Modern Vespa

Hi all I might need a replacement engine for my 300 super sport due to high oil consumption v the cost at garage of a rebuild are the more modern engines compatible as a straight swap into a 2017 frame ?

There is a totaled model available on the forum, rear ended

If that's the Ann Arbor one, the OP is in the UK I believe.

Straight swap? I think not. Not a mechanical fit problem but rather an electrical issue. For starters the hpe has a different ecu and there's a real chance the pin outs are different (but i haven't check the wiring diagram)

Straight swap will be up to 2018.

HPE motor will fit, same mounts, but will take more than the motor to make it work.

Robot talks about purchasing a complete engine from Vespa

You can buy the entire engine on Alibaba for about $800 plus shipping.

Do a search for a 300S engine. Most of them are 250ccs, but there are a few that are 300ccs. Those will be ZS1P75. the 75 is the bore in mm.

here's a link
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Piaggio-Nexus300s-300cc-Engine-Water-cooling_1600885539084.html

That is a cheap CHINESE knock-off.

It IS NOT a quality Italian made Piaggio engine. 🤦‍♂️

You would be gullible to think it is the same as an OEM engine.

The motor in the Robot video, is a 2023 GTS HPE2 300 Real Italian Piaggio motor. $1495 brand new. Fits 2020-2025

Save yourself aggravation and heartache.

Spend the extra $ and buy OEM. You will be much much happier. 👌👍🤞

let's not discuss how many parts of a modern vespa engine are manufactured in China ... Some people may be upset

I'm not sure what your point is.

I know that those two engines are not even remotely alike.

A little extra "fun" ...

One of the most expensive components on my gts has failed three times. I wonder what country it comes from? Hint: it isn't China.

But let's not let racism become part of this thread.

These engines are legit Zongshen - Piaggio and same quality as the "Italians". Zongshen is Piaggio's partner for years now for the Asian market. Guess where the HPE cylinders (the ones that burnt oil and the later improved ones) are made…

P.S. Italian and quality don't go together…

Are you actually trying to insinuate that Piaggio is installing Chinese made engines in the factory in Pontedera? Curious, I was just at the factory last September and October. I missed that briefing.

I also watched carefully the video in the link, and there isn't a Piaggio logo anywhere on that engine. Hmm.

The add for the Chinese engine states you can return it if not happy. That should only cost you about $500 shipping back to China.

The factory Piaggio engine will ship to your local dealer and likely come with a warranty of some time period, good at a factory authorized repair facility.

You of course may do as you wish but I would suspect as has been my experience, that the factory engine will be 100% correct in every way.

YMMV

As to the "Italian and quality don't go together", I utterly disagree.

I have been owning and wrenching Italian motorcycles for decades.

When properly maintained and not ham-fisted, the equipment is of excellent quality.

Sure, any component of any manufacturer of any country can have issues. Mechanical and electric components never have a 100% perfection rate.

However, I've yet to see any Chinese made product that sells for what a Piaggio, Vespa, Moto Guzzi, Gilera, Aprilia, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo, etc sells for and lasts as long.

Why is that? Must be that terrible Italian quality. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

No. Engines in Italy are made in Italy but most of the parts come from the Zongshen factory in China. Parts destined for Piaggio scooters have the stamping, parts for the Chinese market Zongshen scooters don't have the Piaggio stamping but they're the same. It's called globalization…

I've been to the factory several times.

My experience and actual witnessing of the assembly process, tells me a different story than you are.

FWIW: My Executive MBA research project was on Piaggio and C. SpA.

Spent time at the Pontedera and Mandello Del Lario factories.

We had the Piaggio authorized service point from 1992 to 2017 in our town till my father retired. We've been to the factory many times too. Quality has been dropping over the years, especially since they started sourcing parts from China. Believe what you want, I have my own opinion on the company…

Oil is pretty cheap really.

Then why would you be promoting the purchase of a Chinese engine for $800 plus shipping versus a Piaggio Factory engine on your local dealers doorstep for $1495?

You're arguing with yourself I guess…

Dunno, but I guess this is the same as Citroens had: light thing piston rings were wanted to have as little as possible wear and power lost, and then there is the oil going thru.
So:it is not te pistons at all, it is the rings used. You could say so, or that quality and English do that, or American and quality, or French and quality and...
We perhaps have to just settle to Greece made ones! ;-D

What?

One second, you are claiming they are the same, and the next you claim this - "Quality has been dropping over the years, especially since they started sourcing parts from China."

Which is it? They are diametrically opposed statements.

All of this hooplah…. Do you just like to have contention? I don't.

My only point that I really wanted to make was that for the money, the factory engine is better in every single regard.

That's it.

Good luck to the OP with his Vespa, whatever choice they decide upon.

Quality currently is the same since most parts are now made in China. It has been dropping though compared to how they started when they were sourcing parts from Italy or had better parts suppliers…

FYI, OEM engine goes for €4671 in Europe…

Yet here you are again.

On this we are in agreement. I believe that globalization (i.e. buying stuff from China) is the downfall of any vehicle manufacturer.

In my workshop daily, I get frustrated just at the abysmal metallurgic quality of the bolts I get from Piaggio for Piaggio, Moto Guzzi and Aprilia motorcycles I work on.

I have brand new bolts break on me all the time. They are truly hit and miss a lot of the time.

This is what happens when engineers are thwarted by beancounters unfortunately.

Good discussion. Thanks. Peace.

You have 11,000+ posts.

I have 55.

Isn't the point of a forum, to post and make conversation?

Did I miss something here? I'm confused.

Ouch. That sucks.

Looking back over the posts, the OP is in the UK.

That is unfortunate.

Not fighting...

I was under the impression that it was the rings at fault not the cylinder (and no idea who makes them or where).

(Our German friend posted the part numbers of the old vs new rings somewhere).

They did change the rings initially but we've seen the same consumption on an engine where we replaced only the rings. Since they also changed the cylinder kit part number, we can't be sure what they actually did. They're definitely made in China though, casting and machining quality is nowhere near to older cylinders made by Gilardoni or other Italian manufacturers. Parts list for the 310 show two codes for each ring. One set has the same codes as the 300 and the other reference the manufacturer as "Fujian Hua"…

Regrettably, they are not the only manufacturer of PTWs that are cutting corners. Royal Enfield is one of a very few that keeps getting better. But, to be honest, they were way down on the quality scale for a long, long while. You might say they had no where to go but up.

It is the OEM engine, made with Piaggio tooling at a Chinese company. If you order a new 250 or 300 cc non-HPE engine, this is pretty much what you will get. Piaggio copied Honda's playbook for dealing with the Chinese, give them your old tooling so they don't try to reverse engineer your new stuff, and buy spare parts from them. It also appears that the new 310 is being made in China and already showing up in non-Piaggio products.
The liquid cooled GTS 125 engine that has a radiator on the side and looks like it was made by Yamaha, has never been made in Italy. The engines in the Chinese made Piaggio Fly and Aprilia SR Motard and Aprilia SR MAX 300 are also made in China. This is the engine you get when you buy any Aprilia 300cc Chinese made scooter.