Modern Vespa

Funny thing, i have my pet carrier out right now for a heat reason with the engine stopped ... I'm waiting for my engine bay to warm up (actually i think it's the fuel in the tank that i need warm). But that's a discussion for another thread

Exactly my point! Thank you!

This thread reminded me about a Finnish rally car champion Timo Mäkinen

In 1967, in one special stake of the World Rally Championship race a leather strap holding the hood of his Mini Cooper was broken.

Not minding this minor inconvenience, he continued driving the rest of the curvy, challenging stake...and finished the special stake as the third fastest driver!

For a souped up Mini Cooper those days, the fresh air probably did just good too

Some might call that a 'cold air intake'

The UK is responsible for one independence day celebration a week. /shrug

great song

Thank you for calling.

Here's some data from a long 721km day ride several months ago:

A. Many hours of 110-115kph on the freeway holds the temp at 91C. At 100kph it will normally sit at 86-89C, ie that little bit of extra speed is making it harder for the cooling system.

B. Cutting the throttle and drifting in to a pull over area rapidly drops the temp to 86C

C. Less than a minute of idling a heat soaked scoot rose the temp to 91C

D. Three minute bathroom break

E. 106C. Yup, the temp rose 15C with the engine stopped for 3mins. How rapidly did it go up in that gap and how high? Shame I hadn't used the kill switch and left the ign on which would leave the record running.

F. While moving the bike to another part of the carpark, the running engine drags water from the front of the bike cooling the engine back down to 94C. Still well above normal.

G. A three minute break for a drink and snack.

H. Again with the engine stopped the temp had risen, this time to 100C. Followed by dropping to 92C as I drive off as it gulped that cooler water from the front

A caveat that *only affects idle periods* for this discussion, is the bike was idling high due to an air leak. I was waiting for the new intake hose to reply and riding anyway.

Did the fan kick in at any point ?

I'm pretty sure i would have used the manual fan switch to turn it on during that idle period.

Me too!

My small Acura sedan used to run its fan for a while after I turned off the engine.
I would hear it as I walked up the drive.
It only ran for a few minutes.

I agree, if the fan isn't on then the engine is not overly hot, if it is on, its still within the operating temperature.

Does it hurt to do it no, but its like changing your oil every 500 miles, doesnt hurt but not necessary. I track my car a few times a year and from high speeds over 130 mph, braking hard, and accelerating out of turns, the engine temps get warm enough for the fans to turn on after I come off the track. They run about 5 minutes and thats it. There are few guys with track prepped race cars that use external fans afterwards but most dont.....

Oh, how wonderful the German autobahn is. At least when there isn't much traffic, my family station wagon can reach speeds of up to 250 kph (155 mph)... And then you get overtaken by the next sports car.

I ordered the larger carrier from sip

I will swap coolant after I change all the hoses to my silicone version 3ply.

I will mfg a silicone grommet to seal the hoses to the frame there are two per install.

Larger o.d.
Softer for better seal
Silicone for better life

Nurburing and Autobahn are on my short list to do soon. my sports car has a top speed of 191 but I will never go that fast, even the 155 is too fast for the tracks I drive on...

I wouldn't dare drive on the Nürburgring.
Familiarize yourself thoroughly with German traffic rules. Keep in mind that not all Autobahn have no speed limits. During the day, you have almost no chance of driving fast. It's best to drive in the evening/at night (while summer), sundays (because trucks are not allowed to drive) and for "beginners", it's best to use three-lane sections (many sections are only two lanes).

Have fun, stay safe!

As with the Autobahn and the Nurburgring just keep an eye on your mirrors because those other cars come up really fast.

On the Autobahn you'll see packs of Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz all drafting each other at 130 mph plus and they don't want to slow down.

It looks dangerous at first but they all know exactly what they are doing.

Who is "They"? And why do you look to THIER authority?

Humans are just that.

130MPH? I thought the autobahn was in a MKS country!

If you want to change lanes: check your mirror, set signal, check your mirror again, if the vehicle behind you appears to have gotten "bigger," cancel your lane change... By the way, only pass on the left; passing on the right is not permitted! If it looks like a race, you could face severe penalties. Illegal street racing: your driver's license and/or car may be confiscated. Depending on the severity, up to 2 years' imprisonment or a fine; if danger is caused, up to 5 years; if death occurs, up to 10 years. Murder or manslaughter can mean life imprisonment. Be careful, especially if you are vacationing with a group and traveling with several vehicles, for example.
Most important rule: keep your distance! Half speedometer value in kph = minimum distance in meters, e.g. at 200 kph, maintain a distance of at least 100 m. There are black and white bollards on the right-hand side, always spaced 50 meters apart. In the example of 200 kph, there should therefore be space for two bollards between you and the vehicle in front. I'm sure that's not true.

Piaggio. And because it's their design.

🤦‍♂️

I'm pretty sure they do know what they are doing because no one is flashing their lights or jostling to overtake as they fly by you.

It all looks very calm and serene from a voyeurs point of view.

Just a 100 mph plus collective of German Automotive Exoctica all morphed together as they collectively draft past you.

It's a pleasure to watch as no communication is needed as each pilot gets the agenda.

This thread has got me thinking way too much.

The Crossrunner has a large opening in it's fairing which allows the air to flow directly to the forward two cylinders of the motor so I'm making the assumption that much of the heat from the 1st two cylinders get blown back into the 2nd two and exits from the holes behind the fairings next to your knees.

I doubt that the airflow has any really real cooling effect on the engine block itself, however the radiators are mounted high up in the fairing and forward of the motor to collect as much of the cool airflow as possible.

The air passes over them in a parallel fashion rather than head on which is clever.

The large opening in the fairing is usually filled with a single radiator with/or an oil cooler mounted directly behind the forks, but not with the Honda. This has two radiators either side mounted inbound the fairing and one has the all important fan just in case it gets warm.

What I'm getting at is that this is Honda and Honda are really good at making engines so if for a minute they thought that there'd be problems with cooling a high performance V4 with just airflow plus a pump and coolant they wouldn't have built it like this.

I'm certain that leaving a liquid cooled engine to cool naturally is just fine in all conditions.

Just for a laugh at a later stage I'm going to ride out and note the temperatures on the highway and in traffic just for shits and giggles.

As a note an air cooled V Twin is one of the worst engine designs because all the heat from the first cylinder gets blown back into the second and cooks it.

They've seen the light and realised they have one too many cylinders at the back. Details next week. But see below too. Unless it's a moto guzzi or ducati or BMW.


MVX250

Forgive me. I should have stated an inline air cooled V Twin.

At least with a Ducati they thought about drawing heat away from the second cylinder by building it 90 degrees to the first.

Crossrunner runs at 77/78 Degrees C on highway runs and fast 2 lane roads.

It raises to 92 degrees when riding in traffic after a highway ride.

Fan kicks in at 104 degrees.

In the summer months I raise the hood on my cars as well as the seat/carrier on my ET4 before bringing them in the garage for the night. I don't want the added heat in my garage/house. A few less heat cycles on the rubber and plastic is an added benefit.

What do you feel is more likely to eventually wear out a coolant hose ?

Expansion from the inside or heat from the outside ?

Venting the engine to cool it has no effect on the longevity on the hoses and plastics because the heat cycle has already taken place.

Another way to keep the scooter cool would be to never drive it. That way it will stay nice and cool.

But seriously, we know that the scooters do fine operating at speed (max heat) for hours on end. And we know that when you turn it off, it eventually will cool to ambient temperature. Seems to me the only thing that would change by removing the pet carrier after a ride is the rate of cooling and I am not at all sure why speeding up that process would have any beneficial effect.

What he said.

There is one thing that you're missing:

The temperature rises for the following few minutes after stopping before it starts dropping. Removing the carrier would maybe reduce this rise a bit.

I've shown this with data above. With a bit of thinking it's not hard to see the causes of this. One day I will make a point of recording how high on a fully heat soaked bike by keeping my recording running for maybe 10mins after stopping.

Note: I'm not arguing it really matters as I'm pretty sure it doesn't rise enough to be an issue.