Modern Vespa

Dear all
My best friend for the past 4 years is very sick and i need your help. I drive a Vespa ET4 125 that seems to have a small electrical issue. About 9 Months ago she had some problems starting which i discovered was the battery being quite old and had run out of Liquid. I got a new battery but maybe 2 months later i had problems starting. The battery seemed to be charging fine (according to the meter the RAC people used) and the only explanation that either RAC or my Service Boys could come up with that the pitiful amount of distance that i was driving it (It was about 1 mile twice a weekday) I then moved house and job and had to drive my baby half way round the M25 (56 miles in total of very hard driving) This, of course would be a long enough drive to completely charge the battery but to my surprise about a week later it would not start. I then took her in for in MOT and they put in a new battery thinking that the other new one i had had was a duff battery. This worked perfectly until 2 months until, you guessed it, it wouldn't start.
This is where my story gets complicated. My bike would not start on Monday or Tuesday of the week, i then phoned up and booked her in so my boys could have a look, she then worked perfectly on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, I then cancelled the boys hoping for the best. The next week she would not work Monday or Tuesday, I attempted to book her in again but the boys were fully booked, and then refused to work afterwards at all. Now this is were i come in. In order to get to work on all the days she wouldn't start i was jump starting her off the Car. On the Wednesday i was very rushed and crossed the jump leads causing a categorical failure of all electric's. This was caused by blowing a fuse and with this replaced none of the lights work(either a fuse or bulbs have blown).

In conclusion the help i need is this: What could be causing the drain on my battery so it will not work after sitting for a weekend but work afterwards (the only thing i could think off was the immobiliser but i have been told this uses very little power)
and how do i find out whether it is the bulbs or the fuse that has blown to get my lights working.

I have given up on the mechanics working this out because they are expensive and still have not solved the problem. I love my baby very much and she was such a good runner before this all started and i don't want to get rid of her but i hate the bus and need a solution soon.

PLEASE HELP THIS POOR MECHANICALLY IGNORANT LITTLE GIRL!

thank you

I read this like three times trying to figure out what it had to do with your terminally ill friend.....then I got it.

I hope you find a cure!

I had a similar problem quite recently with my ET4. It turned out to be a loose wire to the immobiliser. I kid you not, get it checked.

Hi Holly, welcome to modern vespa. Sorry to hear about your electrical issues. FIrst thing to check is going to be the connections to your battery. Make sure they are screwed tight. You may have a lose ground, thus causing the intermittent battery function. Also, check to insure that they are clean. If dirty, clean with a bit of baking soda and water. and a toothbrush from your roommate or husband, or ex boyfriend. Make it into a paste similar to tooth paste in consistency.
As far as the trauma caused by the wrong application of jumper cables; Check EVERY area of your scooter for fuses. I have never even seen your model so I'm not much help, but on my GTS there are fuses under the seat. Before you blow out lamps you WILL blow out fuses. That's why they are there, to prevent trauma to your electrical system.

Sorry if I'm not much help, but it's a start anyway.

Not a good idea to jump from your car battery It's not just based on voltage, You could fry your scooter battery

What amp is your car battery anyway?

Check your battery with a cheap volt meter, then as above, check all your connections..

If you are not running your scooter that often then buy a 12v charger at Halfords.

You need to run it more often to sustain a charge. 56 miles, then a week down time on a new battery is not enough.

Go out and buy that charger

Sounds like the Starter. ET4 Starters die right at about the 4-5 year mark. Just an opinion. Book you bike in at the shop and have them check the starter & starter button. If it's the starter, a new one is $240 USD. That's like what, 10 Euros nowadays? If your lights come on strong and the bike won't turn over, it's usually the starter motor. Best of Luck.

I drive a 2003 Vespa ET4 125 with electrical issues.
9 Months ago had problems starting.
Battery was old, replaced battery.
2 months later, again problems starting.
Battery charging fine (according to the meter)
Put in a new battery anyway.
Another 2 months later starting problems (again).
Starting was intermittent - would not start on Monday or Tuesday, worked perfectly on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
In order to get to work, I started jump starting off the Car.
Then I crossed the jump leads causing a categorical failure of all electrics.
Now, none of the lights work.

PLEASE HELP THIS POOR MECHANICALLY IGNORANT LITTLE GIRL!

I took the liberty of editing down your OP and I believe this post is a more concise statement of your problem. If you're asking for help from Americans, we need smaller words and shorter sentences.

there are fuses under the seat next to the battery. they are probably fried and need replacing.

re. the starting issues ... could be the starter, as alohachris notes, or could be something like the automatic choke. what sound does it make when you try to start it? is the starter turning over but the engine's not catching, or is it just making a 'click click click' noise?

also, i've taken the liberty of editing the title of your post so people don't mistake it for some sort of scam/spam.

If your searching/replacing the fuses yourself, there are ET4 workshop manuals posted here to review/download:

[topic630]

my ET is not the same either, I love her so much but her health is fragile a bit like yours.

it will always start, but I normally need a good 2-3 pushing the start button with a squeeky "click" noise like genie said, and pulling the throttle to feed her some petrol too.
poor Shirley.. it's worse when it's cold too, so maybe when it gets warmer she'll cheer up?

I also heard the same about my low mileage journey being harmful to my battery.. a bit unfair really but possibly true!

good luck though, ET's are so cute, they deserve to be preserved!

The second year in my ET4 started having winter problems starting. First time, a new battery did it. Second time, a thorough carb cleaning and new spark plug took care of it.

Sounds like you have other issues right now, but a tune up and using a trickle charger [built for scooters/motorcycles] will be helpful regardless.

Good luck-- glad you found us!

Cheers,

--Deborah

re. the starting issues ... could be the starter, as alohachris notes, or could be something like the automatic choke. what sound does it make when you try to start it? is the starter turning over but the engine's not catching, or is it just making a 'click click click' noise?

I'm having a similar problem with an '02 ET4 that was just resurrected from dead storage. Replaced battery, started right up after 3 years, drove it minimally for 3 days. Now it won't start. Tested multiple electronic components, ultimately replaced the high voltage coil (was getting a high read). But still won't start. Behavior alternates between (as noted above) "starter turning over but the engine's not catching," and "making a 'click click click' noise." Tested starter and it's good. Gave the engine (where it meets up with the starter) some "taps" - after which the starter turns over, and turns, and turns, until finally, it stops, then the "click," and I repeat the process. But still can't get it started. Any ideas? Vespa shop is not close for repairs. Going to check the auto-choke now...

i'm not an expert by a long stretch but one of my scooters was plagued by exactly the same problems... the list of suspect components included the fuses, the starter relay, the ignition coil, the spark plug (including cables etc.) and the automatic choke. the latter turned out to be the problem in my case - it was more or less stuck on a closed position and wasn't allowing enough petrol into the engine to allow it to start up properly.

So far, every component checks out OK, including the auto-choke. I have revisited previously tested components, and tested, tested again. There is NO SPARK. Diagnostic lights indicate immobilizer is good and scooter is capable of starting...I am in denial? It all keeps pointing back to the CDI? Easy enough to replace, but for the cost. Anyone know of a good source to order a replacement unit? (US, please) Or a diganostic test? Manual states to "connect the immobilizer tester to the diagnostic socket behind the helmet compartment." Huh? I certainly don't have an immobilizer tester, and can't figure out where it would be connected anyway. Sigh...

I don't think my problem is my starter because as soon as the battery has power going to it (eg charging the battery or jumping it) she starts first time. The power just seems to litteraly leak from the battery if she sits for more than a day. The only thing i can think off that is on whilst the bike isn't started is the Imolbiliser. I bought the Haynes manual for the ET4 at the weekend but it doesn't give me any information about turning it off so i can test whether it is the Imobiliser or something else. Is this even possible? I can't seem to find any authorised Vespa or Piaggio garage in my area and the switch board was useless in finding me one. Because this is a ET4 specific part i don't think anyone else will know what to do with it.

I really am a novice so i am going to trawl through the other topics about how to clean up the connections and see if that helps.

Thank you all for helping me. Hopefully she will live once more.

I also had the auto choke problem. Sounds like it's not as rare as my mechanic thought

And hi there! I'm not a million miles from Erith, over in Bromley.

Where do you take your bike to? My Blokes won't even look at her any more.

Before you replace the starter motor, check the black ground wire that connects between the frame and the one of the belt cover bolts. I have seen that wire come loose, the starter will barley crank.

I go to Dave Wilkins in Penge - he's an all-round bike mechanic and services several ET4s. Alternatively, Sterling M/C in Forest Hill is a Piaggio dealer; I haven't had any work done by them but they've been very helpful ordering parts and sound like they know what they're doing.

if you were a bit closer in i'd recommend my mechanic - he's not associated with a dealership but he's amazingly talented. solved and sorted my auto-choke problem in about half an hour by taking it apart, replacing a few bits, and rebuilding it have had no further issues since then.

Hiya,

First timer here, I've had my lil ET450 since September and am loving it; it took almost an hour to get to work in my car and now it takes 12 minutes! Nothing better than solid traffic to whizz (carefully ) through!
My lil mate has been having problems in that she starts ok cold if you don't use the throttle but then idles for a minute and cuts out, then it won't start unless you give it some throttle. You have to then keep up the revs constantly for the first ten minutes on the road otherwise she dies. Her favourite trick is to die after about 5 mins of road time when I slow down and then theres a slight (terrifying) delay at the most inappropriate times like when I'm just trying to negotiate 58 wing mirrors and two JCBs in very slow moving traffic.

Is your mechanic anywhere near Epsom/Kingston as I'd really appreciate a decent bloke. My Dad's great with motorbikes (Norton Commando 850 Man) but he's only just talkin to me as he was a bit put out as he used to have a DA (if you know what I mean!) He has tried to help but is still in a very dark place when it comes to my lil mate.

I'm hoping the problem is my spark plug so am going round daddy dearest's today when a new one to see if we can change it. Wish me luck!

Another question to all - is there a name for the people who pull over in really slow traffic so you cant get through?

Sounds like your valves need adjusting. These are the nearest oft-recommended dealer for you:

Ewell Motorcycle & Scooter Centre Ltd
6-7 Castle Parade
Ewell By Pass
Epsom
Surrey
KT17 2PR
Tel: 020 8786 7161

As for the b'stards who don't let you through, they are onanists..

Shirley: When it's cold outside you have to start with the carburetor heating option on the ET which occurs after leaving the key on ignition for 30 seconds , give it some gas, steady engine speed and let her warm. Then go for it!

By the way, I am experiencing the same starting trouble with my ET4-125 with only 12,000 miles but 10 years old...I guess I have to rebuild the carburetor!

Mixed bag I guess, mine's 11, has 9, 000 miles on it but has been stripped and exposed behind a shed for three English winters ..

Starts on the button!

Go figure.

Mine's 12 years old and works fine after being under a tarp in a wet climate for two years! Dunno why you think Piaggio parts are so bad man? They are same as everything else imho. A lot are better than Suzuki/Kawasaki/Honda stuff ..

TBH regarding the o/p's problem, it sounds to be like your regulator/rectifier has gone and is killing your batteries.

Happens a lot on old Jap bikes ..

I have the same problem with my Vespa ET4 150cc!

Now that the weather has turned wintery, she just won't consistently start on cold weekday mornings. Always fine on a weekend, after a couple of hours basking in the sun!

I'm going to try a new battery - however I don't think this will 'fix' the underlying problem i.e. that the battery is too small and runs down unless you are consistently covering a good distance. I may need to commit to driving it further on a regular basis in order to prolong the life (and charge) of the battery.

Any other ideas???

what kind of battery do you have in there? is it a high-quality one? i had a rubbish battery in one of my scoots, and even though it was showing fully charged, it wasn't delivering. result: scooter nearly impossible to start in cold weather. investigated loads of other possible causes before my mechanic came around, took one look at the battery, and identified it as the root of the problem. if you park your scooter on private property and have a power outlet handy, you might also want to try using a trickle charger in colder months.

I am glad i found this. I google the problem I have with my Vespa ET4 125 on Saturday. As the bike I just brought on Friday has got the same problem.

Only thing is. I paid for the bike on Friday. Rode it 8 miles home, and the next day I went to use it, it wouldn't work. It has the problem you mentioned and the last owner had changed the spark plugs and battery, but never said there was any problems with it, and he hid the glove box damage.

He blames me for it. So I have no idea what to do.

All of this from a Classic Vespa owner, fan and club member (Moulton Blaggers), and he has the cheek to blame me for it.

Battery was also ment to be flat even though it was new. He said it was down to the bike not being used for 3 weeks.

John

... and here we have the root of your problem starting issues are a pain to track down. have you had a thorough read through the thread above? nearly all of the possible causes are listed there. sorry to hear that mr. blagger was less than honest about the condition of the scooter - hope you didn't pay too much.

I will tell you what to do learn how to start a bike and stop calling me a liar. You forgot to mention that you and your brother both started the bike and he test rode it,funny how three other people used the bike and had no trouble starting it. TRY USING THE KICK START PROPERLY.

I have been a mechanic for 28 years, and in my experince it is almost always the ground. With DC current, sometimes it will jump a poor ground and sometimes it won't. Clean and tight contacts are happy contacts.
I once read in a tech manual years ago "a faulty ground will cause inconceivable electrical problems" I have never forgotten it and it almost always the case. A poor ground will sometimes allow the high amperage to jump the fault for a start but will not allow a battery to charge and when the electrolight hits the bottom it stays there forver causing the cells to short out. I always start with the ground. Good luck.

it's not a good idea to use the kick to start the ET4 on a regular basis. they are not well built, they're meant for occasional use only and not as a replacement for the electronic ignition.

it sounds as though the two parties involved in this need to sit down and have a chat - we're happy to help you try and find the cause of the problem but any buyer/seller issues should be discussed in private, cheers.

Over the weekend I managed to get the bike work. Only thing is I have to kick start it for ages to get it to start first thing in the morning.
As it's started now I found out the bike get the power to the battery as it should and then the electric start works as it should after a 20-30 minute ride on it. Only thing is it runs out of power if I leave the bike for more than 5 minutes.

Any idea what this may be? This could be why the bike looses it charge all the time.

Now the bike has no kick start. As people on here have said. They are not strong and for mild use only. As I have had to kick start the bike for 15 minutes every time in the morning. Plus I gave up yesterday at work. As I was outside in the rain for 45 minutes and i could not get it to work.

Anyone know a good place for used panels and new parts that I need? As I am going to have to fix it. Which is a pain in the arse. As I was meant to have got a working bike and not a project bike. The £900 I paid for it, was my savings. So it's going to take a while to get it on the road as it should be.

John

your best bet for cheap body panels etc. for the ET4 is a breaker's yard - no need to buy them new if you don't have to.

as to the battery/charging issue .... i'm a total muppet with electrics, all i can tell you is what you already know, 'your battery isn't charging', which isn't much help to you. it sounds like it might be a regulator/rectifier issue, here's a thread that may help a bit: Voltage regulator/rectifier question

I'd suggest two things. 1. use the search function and see if you can find anything - the search terms 'battery not charging' should get you some answers; even if they're not model-specific you will get a sense of what sort of things could be causing the problem. 2. once you've had a bit of a look around existing posts, and know more about what your trouble might be, then i'd start up a new thread if you still need help. try and make the title more specific than this thread - the more focused your title the better help you'll get.

and i'm really sorry to hear about your new scooter - for £900 i'd have expected the bike to be in full working order.

On our ET4 there are also 2 fuses under the left hand panel of the dashboard!

Sounds like the battery just isn't holding charge any more - my bet is that the replacement battery wasn't given a proper forming charge, and you now have at least one shorted cell.

Get a new battery, and ensure it is fully charged before putting any load on it.

Also, the original battery running dry is a clue that the regulator may be over-charging the battery. Make sure that a fully charged battery doesn't go over 14.6V when the bike is at high revs with no lights on. If it does, get a new regulator.

Just got my Haynes Manual , kick start mech and new Regulator. Only thing is, how do I get the Variator cover off with the thread to the oil filter cap in the way?

Thanks

John

you need to remove the screws holding the airbox to the body of the scooter so that you can lift the airbox up and out of the way, then slide the transmission cover up so it clears the threads.

Had some time to work on the Vespa today. I was really surprise with what I found:





I think this is more or likley the problem. Yes that is a sandwich bag cover the exposed CDI unit.

Best and cheapest place to get a new one? Plus do I need to change the ignition as it's got the immobiliser on it?

Another photo showing the sandwich bag more