Modern Vespa

I've installed the Stebel Air horn and documented the process for anyone else that is considering this horn. The horn is attached with a bracket to an existing u-nut on the front frame. I'm not sure if this u-nut is used for the Piaggio stock windshield but I do know that using it for the horn will not effect the install of the Givi windshield.

If you use a thick enough bracket the tie-wraps aren't really needed, I just added them for safety.

Stay tuned for my next set of instructions for installing black Motolights in place of the front turn signals. (I'm replacing the stock mirrors with Ducati mirrors with integrated turn signals)

Great work....

Doug

nicely done...i got the horn the other day and opened up the side of my scooter, looked around and closed it back up...

i am an idiot with this stuff, so i figured i would wait for somebody smart and handy to to it first...

you should sell a kit here...bracket, form, ties and screws....


i do have a question...how hard was it to do the wiring?...i fear the wiring...heck i don't even know where the freakin whimpy horn is


g

this will be a weekend project for next weekend

Actually I haven't completed or even started the wiring. I removed the front lower panel (behind the front suspension) to access the horn. This was not intuitive at all, Piaggio has at least 4 types of screws in different locations. So I had to take a digital picture of each screw near it's intended location so that I don't strip the hole by re-installing in the wrong location.

I have lots of experience removing body work on my Honda ST1300, I've done it about 20 times since I installed modifications at different times. Honda at least uses common fasteners for most of the body panels. With the Piaggio I can tell that I only want to remove the body panels a few times because the durability might not be there. So I'm trying to install and wire all modifications at once.

So I have access to the horn now and have removed the left lower panel under the running boards to route the wiring from the battery to a secondary fuse panel (http://www.centechwire.com/catalog/panels/fb4.shtml) for the horn & Motolights. I think it might be easier to find the wire routing from the horn switch to horn and tap in rather than removing the panel to gain access at the horn.

If you remove the small panel in the LH footwell you can get at the original horn wiring there. There's also a handy place to mount the relay (fed from original wiring). Then it's just a fused large-gauge wire direct from the battery to relay to horn, earthing the horn via the frame.

I will be interested in how the Ducati Mirrors go. I have been trying to figure out a way to mount Kisan Vectra lights, which have similar attributes (maybe a few more features than the Ducatis) but have been thwarted , mostly by the difficulty of dealing with the inaccessible nature of finding, and routing the wires with all the tupperware in the way.
A regular motorcycle would be quite easy in comparison.
With the Vectra lights you need to wire into the turn signal and brake light lines, then get the wire up through the handlebars. Also connect to a steady 12 volt wire.
I am inept, but other mechanics I know seem daunted as well.
No doubt it can be done, just don't think I have the determination.
I will not half disassemble the bike to do it, if thats what it needs.
Keep us posted!

Rob

Routing wires from the handlebar controls is simplier on this scooter than any of the bikes I've had. You don't need to disassemble any of hardware that holds the handlebars, just route through the same openings used for the throttle and brake cables. With the side covers off you will see elastic tubing at the top of the steering tube, just route through this and stay away from the suspension, very easy.

The real pain is removing the panel below the floorboards. So I'm only doing it once.

Here is a link to the Ducati mirrors with wiring at the base of the mounting hardware.

http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php?topic=84135.msg1086987

It seems for me, finding the brakelight wiring in the front of the bike
has been the biggest snag. You can easily see where the turn signals are and the wires going away from them. The brake light wires, I don't know. Luckily you won't need to find the brake wires however since the Ducatis don't have the brakelight function.
Maybe I should just hook up the turnsignals which is mostly what I wanted anyway.
Nice thing about the Kisan is they provide running lights, brake lights, and sequential turn signals ,front and back. Bad thing is, I am stuck figuring them out.
Keep in mind, I am like an idiot savant, brilliant in a few areas, and dim as
a burned out bulb in others. My mechanical functioning is in the latter category.
Your Ducati mirrors look much cooler however, and really no more money.

I found the reason I couldn't get the wires through was they were not stiff enough,but I got some tubing through and out the bottom, so it should be easy enough to have the running lights and the turn signals hooked up.
I will have the guy do at least that much when he does the 600 mile service,
just much easier to do all that if it were up on a lift anyway. And should cost very little. I can live with that.

Encouraged by the great photos and suggestions in this thread, I ordered a Stebel horn. I mounted it as shown in the photos and ran all of the wiring to that small compartment above the left floorboard. I found what I assumed to be the horn wires, the only single pair in that compartment and cut the leads to the old horn. I ran a fused power wire from the battery to the same area and hooked all the wires to the relay that comes with the horn.

Imagine my surprise when I hit my horn button an heard the familiar and pathetic "beep beep". My surprise was quickly surpassed by my profound dismay upon seeing that my lights no longer shine and my seat does not open. Hitting the seat button on the key does make the new relay click, but does not activate the release.

Any ideas as to which wires are the horn wires? How about suggestions on how to reconnect the wires I cut that I can no longer get to? And, if by some miracle I do get it working, my next challenge will be putting the plastic back together. My first attempt left 9 screws still sitting on the floor.

WOW....

In the future I would suggest the Posi-Tap connectors. I'm not a big fan of these due to the cost but they serve the function without any cutting or splicing. They can be found at a Napa Auto parts center locally.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/posi-tap/posi-tap.htm

You can tap into the stock horn relay to activate the Stebel horn relay at the bank of 4 relays. I think it's the 2nd relay from the left , the 12v wire is yellow with a colored strip. (I will post a photo later tonight). The Piaggio horn relay is quiet, so you cannot hear it click. I had to use a voltage meter to verify the correct wire. Flatten the wire locally before using the Posi-tap because it needs to be a little wider so it stays centered in the connector.

If you need I can e-mail photos of all the screws I removed and their respective locations.

I would also suggest downloading the wiring diagram for proper identification of the wires. The wire color codes are at the top right of the document.

http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Gilera%20Fuoco/Fuoco_Wiring_Diagram.pdf

While you're at Napa you might want to get a few of these....

mmm, photos would be great for us who are electrically challenged

a sort of, take this off, find this wire, cut this wire, connect this, connect that, put that back on, apply bandages to cut fingers, cuss at spare screws on the floor

etc etc


thanks

g

Here is a photo of the connection from the stock horn relay output to the Stebel Horn Relay input. This will allow both the stock horn and Stebel horn to activate at the same time. I have setup my Stebel Horn to only work when the Motolights are switched on with the motor running. I didn't want the Stebel horn to activate should the stock horn be activated for any reason while the scooter is not running. I believe someone on this forum had a low hydraulic pressure situation which activated the horn. This allows me the option of both a Stebel horn + stock horn or the stock horn only should the 'scooter sound' be wanted.

Also noted in the photo is the connection to the headlight relay output. I used this connection for the Motolights. So the Motolights will turn on with the headlights several seconds after engine start.

that was me....i was thinking the same thing...i want the loud horn for highway cars coming into my lane, but didn't want a truck horn blaring in my garage if the warning honk comes on again like it did with the low fluids...

this sounds great...

now i just have to make a brace and find the guts to play with the wiring

g


mmmm extra lights and such? i have mine wired so all four lights are on when the high beams are on...

which extra lights do you have?

maybe i should ride out to ky and have you set up my lights and horn...

let me ask a simple question (i'm a simple guy)

i do your lovely bracket and hook horn to frame...

i hook into the yellow and pink wire with the posi tap, connect to relay and connect relay to horn...

all simple and quick and all in the same work area

how do i put a start up delay into the strebel horn, but not the scooter horn

thanks

g

If you hooked up the horn relay directly to the battery (post 30 on the relay) then you need to add another relay between the battery and the stebel horn relay post 30.

So you would activate this additional relay by hooking up to the output from the stock headlight relay as noted in the photo above. What I'm doing is using this additional relay to route power to an additional fuse block for the horn, motolights, and gps power.

I know these instructions might be a little difficult to follow if you are not experienced in wiring this stuff but I'm trying to finish these installs so I can ride the scooter. I've only ridden the scooter home from the dealer, I immediately started removing the body panels to plan the modifications and order parts. So once everything is installed I will update the instructions to a higher level of detail with schematics so they are easier to understand.

cool

i am a complete novice that shouldn't be allowed near a blow dryer, let alone a complex machine like the fuoco...

get yours put together, ride it alot, have fun

and when you get the chance to throw up some detailed instructions that even an idiot like me can follow, i will be very happy...

but please have some fun with your ride first

g

What advantages do I get from the new horn and mirrors that the stock ones do not have?

For the stock horn I doubt anyone will hear you at speed if they have the radio on in the car, it just isn't loud enough. The Stebel horn will get attention and quickly because they will think you are a Mack Truck.

The LED mirrors are neccessitated by the installation of the Motolights into the stock turn signal location. I think it also provides for better visibility for the turn signals since they are located higher. The mirror area is actually smaller than stock so this is a disadvantage. You could order Ducati Multistrada mirrors if you don't want to go with LED's and maintain a similiar mirror surface area as stock.

A cheaper alternative to the Ducati mirrors are these which I found on Ebay, but no telling about the quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ducati-Styled-Mirrors-10-mm-mount-built-in-turn-signals_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ35587QQihZ018QQitemZ280218529339

I simply zip tied the unit with 4 ties in the upper right compartment, then pulled the leads off the horn and ran wires from them thru the tunnel and up to the horn, zip tying all the way. Really quick and easy. And using the Piaggio original relay.
Sounds awesome I am gonna go cruising for semi's to honk at.

mmmm, haven't done mine yet...this sounds like the easiest solution so far...any photos? or quick drawing...

g

First remove windscreen, 4 bolts plus one under the Piaggio logo that pops off with a screwdriver or knife. Then remove the center fairing that goes around the high beam lights. Then you can remove the right side fairing and will have access to the space available behind and to the right of the instrument panel. Mount Stebel onto frame tubing members with tie-wraps. The Stebel horn should face down (more or less).

Locate the stock nside the front left fender. Get down on your back with a flashlight and look up thru the center tunnel area towards the stock horn. There are two female connections coming off of the stock horn. Use a long screwdriver or needle nose pliers to pull them off. The black is negative, the other has yellow and yellow/pink, it is positive. Thread replacement wire from suspension compartment thru tunnel and connect positive to the yellow set, then run that wire (plus some extra) up to the positive terminal on the Stebel. Repeat with negative. Then tie wrap those wires in several places avoiding the suspension. Nip, tuck, wrap, clean up. Test horn. If only the compressor sounds, the neg and pos are just reversed.
Button up bodywork in reverse order.
Blast away.

Here are some instructions I created for removing the side covers.

Hey folks - just got my Stebel yesterday and looking to put it in. When I had my Kawasaki Z1 years ago an air horn was one of the things I put int to stay alive. They sure have improved since those days! Anyway - looking to figure out the best/easiest way to get the front fairing off to mount the horn on my 400. Also - I see some of you are using the stock horn relay - is it sufficient to handle the Stebel?
Thanks!
Jon

You can not use the stock horn relay to power the horn. Think they are just using that to activate the new horn relay. You have to run a 14 gauge wire from the battery to the new relay.

Wayne B

mmm...i thought i saw somebody who put theirs to the front and used the horn wiring??

g

It says right in the instructions that the horn will MELT your stock wiring if you try and use it.

Wayne B

I used the stock light relay to the new horn relay so it only works when the bike is running. If you just turn the key, don't start the bike, and hit the horn, you only get the stock horn. Turn the bike on, and hit the horn and you get both.

too complicated for me, will throw $$ at it to get it installed at dealer....

I had previously heard about Northern Tool having their air horns on sale for $29.95 - it is roughly the size of the Stebel Nautilus (which I have on my V-Strom) and supposedly made by Stebel (not verified however).

Wolo Bad Boy

I got one for future projects. I tested it along with mine and the wife said it was OK to install on her new MP3 500.





So, I read thru the good information above (thanks all!) and started pulling tupperware off of the 2-week old scoot. Of course, I waited until after the first service.

First, I used Lex's side cover removal - 4 screws for the undercowl piece, 6 screws for each side piece. I use a 15-compartment box to organize the screws as they come off.

My wife had already lost the leftside "corner" screw that Lex shows in his photo as "cosmetic only". I noticed that the right side was loose and wouldn't tighten. With the panel off, I tightened the nut and added a drop of locktite to keep it that way.



I also removed the front "windscreen" panel, assisted by seldom's instructions - 4 screws (3 long and 1 short ???) plus a screw under the pop-off Piaggio emblem. This uncovers the four relays and their sockets:



One good thing is that there is plenty of room under the front to add stuff. I poked around, reread the suggestions here, and decided on a plan. As mentioned, I didn't want the air horn operational unless the motor was running, plus I didn't want to have to run additional +12 volt wires from the battery when we added stuff later, So, I decided to route the positive via 12 gauge wire thru a relay controlled by the headlight relay output to a small fuse panel on the left side front (I intended to mount the horn on the right side).

When I went to Napa to pick up some Posi-taps, I found this small fuse box for about $16:



I typically use a Blue Sea 5025 but this is smaller (and cheaper!) and looks like it will fit the bill.

It looked like the biggest pain was running the 12 gauge wire from the battery up into the cowl area. Of course, just the wire would not route on its own and the rifle bore cleaning rod was too thick, so a regular coat hanger was enlisted to pull the wire through.

Here I opened the two lower rightside hatches to run the "puller" from the left and drag the wire from right-to-left:



I then ran the puller from the top next to the battery to pull the wire up from the bottom. At the battery, I spliced in a fuse holder (best for protecting the long wire run forward) and a ring crimp connector. The fuse holder will house a 30 amp fuse. I left this unconnected for now.



Finally, I estimated and cut the wire and fed it up thru the tunnel into the cowl area. I finally had something to tie-wrap to, so that was done to route the wire up into the 4-relay area.



As per Lex's discussion, I was planning to use two relays - one to power the new aux fuse box and the other to power the new horn. The horn relay came with the horn, so I acquired a Bosch 12-volt relay for the other.

I didn't take an interim picture but I mounted the two relays on the square frame supports near the bank of 4 relays. Here is the result after wiring:



I looked at Lex's relay map and it didn't match mine. All the relays are exactly the same, so the order really doesn't matter. I used the volt meter to find the headlamp relay and the horn relay. It appears that two of the relays perform the headlight function - I made sure that it supplied power with either high or low beam selected.

I crimped a connector to the new power wire and attached it to pin 30 of the new motor-on relay. Pin 87 then got a short run of 12 gauge to the left side cowl where a ring connector was added and attached to the new aux fuse panel. The panel was attached to the back of the front console with hefty double-stick tape. If this fails to hold well, I'll drill a mounting hole and add a bolt and nut. Trying to not affect the asthetics at this point!

The new aux fuse panel mounted in the left cowl:



I used the Posi-Tap off the pin 87 wire from the headlight relay and used a crimp connector and some 18 gauge wire to route to pin 85 on the new motor-on relay. I like the Posi-Tap (first time to use them) and need to order an assortment (Napa just carries one type) from their online store.

Now there was a dilemma - where to pick up the ground? There were two shiny bolts on the square frame just below where I would mount the two new relays (not mounted yet) but they were just a bit too confined. So, off came the main front panel - 6 screws - four facing forward and two in the middle of each side pointing up - all 6 are easy to see. Once loose, I let the thing hang rather than disconnect 5-6 cables and risk missing one later.

I quickly rigged two 18 gauge black wires with ring connectors and a lug - one on each side. I also rigged a 14 gauge black wire with ring connector on the left (right side of scooter) to go to the horn.

You can see two shiny bolts here prior to attaching the ground wires. The panel is loose and hanging down a bit.



It is a good time to mount the two relays with the front panel loose - just a little more room. I used two tie-wraps for each relay, placing the just above the ground connections.

I plugged the ground wire on the right (left side of scooter) to pin 86 on the motor-on relay. Now was time for a power test - I connected the fused power wire to the battery and inserted a 30 amp fuse. I connected my volt meter to the lug on the aux fuse panel and to one of the unconnected ground wires.

key off - no voltage (good!)
key on - no voltage (still good!)
started motor - short delay - voltage (hooray!)

Shutting the scoot down, next task was the horn itself.

Very nice pictures. I've already done off of this, but somehow your install looks cleaner than mine was.

First task for the horn was to route power from the new aux fuse panel to the new air horn relay (not to be confused to the existing horn relay in the bank of 4).

The yellow wire is 14 gauge to handle the horn current. It is the only thing connected right now. The documentation recommends a 20 amp fuse, so that is what is plugged in.





I did a low-tech mount of the horn unit - I added some double stick tape to one edge and then tie-wrapped it with 11" ties to the forward frame piece. It wobbles a little and I'll see it a bracket is in its future after it sees a little road time. There is an extra piece of double stick tape at the bottom to try to keep the tie-wraps from slipping.





Final connections were to add crimp lugs to the various wires and connect them: Yellow wire from the aux fuse panel (fused lug) to pin 30 on the airhorn relay. Another 14 gauge yellow wire from pin 87 to the + lug on the horn. The 14 gauge ground wire went to the - lug on the horn. The horn relay was found (it was the only one with pin 30 of the relay at 0 volts with the key on) and the pin 87 wire tapped with a Posi-tap - that wire went to pin 85 on the air horn relay. Pin 86 on the air horn relay got the remaining ground wire.

I now double checked all the wires, made sure two fuses were in the chain (30 at the battery, 20 in the new aux fuse panel).

key on - pressed horn button and got the old wimpy horn
motor started, pressed horn button and waited for ears to stop ringing.

30 seconds later, the wife comes out on the patio and says "I heard it!"

looks like a sucessful test!

Hope this helps somebody. Again, thanks to the folks that have already contributed to this thread - it was a great starting point!

-------

summary of wire connections:

power to aux fuse panel:
battery +12 to inline fuse to pin 30 of motor-on relay.
pin 87 of motor-on relay to main common lug on aux fuse panel.

control of motor-on relay:
tapped from headlight relay pin 87 to pin 85 of motor-on relay.
ground wire (frame) to pin 86 of motor-on relay.

horn power
from 20 amp fuse lug on aux fuse panel to pin 30 on air horn relay
from pin 87 on air horn relay to + lug on air horn
ground (14 gauge) to - lug on air horn

horn control
tapped from existing horn relay pin 87 to pin 85 of air horn relay.
ground wire (frame) to pin 86 of air horn relay.

-------

This should work with Stebel Nautilus as well - watch the polarity on the horn itself - it is a pitiful horn if reversed...

"I simply zip tied the unit with 4 ties in the upper right compartment, then pulled the leads off the horn and ran wires from them thru the tunnel and up to the horn, zip tying all the way. Really quick and easy. And using the Piaggio original relay.
Sounds awesome I am gonna go cruising for semi's to honk at."

That was bull-roar. The fuse kept blowing out. Then the 20 ga wires fried. So I rewired it with 12 ga wire and went thru the Stebel relay with a 20 amp fuse as suggested. Now it works great. So much for shortcuts.

Just a quick data point for those non-DIYers. Today I dropped off my MP3 500 at the dealer to have them install the Stebel Nautilus horn. Well, this would have been their first install on an MP3 and needless to say they did not have a clue.

I forwarded the dealer this URL link for instructions, which helped a little. After they floundered with the bike for one hour they could not give me a solid time quote (note: they absorbed the first hour). I received an initial quote of four hours minimum ($90/hr), but it would likely go higher.

So, I will be picking up the machine today and doing it myself during the rainy season.

Other than the inordinate cost, one other point of interest was the dealer's opinion on the securing of the horn. They were hell bent on fabricating a metal bracket for the horn. Apparently, the horn wants to turn / rotate when used and the plastic tie downs will likely fail over time due to the stress.

actually we had the bracket done, the wires ready to pull to the relay and install when you called and said you didn't want us to do it.

So the bike went back together.

we have done steibels on gts and other bikes, with the relay system it is really easy.

with custom installs that are not factory, the times are tbd - we were very up front with you on that .

When I came in I talked with the tech and was able to get the ball rolling.

When you have the bike apart to get the horn in, you should try to re- route those wires that are taped to the outside of your bike for your heated grips. It will be easy to tuck all that behind the panels.

I didn't know the Stebel Nautilus could be seperated.I was at stellaspeed forum last week and one member/poster installed his(due to lack of space) in 2 different spots,on his stella.The guy even posted pics.He said it works just fine.Go figure.

Tim

Hmmm - I guess that the compressor could be separated from the actual horn - you'd have to connect the air flow of course - unsure how they mate. The compressor is by far the bulky/heavy part - it *would* be nice to mount the horn where could project with maximum volume. Under the cowl it is muffled a bit (tho still pretty darned loud). Anyone have details on how to take it apart and what is needed to match the two parts?

Ok I found a few pics of the seperation of the Stebel horn on this guy's stella. Oh yea,I forgot in my last post to tell you this guy also put a floor button in for the horn.Yep,he just presses the button with his foot and beep beep.

Now that is rather interesting! I haven't installed mine on the MP3-500 yet. In fact, I haven't even removed it from the packaging, but this expands the options quite a bit! Hanging sign "Engineer At Work"!

8)