Modern Vespa

I had some of each type sitting around for checking the fit of the Snowflake wrenches so I decided to open them up and see what (if any) the difference was.

Here's what I found
1. can of piaggio seems thicker than the hiflo
2. there is paint overspary on the inside of the piaggio filter
3. The hiflo has 39 folds in the filter element to piaggio's 34
4. The springs that hold the filter in place are different
5. the bypass valve on the hiflo was stuck and has a much stiffer spring than the piaggio

some pros and cons for each but as long as you change them on schedule you're probably fine.

Excellent thanks!!!
This is the second time I've read about a stuck bypass valve on a HiFlo. The other was claimed to be a problem. Opinions on his problem? (makes the Piaggio more attractive, What effect does the "gap in the mesh" have on filtering?

couple of questions...

-Is there any advantage of one spring over the other?
-Does the filter media seem to be of the same quality?

The force required to open the bypass (after it was unstuck) was ~40N for the piaggio and ~50N for the Hiflo. The Hiflo bypass was really really stuck and required at least twice that force to free it.

The gap in the mesh would have no effect on filtering but if the filter clogged then the element could collapse. But with a working bypass that's unlikely. The spring on the end of the filter just has to maintain a light pressure against the rubber gasket. from there the oil pressure will keep it sealed. The piaggio spring force is higher but I don't think it makes much difference.

The filter media seems to be the same stuff.

The genuine piaggio filters are made by Sentec E&E and are very good quality, the paint further down the inside was to help corrosion resistance on the outer casing to base plate joint, as its a known weak point for oil filters.... especially when piaggio wanted 10,000km service intervals for it.

The reason the hiflo will have a slightly higher pressure release tension is due to the greater internal oil restriction in the filter cause by the fewer internal holes in the strengthening baffle, if they fitted the same strength as piaggios ones it would cause false openings.

I did cut a malossi one open, as i mentioned in the previous topic about them, unfortunately i didnt take pictures when i did it, so will do on the next one, it was better built than the hiflo for sure, much more similar in quality to piaggios one, but not better in my opinion, and with the price i couldnt see the point.

I paid $40.00 for a Piaggio filter for my BV 500 from my local dealer. I'll buy a third party filter from Scooter Trap or somewhere else thank you.

Dave

The question of whether or not cheap oil filters are just as good as the Piaggio OEM can't be answered w/o test data. It would be helpful in anyone has seen any kind of comparison test data on hi-flo vs. ANY other filter types to see where it rates in general. Without test data the question becomes how much you're willing to risk wear and tear on your engine which may not be important to you if you're only going to keep your ride for a couple of years. If you're not buying the original you're best advised to stick to a medium priced name-brand filter and not go for the cheapest filter you can find since these almost always involve some compromises in workmanship and/or materials. (I work with design engineers at a manufacturing company.) You cannot judge filter quality by where it's made as a variety of countries in Asia (China included) now offer some of the best manufacturing technology and quality around and are only getting better as they compete for business.

The best test of the oil filter is measurement of the condition of the oil (suspended particulates) under a controlled set of running conditions. The impact on your engine probably isn't going to be seen with any filter after only 10,000 miles of riding unless it's a catastrophic failure.

The most important attributes of the filter are surface area and porosity of the filter media (natural or synthetic fiber). The objective is to filter out the smallest particles possible w/o blocking the filter within the normal oil change interval. Increasing the amount of surface area increase the amount of time you can use the filter of a defined pore size before it is blocked.

The other key component is the bypass valve. This allows the oil to bypass the filter and return to the engine in the event the filter media becomes blocked so you don't lose oil pressure and blow your engine. However, there's almost no chance you'll ever need this valve to work if you are changing your filter at recommended intervals.

The following site provides nice information on how an oil filter is supposed to work. http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/297.cfm

A couple of additional afterthoughts to complete my earlier post...

The fact that the folds of the hi-flo filter are compressed together on the inside of the filter will make this filter more susceptable to faster blockage than the Piaggio filter. That along with the sticking bypass valve is a concern. Also, seeing more than one source indicating a stuck by-pass valve indicates a quality issue that is not a one-time outlier and this makes you question over all quality. I'd be more concerned about these types of design problems than a less effective filter media which might produce a littler more engine wear vs. a catasrophic failure.

Note also you can't begin to predict the effectiveness of filter media w/o using a microscope to examine the microstructure of the media since you can't see the difference between 20 and 70 microns with your naked eye.

Never.

If the filter plugged the oil would simply bypass. The filter is in a parallel loop. Look at a filter and you will see that its construction provides for a fail safe operation.

Oil filter changes and oil changes are marketing ploys.

Oil never wears out.
It can and is recycled all the the time. The main problem, is removal of contaminants.
Filters do this and need to be changed from time to time.
NOT necessarily according to marketing demands, such as your 3k, 6k, 9k, skeds in the manuals.
These skeds are a marketing gimmick to coerce the consumer into a particular mind set.
This allows substantial profits to be made with after sale services.

Dave, did he kiss you??? Before, or after???

Here's a couple of links with interesting information...

On the 3K mile oil change rule of thumb which is historical in nature and not applicable to today's improved oils, and on what happens to oils over time...yes, your oil still needs to be changed no matter which filter you use or how often you change it.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

On oil filter function and recommendations...

http://www.mgnoc.com/_overlay/Archives/oil_filters.htm

Still have not found any kind of real test data comparing filter efficiency.

I just replaced the engine oil (1000km maintenance) on my new Vespa LX 125 :

The original filter was made by Sofima (no Piaggio logo on it at all) and I used a Champion C320 as replacement.

The Champion filter (made in EU) seemed to be better quality than the Hiflofiltro HF183 (made in Thailand).

Hiflo claims they're filters are as good or better than oem. TUV tested and passed. Do you knowledgeable guys think this is just PR ?

My hiflo filter suggests it's made in the UK on the cardboard box. It's instructions are in Euro dialects. Nowhere on the filter does it show country of manufacture. I take that back....on the bottom of the box it says Made in Thailand. But maybe to TUV standards ?

Hiflo filter has 39 media folds to 34 for Piaggio filter.
This means the hiflo has more filtration surface area than the Piaggio.

I've used HiFlo quite happily. Here though the OEM ones are roughly the same price at the moment.

i looked on my genuine vespa piaggio filter & it is made by SENTEC E&ECO.,ltd.