Modern Vespa

Looking for advise on build components for a malossi v-one bottom end from scratch , using parts to support a touring tune .
I'm installing a malossi 210 sport kit and 26mm si carb with sip fast flow fuel valve , malossi box exhaust , should I swap out 4th for a short 4th gear ?
I will install a upgraded clutch during the build any gear tooth suggestions ?
Do I need to use the px input shaft ?
Sorry for all the questions , been years since I played with vespa engines .

Bump

What I would do, keeping in mind that everyone has different tastes for what makes a good touring build.

PX EFL drive shaft + gears. Piaggio preferred.
- Gear stack: 57/42/38/36 (short 4th)
- I think a stock gear ratio best all around, when combined with the short 4th. You'll lose about 1-2mph top speed, but the change over from 3rd to 4th is way better. I run a 36 tooth 4th in every P2 engine, stock or tuned.
- - be sure to get a PX/EFL type selector box.

Clutch: VMC Molle Ergal, Cosa2 style clutch.
- 23 tooth stock gear count, to go with a 65 tooth primary
- you can cadd a 24 tooth DRT gear, if you want to up-gear the whole ratio, but personally I dont think its necessary.
- tbh, I have not run this clutch; but it is in my cart for the next upgrade.
- - there are also Cosa2 style clutches from SIP, for about the same cost.

Primary "christmas tree" stack all stock + stock 65 tooth primary gear.
- I like to rebuild these for tuned engines with a DRT rebuild kit, which uses uprated springs.

Overall Piaggio or DRT are good components to use here. There are others here with different opinions, but that is my take and what works well for me. Keep it simple and keep it on the road!

For simple and straightforward no nonsense approach, I second GeekLion

Only one other suggestion - your engine wont be producing insane amounts of power so a simple banded cosa clutch basket would suffice.

A banded cosa clutch basket is inexpensive and can handle the power your setup can deliver. The more exotic clutches (think CNC cut) are aimed at someone running way past that.

Thank you , this helps a lot, so one last question on the v-one cases , am I right in thinking all bearings , seals and internal components should be for a pxe or can I use parts from my 79 p200e?
Cheers

Better to purchase new EFL as the 79 is pre EFL. And sell your engine to recover some money back

Thanks again to everyone , now onto the build 👍

I've run a malossi 210 (221 actually, with a 60mm crank) and a 24t clutch cog for years now. Have tried it with both a short 4th and the stock 4th. You can feel the difference, and while the 3rd-4th shift is more satisfying with the short 4th, you do lose out on some cruise-ability.

If you'll be touring a lot on it, I'd suggest leaving the gear stack stock. The malossi 210 sport doesn't really *need* a short 4th. It's pretty grunty. At no point with the longer gearing have I felt like I had to wind 3rd out to get to a usable place for the top gear.

Good to know as I was looking into a shorter 4th gear as so many have mentioned, most of my riding is on the flat in my area , few hills but nothing extreme , 55 / 60 mph .
Thanks 👍

As JimVanMorrissey said, when using a Malossi kit, the difference between 3rd to 4th is not as drastic; compared to all stock build. Having ridden both stock and short 4th setups, the short 4th might not be necessary; but it is my preference.

One of my reasons for using a short 4th, even on tuned builds; is it keeps more power in the bottom range of the 4th gear. Essentially you have a bit more power to use and rev up, even in lower rpm's, without the need to down shift. I'm ok with losing a bit of top end for this reason.

And as GeekLion said, you *do* get a more usable range with the short 4th. It becomes more of a "Jesus Gear" that can handle a slightly steeper incline while cruising.

However if you're sitting at 100km/h for hours on flat-ish terrain, you might prefer to do that at 6000 RPM rather than 6200 RPM. That's the benefit of the stock 4th.

As mentioned above, a nice combo is the 24-tooth Cosa clutch cog (DRT and BGM make them) paired with the stock 65 tooth primary and a short 4th. 4th gear stays more or less the same as stock, while the other gears all get a bit longer. You get rid of that huge gap between 3rd and 4th while still keeping the long top gear.

I had a 24t clutch with the 36T short 4th installed in my old pinasco 215 kit. I like the cruising rpm with that engine. I swapped on a molassi 210 (2016 sport) kit. I'll let you know how the gearing is one the carb gets jetted in…in other words, don't hold your breath that my review will happen any time soon.

Heads up- a few years ago (well probably more than a few), i bought the VMC Molle Ergal from SIP. I received the heavy billet steel version instead of the lightweight aluminum. I doubt SIP has ever fixed their description of the clutch, and they keep shipping the incorrect version.

All great advice , thank you All , very much appreciated, HAPPY 4TH.

That's good to know. I was asking around when I was preparing to build my 221, and many urged me to use a short 4th because "that's what you need on a 210 Malossi". On the other hand, sck were adamant the short 4th was relevant to older Malossi kits, but not the newer (2016 and 2021?) ones, because there was more torque available to pull 4th than with the old version. I went ahead and left the gears stock, and it's perfect as is. Regarding the 24/65 pinion, I have a feeling the type of rider it has to haul around might be a factor too. I have one on the shelf, but I haven't gotten around to installing it yet because I'm not sure it won't be a pain in the ass uphill. Duly noted that the short 4th might be my best bet in that configuration.

Just yesterday I had an errand to run about 50km away from home, all freeway (so 100km total). Man is that thing fun to ride!👍 It's really grunty and has an almost organic feel at the throttle positions I usually ride it at, but twist it a little more (wide open) and the thing just effortlessly goes into overdrive with no end in sight.

And regarding speed, the gps told me I'd be arriving there at 7:05PM. The store I was going to closed at 7:00PM. So I accepted the cannonball challenge, and decided if there was no way to shave off the required minutes, I could always make a sightseeing trip out of it. Turns out by taking the slowest route (in terms of speed limits), ignoring said speed limits and splitting lanes, it's not too hard to pull that projected ETA down. I was at 1/3 of the way there when the gps gave me an ETA of 6:44, and I eventually parked in front of the store at 6:32PM, having had a blast, and anticipating even more fun on the way back.

All that to say that the Malossi is fun, reliable, and incidentally, was the easiest to set up (just the MJ on a 26/26).

good to know, thanks for pointing that out. I checked on the SIP site a few days ago, and they did have separate listings & part numbers for the Ergal/aluminum version, and the steel version. Worth noting to keep an eye out if buying, and for the actual product delivered. I may have one of these on the way soon-ish.

[quote="Frank N. Stein"
And regarding speed, the gps told me I'd be arriving there at 7:05PM. The store I was going to closed at 7:00PM. So I accepted the cannonball challenge, and decided if there was no way to shave off the required minutes, I could always make a sightseeing trip out of it. Turns out by taking the slowest route (in terms of speed limits), ignoring said speed limits and splitting lanes, it's not too hard to pull that projected ETA down. I was at 1/3 of the way there when the gps gave me an ETA of 6:44, and I eventually parked in front of the store at 6:32PM, having had a blast, and anticipating even more fun on the way back.

All that to say that the Malossi is fun, reliable, and incidentally, was the easiest to set up (just the MJ on a 26/26).
[/quote]

That is some serious time shaving right there! You were splitting lanes into fractions!!

Tbf, I suspect the gps ETA to be set based on an average of 2 wheelers' speeds over the same distances, meaning it likely takes into account the many people who drive cautiously/within the speed limit/ within their lane - even those whose gps is set to motorcycle but also use it in their car in traffic, which would obviously pessimisticize* the projected ETA.

Add to that the fact that taking a one-way street the wrong way in my area allows me to substract a good 5-7 minutes from the gps-suggested route any day, and the likelyhood that some accident cleared up on my way there (I noticed the ETA jumped from 6:59 to 6:44 as I was exiting a long tunnel where there was no coverage for a few minutes, so that could mean a crash-caused jam was cleared up right before I got there).

In any case, I wasn't doing 200kph on a 110kph freeway so it wasn't all speed, but the drop was impressive nonetheless.
And also a blessing: thanks to my making it in time, I now have enough potted chives on my balcony for years of salads, dips, and omelets

(*the word isn't in the dictionary, but it should)

Sip shipped the VMC steel version to me instead of the aluminum. I was disappointed enough that it's still in the box, sitting on my shelf however many years later. I'd still like to get the aluminum version, just because i'm not building a high enough powered engine to warrant the extra durability of a steel basket.

That is extremely frustrating for sure, given that returns are not exactly easy or cost effective :/