Modern Vespa

Greetings,


Starting a new thread here about impact wrenches. Removing the axle nut was a chore, to change out the flat tire I just had last Friday. It would have been a lot easier if I had an impact wrench, and seeing how I am starting to do work on the bike, on my own again (story for another time), it would be nice to have.

A few months ago, I changed the oil and the oil drain plug was on too tight. Rather than strip it, I took it the shop and they used the impact wrench to get it off. So the more I ride, the more use I have for the tool.

I know the axle nut is held on with 80 ft/lbs of torque, I presume any figure north of that for a wrench would work? Some I looked at are 590, 740, 600? What's needed?

All the ones I looked at online were 1/2 inch. Also most wrenches come with sockets, some most of what I would need, some missing the 24 for the axle.
To add an individual socket is 7-10 bucks, so no biggy if I buy a wrench without one that I need.

Also, for the use on the Vespa, deep sockets or shallow?

Thanks for your input.

Don't think i ever have needed a deep.

If using an impact then should use impact sockets not normal.

My big torque wrench is 30-210 Nm, highest needed is 120 for the axel. It's a cheapy as not panicked about accuracy for anything that uses big numbers.

My old Harbor Freight Chicago Electric plug impact works fine for most everything I need. Yes, it is heavy and not too maneuverable in tight spaces, but it's inexpensive and sturdy. Definitely use impact sockets with it.

I have a Ryobi 1/2 impact driver, I rarely use it. I prefer using my torque wrench, I also have a 1/2 inch breaker bar that I extend with a steel pipe to break things like the wheel nut.
I find that while impact drivers may make it easier, I feel that using hand tools allows me to feel the tightening of nuts & also I take my time doing things.
If you going to buy a 1/2 inch impact driver, then get something like a Makita/Milwaukee they seem to be of good quality.
Tekton makes a good set of impact sockets.

I've owned 3 large frame Vespas and have worked on a fair amount more. I have never needed an impact wrench. If you are not famaliar with using one, you are much safer to stay away. The proper holder, socket and a breaker bar can remove anything you need to take off on your bike. Putting it back on, you're better to use a mechanical holder and a torque wrench. The rear wheel doesn't even need a holder. Take the bike off the stand and have a fat chick sit on it and gently squeeze both brake levers. The axle will stay put. I have come across a couple of crankshafts where the threads were ruined by an overzealous heavy handed use of an impact wrench.

Thanks for all the input. I know enough not to use an impact wrench to tighten bolts. I can't see how using it to take off a nut could damage the axle, as opposed to using it to put one on.

I have a plate and thirteen screws (moto accident), in my right distal radius, right below the wrist/thumb junction. One of the heads of the screws sticks out. When I need to really crank on a bolt that refuses to budge, the area on my arm swells and bruises. And I do start loosening processes by trying leverage first, but at some point in the removal, I have to support the socket or wrench, and use my right arm.

I watch Robot and crew pop off the bolts so easily with the impact wrench, I thought it would be of help to me.

PS I also already have a decent torque wrench, but I use a makeshift piece of PVC as the extension, if needed.

There is no harm in using an impact wrench. Shops tend use an impact wrench for the simple fact that it saves them time.
I don't have a "bigly" budget so either I have bought socket sets off of craigslist and or brands like Tekton.
My 2 cents on this is use the tools that make your life simpler and try and make sure they are of a good quality, you will be better off even if you use the tools once every few months only.

I've gone through a succession of pneumatic impact wrenches while working on my old Ford truck, buying bigger ones as I met larger and more rusted nuts I couldn't remove. I ended up with a huge honking DeWalt corded electric wrench which I never used, because I gave up and took the truck to a mechanic. It sometimes takes the largest air wrench, or a long lever, to remove lug nuts from the cars and truck.

Meanwhile, I bought a DeWalt 20V Max 1/4" impact driver with lithium battery (Model DCF787*) for the smaller jobs including working on scooters. It's always been up to the tasks of removing variator and clutch nuts, and it's a lot handier than dragging out the pneumatic wrenches, hoses, and compressor.

With it, I use two sets of Harbor Freight sockets (SAE and metric, 1/2" drive, not deep), 3-4 assorted odd size sockets, and a set of square drive adapters (1/4", 3/8", and 1/2").

So, if you're looking for something to work on scooters, get a good quality cordless impact driver and a set of HF sockets (metric).

*Specs: 1500 in-lbs = 170 nm https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-20V-MAX-Lithium-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-1-4-in-Impact-Driver-Kit-with-1-7-Ah-Battery-and-Charger-DCF787E1/336020661

https://www.harborfreight.com/impact-rated-hex-shank-socket-driver-set-3-piece-64604.html

(edited to make HF URL work - jimc)

I have a milwaukee 12v , Which is powerfull enough for all the jobs
It is not heavy and very handy, use it a lot

This is a killer corded impact wrench: https://www.harborfreight.com/85-amp-12-in-impact-wrench-with-rocker-switch-64120.html If you buy it Friday through Sunday, it is 25% off. I like to take a sharpie and draw a witness mark through the shaft and nut before removal. When putting it back together, go slightly past your mark. Also, Robot has been doing this for over 2 decades.

I bought a 20V Dewalt combo kit with drill and impact earlier this year during Amazon Prime Days in April. I bought a light separately that was on special as well.

I've used the impact wrench on numerous projects and it does a good job. I know I've removed a properly torqued Rear Axle nut at least 4 times with it. Be sure to get and use impact rated sockets and bits. The drill is also very good.

edit: The impact driver is rated at 1500 in/lbs of torque, which is roughly 125 lb/ft. So not a crazy high number, but enough for breaking loose anything on the scoot.

Currently this is on a special during Prime Big Deal Days for $179 and includes 2 batteries...

https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-Cordless-Batteries-Included-DCK277D2/dp/B0C3PQHGR7?ref=dlx_prime_dg_dcl_B0C3PQHGR7_dt_sl7_17_pi&pf_rd_r=D7A433GGHCRT9Q4FR1N6&pf_rd_p=56149ed6-1d35-40f4-8640-f05cd1a15e17

+1 on the Milwaukee 12v 'Fuel' impact gun.

The one I have is a more 'stubby' option so it fits into places better. I do have other Milwaukee battery powered tools, so it made sense for me to stick with their ecosystem so that I could share batteries.

Typically Home Despot starts offering some pretty good deals as we get closer to the holidays.

How much will you use it? I do a lot of work but rarely need an impact. A breaker bar is quicker most of the time. I have been using a cheap Harbor Freight corded for over 20 years.

Remember impact to remove, torque wrench to install. You can jack up some things up quickly (especially a crank) with an impact.

Thanks! There are a lot of "generic" impact guns 1/2 inch, w 2 batteries and six sockets on sale at Amazon today: 50-100 bucks.

I do about 10k miles a year, so I will do a belt change one to two times a year, and whenever I need to pull the wheel off. It would have helped with the stuck oil drain plug. So not a ton of use, but it won't collect cobwebs either.

just remember the cheap ones probably don't have the torque , IMO your better off with a harbor freight one if you want less costs.

The ones I quickly bookmarked have 400 ft lbs of torque.

In my dungeon of a garage, I just found a breaker bar with a , I think, 45 or so, mm socket.

Forgot I had it. I used it to take off the rear wheel of my Honda Hawk GTs.

I guess I'm old-school since I still use a pneumatic impact wrench. I started with an inexpensive one from Harbor Freight, but it was insufficient for basic car tire lug nuts - a rare out-of-the-box failure of a HF product for me. I upgraded to a shop-standard Ingersoll-Rand 231C model, which is amazing and kind of the last word in twisting power for someone with my skill level. If that doesn't get the fastener out, the Sawzall or oscillating saw is the next step, and there are going to be pieces.

The Harbor Freight impact sockets have been entirely adequate for my purposes, a bit to my surprise to the upside. Also from HF I have a set of colorful lug nut impact sockets, some of which have applied to larger scooter nuts, and a set of smaller standard-size impact sockets.

On the topic of tightening fasteners with an impact wrench, you're not supposed to do that directly. However, there is a device called a "torque stick" that goes between the socket and the wrench. It comes in a set which even from HF includes lovely colors. The various torque sticks twist and deform at certain degrees of tension, which enables you to set, with blunt but sufficient accuracy, fastener tightness using an impact wrench.

I acquired my set for one of the larger nuts on my Scarabeo transmission that I couldn't lock down to tighten properly. I could use them for other fasteners, but they're stored on the shelf right next to the torque wrench - so if I'm going to take a tool down I might as well take down the more precise tool.

I also have an Ingersoll Rand 231C. I also th(ought) it was amazing, and would occasionally go to alternate sources for more torque. A 4 foot black pipe with a breaker bar was my go-to, actually.

And then, I tried to change a timing belt on a Honda Odyssey. No good access for a breaker bar attached, more or less, to a 4 foot section of pipe. Pneumatic impact didn't get it after a LONG time just chugging away. (Side note: I'm well aware of line loss in air hoses, and use large diameter, short length hose where possible.)

All that said, the ~600 ft*lb torque of the Ingersoll Rand 231C was, well I did some research and found a DeWalt battery powered impact rated for 1750 ft*lb removal torque, and all I can say is, WOW. The thing does what I bought it for.

Have you considered having this removed?

Had a plate on my hand that had excessively long screws, had it removed after about a year.

I got it in 2008, and doc said to give it a year then he could take it out if I wanted. The screws would leave holes, and it would take a while for them to fill with calcium and bone. It's called the phantom effect: the bone under the plate is weaker for a while.

That was a problem for me, as I am a chiropractor and I shudder to think what could potentially happen if I pushed on someone's back before it was capable of the force.

I am unable to practice now, as I was hit by a truck on my bicycle last January. Maybe next year I can consider plate removal.

Thank you for your input!

I've done all sorts of work with all different types of impacts, including tapping holes

A key skill is learning to use them at less than full power. When assembling use 1/2 trigger & final torque with a wrench. As you become familiar you start to understand how many blows of the hammer at what trigger pull equals how much torque.
Using regular combo wrenches will generally be close to the required torque. The bigger the wrench the longer it is, more torque. When using a ratchet, hold it about the same distance from the socket as if it were a combo wrench

I have mismatched sets of mostly impact sockets, this lets me identify them by feel. Deep is better as it saves your knuckles instead of using an extension

One of my favorite tools, 1/4 extension pressed through a screwdriver handle, not as slippery as sockets or extensions, pop a ratchet on when needed or even switch to 1/4 drive impact

If you install lots of studs & want to use an impact to save time.
Take a socket weld a nut to it with a ball bearing trapped between the socket & nut. This will drive the stud in leaving only a small dent in the top of the stud