Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:37 pm

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Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:37 pm linkquote
I'm torn between which 70cc kit to purchase .
Does anybody know which manufacturer makes the better quality cylinder?
Perhaps, somebody can explain any superior differences between the two.

Thanks,

Hugo
Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:02 pm

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Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:02 pm linkquote
Re: Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
Hugo wrote:
I'm torn between which 70cc kit to purchase .
Does anybody know which manufacturer makes the better quality cylinder?
Perhaps, somebody can explain any superior differences between the two.

Thanks,

Hugo
The airsal is aluminum and the Malossi is cast iron. The performance is pretty close to the same. Aluminum disapates heat better but on the low end cylinders that's usually not a problem. It really depends on what else you want to do in terms of tuning. But if you want to do a lot more I wouldn't chose either of their budget cylinder kits. The airsal kits can sometimes be roughly finished but the ones I've seen are OK. The malossi kit is very well finished. There are some higher performing cylinders from each brand but you usually have to order from overseas to get them. I think Motorsport has the highest end AC malossi for the piaggio 50, but they are out of the MHR replica.
Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:03 pm

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Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:03 pm linkquote
Re: Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
BGK wrote:
Hugo wrote:
I'm torn between which 70cc kit to purchase .
Does anybody know which manufacturer makes the better quality cylinder?
Perhaps, somebody can explain any superior differences between the two.

Thanks,

Hugo
The airsal is aluminum and the Malossi is cast iron. The performance is pretty close to the same. Aluminum disapates heat better but on the low end cylinders that's usually not a problem. It really depends on what else you want to do in terms of tuning. But if you want to do a lot more I wouldn't chose either of their budget cylinder kits. The airsal kits can sometimes be roughly finished but the ones I've seen are OK. The malossi kit is very well finished. There are some higher performing cylinders from each brand but you usually have to order from overseas to get them. I think Motorsport has the highest end AC malossi for the piaggio 50, but they are out of the MHR replica.
Is an aluminum cylinder more susceptible to seizure than cast iron from extreme heat?

Is it safe to assume that aftermarket cylinders are not as reliable as the stock minerelli?
Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:11 pm

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Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:11 pm linkquote
No contest here. The malossi kits are waaaay better. They seize far less and are better made. There are clear quality difference apparent even to the naked eye.

Malossi also offers an aluminum barrel - it's called an MHR kit - it's significantly more expensive than the cast iron.

Having kitted many Piaggio 50's I can recommend replacing your stock carb also. It makes a huge difference to go with a 17.5 or 19mm Malossi carb kit (delorto). You will also want a variator.

Also, the Leo Vince exhausts work well for the price.
Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:27 pm

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Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:27 pm linkquote
Re: Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
Hugo wrote:
Is an aluminum cylinder more susceptible to seizure than cast iron from extreme heat?

Is it safe to assume that aftermarket cylinders are not as reliable as the stock minerelli?
No, in theory the alu cylinder will be less likely to seize but it depends on the quality of construction. That's where the malossi usually excels. If it's installed correctly, and all things being equal they are as reliable as stock.

But you do not have a Minarelli engine in the Typhoon. The piaggio 50cc engine is completely different.
Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:06 am

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Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:06 am linkquote
The only Airsal kits we've seen have been busted ones coming in to our shop to be replaced with Malossi ones. We don't have a good impression with the Airsals at all.

The MHR replica kits are pretty good, but I don't recommend the full MHR kits unless you want to replace the piston ring every 20 hours.
Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:49 am

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Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:49 am linkquote
Motorsport Scooters wrote:
The only Airsal kits we've seen have been busted ones coming in to our shop to be replaced with Malossi ones. We don't have a good impression with the Airsals at all.
The MHR replica kits are pretty good, but I don't recommend the full MHR kits unless you want to replace the piston ring every 20 hours.
If that is the case, why is the MHR so much more expensive? I was considering the least expensive one anyways.
Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:11 am

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Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:11 am linkquote
Re: Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
BGK wrote:
But you do not have a Minarelli engine in the Typhoon. The piaggio 50cc engine is completely different.
That's news. I was told by many different sources that the Typhoon and the ET2 both have Minarelli engines. Are you totally sure?
Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:30 am

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Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:30 am linkquote
Re: Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
Hugo wrote:
BGK wrote:
But you do not have a Minarelli engine in the Typhoon. The piaggio 50cc engine is completely different.
That's news. I was told by many different sources that the Typhoon and the ET2 both have Minarelli engines. Are you totally sure?
126% sure. Who ever said that doesn't know what they are talking about.

The MHR is more expensive because it is made to perform the best in terms of power output. Race machines don't last as long.
Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:01 pm

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Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:01 pm linkquote
Re: Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
Hugo, did you get my PM?
Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:08 pm

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Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:08 pm linkquote
Re: Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
BGK wrote:
Hugo, did you get my PM?
Yes, I just replied. Thanks.
Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:26 pm

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Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:26 pm linkquote
femsatronic wrote:
No contest here. The malossi kits are waaaay better. They seize far less and are better made. There are clear quality difference apparent even to the naked eye.
Motorsport Scooters wrote:
The only Airsal kits we've seen have been busted ones coming in to our shop to be replaced with Malossi ones. We don't have a good impression with the Airsals at all.
out of interest, isn't the new RB22 kit from AF made by airsal?

but yeah, ditto. malossi all the way on the ET2. the standard 70 kit is a good performer, and dammn near bullet proof.

best,
-greasy
Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:36 pm

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Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:36 pm linkquote
Quote:
but yeah, ditto. malossi all the way on the ET2. the standard 70 kit is a good performer, and dammn near bullet proof.

best,
-greasy
Which model are you recommending? I'm looking at about 3 of them on the motorsportscooter website.

Thanks,

Hugo
Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:24 am

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Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:24 am linkquote
hugo, you can't go wrong with any of the malossi kits. they are all top quality. however, you need to pick the one that best suits the level of tuning you are looking for and the type of riding you do.

the malossi MHR kit makes crazy power, but as max noted you'll be changing the rings every 20hrs. you'll need an aftermarket crank, a big carb and true expansion chamber exhaust to even consider this kit. tuning on the transmission side is a must, too, so figure a variator and probably clutch and pully mods or replacement.

the MHR replica kit makes really good power and is a little more robust, the twin ring design means you'll be looking at a little more longevity. you could probably run a 17.5 carb, stock airbox and the leo vince SP3 pipe with this kit and make a nice little ripper. you'll need to do minor mods on the trans components with this set up.

the standard 70 kit is a very good upgrade if you're looking for a little more power and to keep reliability and ease of maintenence. with a stock carb upjetted, airfilter, rollers, and a sito or SP3 this is a very nice reliable, rideable set up. replace the belt with a /3 though, the stock belts tend to snap with the additional power.

best,
-greasy
Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:01 am

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Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:01 am linkquote
Quote:
the standard 70 kit is a very good upgrade if you're looking for a little more power and to keep reliability and ease of maintenence. with a stock carb upjetted, airfilter, rollers, and a sito or SP3 this is a very nice reliable, rideable set up. replace the belt with a /3 though, the stock belts tend to snap with the additional power.

best,
-greasy
I'm most likely going for the standard kit.
I have a Polini kevlar belt. That should be able to handle the extra power, right?
Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:52 am

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Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:52 am linkquote
Hugo wrote:
I'm most likely going for the standard kit.
I have a Polini kevlar belt. That should be able to handle the extra power, right?
yeah, your polini belt should be fine.

best,
-greasy
Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:20 am

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Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:20 am linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
out of interest, isn't the new RB22 kit from AF made by airsal?


best,
-greasy
Yes Greasy knockoff of me....
That is correct.



I had the H20 cooled Malossi 65cc cast iron kit on my Dragster 50 that was excellent.
with a 21mm carb.Malossi variator,straight cut final drive gears,Malossi clutch,Kevlar belt and an Arrow exhaust.

It would haul my 200lb ass to about 70 mph
I did suck a reed once pushing the bike hard. (Trying to remember if they were Polini or Malossi carbon fibre reeds?....oh well)

Other than that?
Bulletproof.....Malossi does seem to make the best scooter parts.
(Most performance scooter stuff is absolutely questionable compared to Motorcycle items.)

Shoot me an email Greasy if you are going to be in town this weekend. (I know you were planning on Hedo...but if things change I will be in LA tomorrow visiting family friends.)
Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:46 am

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Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:46 am linkquote
I had a 172cc Malossi kit on my old 125 Typhoon.

Fitted it at 11,000kms and sold it with 30,000kms on the clock and it was still running fine. Wish I never sold it.
Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:19 am

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Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:19 am linkquote
Thom wrote:
Yes Greasy knockoff of me....
That is correct.
lookit here captain weirdbeard, you are totally the knockoff of me!
Quote:
It would haul my 200lb ass to about 70 mph
if your ass is 200lb my ass is a beauty parlour!
Quote:
Shoot me an email Greasy if you are going to be in town this weekend. (I know you were planning on Hedo...but if things change I will be in LA tomorrow visiting family friends.)
hedo-- out.
working my ass off-- in.

in fact i heard that working your ass off is the new black.

holler back, yo. let us get together and consume beer.

best,
-greasy
Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:02 pm

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Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:02 pm linkquote
Polini makes their own stuff...Malossi farms theirs out......
The tuners in England, like Polini more....
Iron kits will last longer than alumium, and can be rebored.....
Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:14 am

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Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:14 am linkquote
both poini and malossi export there goods so you should be able to get either, i wouldn't get a airsal kit there are quality issues wuth some parts of the kits

depending what you want to do polin or malossi sport kits should do for everyday use and you would need to get a gear up kit to make the most of the extra power overwise you'll be reving the engine but going anywhere really

also the typhoon is a piaggio so it would have a piaggio engine

it might be worth just a diffrent exhaust first if you want it to go that bit faster for not much money

there are just my opinions
Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:07 am

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Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:07 am linkquote
greg531 wrote:
Iron kits will last longer than alumium, and can be rebored.....
Interesting....but an aluminum cylinder with a Nicasil bore will last infinitely longer than an iron cylinder.
The only issue comes when it is time to resleeve the nicasil...
then the Iron cylinder beats it as it can be rebored much more easily.


But unless your cylinder is H20 cooled the Iron will always run hotter.....which equals less reliable....(And the piston is usually aluminum which equals different expansion rates.....which can equal seizures.)

That is why 99.9% of all later model 2 stroke dirt bikes ran Nicasil lined aluminum.
You end up wearing out rings as opposed to wearing out the bore.




I am not saying that iron doesnt work.....it just runs hotter....& wears faster.
Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:35 pm

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Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:35 pm linkquote
greg531 wrote:
Iron kits will last longer than alumium, and can be rebored.....
Wouldn't it be much less of a hassle to just replace the cylinder rather than reboring or resleeving? Both the Airsal and the Malossi that I'm looking at are each under $200. If I were to spend the time removing it, I'd assume just throwing a new one on there.
Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:23 pm

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Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:23 pm linkquote
Yes, replacement is cheaper. Plus there are no sleeves for these cylinders and most stateside shops don't stock replacement pistons anyway. The cost of a rebore and a replacement piston would be more than just buying a new kit.
Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:32 am

Molto Verboso
63 GL 150, 05 Typhoon, 09 Beo 200
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Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:32 am linkquote
There is a new Polini Corsa 70cc kit and a slighty used exhaust in the Buy sell section...for the Typhoon....
Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:31 am

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Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:31 am linkquote
greg531 wrote:
There is a new Polini Corsa 70cc kit and a slighty used exhaust in the Buy sell section...for the Typhoon....
Ya, that's a good deal and he's a friend of mine. I'd buy it if I had the scratch.
Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:50 am

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Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:50 am linkquote
BGK wrote:
greg531 wrote:
There is a new Polini Corsa 70cc kit and a slighty used exhaust in the Buy sell section...for the Typhoon....
Ya, that's a good deal and he's a friend of mine. I'd buy it if I had the scratch.
I'm still trying to decide whether to build up with a 70cc kit or just simply upgrade. I've been looking at the Genuine Rattler 110 lately. It's a 2 stroke. After staring at multiple reviews, I haven't read anything bad yet.
I'll probably make my decision within a couple of weeks.
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