayorofnow wrote:
When on the centerstand, if I hold the throttle a babybit open, the engine revs up to 10mph every 5 seconds and then coasts back down.
did you remember to turn off ASR? if you did turn off asr and it was going up and down itself (regardless of throttle open a bit) then you've probably got an air leak.
mayorofnow wrote:
The USB readout crept up to 14.5V while I was doing this.
14.5 while running is good.
mayorofnow wrote:
I looked under the bucket and didn't see connector. Robot referenced in his electrical diagnosis video, but I did see the connections marked in yellow chalk in the first photo, and the one I zoomed in on in the second photo. Neither were loose.
your first photo is the coil connector. your second is grounding. what connectors were you looking for (reffing a 14min video is not something I can watch in the cafe where I am right now)
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Molto Verboso
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SteelBytes wrote:
did you remember to turn off ASR?
I did not. Tires seem perfect - read 27/36 (as recced by the door sticker), 800 miles after service.
SteelBytes wrote:
what connectors were you looking for (reffing a 14min video is not something I can watch in the cafe where I am right now)
Robot said to check that all permutations of a 3 prong connector under the seat pivot read ~18V. It was white in the video, but I didn't see a white connector there in the HPE.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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mayorofnow wrote:
I did not.
You must turn off ASR when using the throttle on the centre stand. If you don't then the ASR gets confused because only one wheel is turning and it will then interfere. Even the user manual says to do this.
User manual
User manual
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Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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Haven't had any issues since replacing the battery. This was Gemini's explanation.
Gemini wrote:
Timeline: 1 Hour Ride > 15 Minute Break > 2 Hour Ride (Symptoms Emerge)

1. The Undersized Battery is Depleted (1 Hour Ride)

* The Problem: Your Vespa GTS HPE (a high-performance, modern scooter) is designed to run with a ~10 Ah battery. Your 4Ah KITTYROC battery is operating with less than half the required capacity.

* Effect: Over the first hour, the scooter's charging system is running, but because the battery is so small, it has a tiny reserve. The engine and charging system are keeping the voltage stable, but the battery is working near its limits.

2. The Stress Point (15 Minute Break)

* No Fault Yet: You shut down the engine, and the 15-minute break is too short for the battery to "recover" or cool down significantly.

* The Restart: When you restart for the second, longer ride, the small battery has to handle the massive surge (cranking amps) for the start-up sequence. It manages this, but this high-current draw stresses the cells and briefly dips the voltage lower than normal.

3. The Sustained Thermal & Electrical Failure (2 Hour Ride)

* The Mechanism: This two-hour continuous run is what killed the electronics. While the alternator is charging, the constant heat generated by both the engine bay and the undersized battery (due to its high internal resistance under load) causes its performance to rapidly degrade.

* Internal Resistance: As lithium-ion batteries heat up, their internal resistance increases, which makes it harder for them to deliver power without a voltage drop (known as Voltage Sag).

* Load Stress: The electrical systems of the Vespa (ECU, lights, fuel injection) are constantly demanding power. After two continuous hours of this demanding load, the undersized battery's ability to provide stable voltage is exhausted.

* The Crash: At the end of the two-hour ride, or perhaps upon a small transient load (like tapping the brake, or slowing down), the already weakened battery experiences a fatal Voltage Sag. The voltage dips below the critical operating threshold (e.g., 9V-10V) required by the sensitive ABS/ASR controller.

* The Result: The ABS system interprets this voltage sag as a system failure, not a temporary dip. It switches off, taking the speedometer with it, and leaves you with the solid ABS light and the dim clock (evidence of low-voltage damage).

Conclusion: The total run time of three hours (1 + 2) under load overheated and exhausted the undersized 4Ah battery, causing a critical and irreversible voltage sag that triggered the permanent fault in the ABS/Speedo system.
The fix remains the same: Replace the KITTYROC 4Ah battery with a quality, correctly-sized 10Ah (YTX12-BS or equivalent) battery to prevent this failure from happening again.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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mayorofnow wrote:
Haven't had any issues since replacing the battery. This was Gemini's explanation.
My affordable one is also 4ah and have been riding for 18 months happily ...

Lithium battery for GTS
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Gemini is talking bollocks. The capacity is relatively unimportant (unless having to try to start many many times and constantly failing) - it's the current delivery and voltage performance that matters.

Just because Gemini says it's a problem doesn't make it true!
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS 300 HPE w Malossi
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jimc wrote:
Gemini is talking bollocks
The "weird shit I saw today" thread (Post 2756068)
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Molto Verboso
2020 GTS 300 HPE
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
jimc wrote:
Gemini is talking bollocks.
That's entirely unsurprising. It's an autocomplete genie that does a better job at mimicking thought than approximating it.

I had to prod it last night to get it to write that. I had a memory of it saying that something in the Vespa could get hot over time and that that would make it more sensitive about the battery, but I couldn't find a record of it yesterday to post here.

All I can say is that I've never had that problem before (of the speedometer, clock, and/or ABS not getting enough power to function). I replaced the battery, and haven't seen it since. 🤷‍♂️
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2007 GTS
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WTF is gemini and why are you listening to it, they, them or whatever?

when buying batteries it matters to buy quality, those el cheapo off amazon or elsewhere are boge junk crap. oh but i save $100 buying one, yup you did and now you gotta buy another. Hmmm.

have had an antigravity in my GTS 250 since prepping for the 2020 SCBR. in 2019. still in it and no issues, don't even put it on a charger in the winter time. It goes in to hibernate mode and when I turn the key on it wakes up and cranks the scooter up.

for 2025 I bought a back up optima that I carried with me thinking I am about due for the battery to laydown, nope no issues the entire 8 days.

The optima has excellent reviews and is a tiny lithium unit that also can stay in a storage off state till you push the button and activate it. You can also put it back to storage mode during the off season when not in use. Pretty darn cool feature.

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