Modern Vespa

Hello folks,

Just took delivery of my "Midnight Special" a few days ago, my first scoot, my first Vespa. WOO HOO!!

I completed the Oregon Basic Riders class back in April, and researched for this last couple months trying to decide between going to a motorcycle versus a scoot. Got pointed to MV from one of your members advertising their scoots on Portland's Craigslist, and learned all about the joys (and little tribulations) of riding Vespas. It sounded like such fun to be a "member" of the MV family, that I decided to start my PTW adventures on a Vespa...and we'll see if I move ot the "dark side" later on or not.

My ride is a Midnite Blue, 2007 Granturismo. A little "Special" because it came with a tan GTS seat and GTS rear rack instead of the standard GT fare. Wanna see a baby picture?



Even though just an MV and Vespa scooterist newbie, I thought I might try this first post with some technical mod info that might be helpful to other GT/GTS newbies.

As a brand new rider, it was a little disconcerting not having audible feedback for the turn signals on the GT. I saw "addicted's" mod in the MV Technical Library and decided to put those on. But I was very reluctant to have at the glove box panel with a pry bar, like he mentioned, in order to get to wiring points for the signals to route to the buzzer.

So I searched the GT electrical schematic in the manual and using a multimeter (I am a retired electrical eng. geek after all) I found out how to access the same turn signal wiring points thru the "pre wiring alarm plug" in back of the GT/GTS left knee panel. Here's a pic of the plug behind the panel door (with wiring already done.)





If you aren't using this OEM plug for an alarm system, (I don't have an alarm) then it has plug sockets that you can directly put in ground wires and the diode leads (from addicted's mods) without having to cut/splice into any wiring harnesses or remove any body panels for access.

I wired up the two diodes to the red buzzer wire and used the black buzzer wire just like addicted's MV library tech post. I happened to have some heat shrink tubing to enclose the soldered junctions, but you can use electical tape instead. The two (positive/anode) ends of the coupled diodes each go into one of the "alarm" plug holes as shown. Doesn't matter which diode goes into which hole, as long as you only use those two specific holes shown. The black buzzer wire goes into the "ground" hole. Heres the pic.



It makes a nice compact assembly. The free ends of the diode leads only have to be 1/2" or so long to fit down into the plug hole. The end of the black buzzer wire you can tin/coat with solder to make it stiff, and then it sticks down into the plug hole more easily. (I have some heat shrink on some of these lead ends just to make it nice.)

For mounting the Radio Shack Buzzer, I didn't use double side foam tape cause I didn't want it to be quite that "permanent". I used the Velcro fastener strips you can get from Home Depot and places. Just pull off the adhesive backing and stick one half of the Velcro strip "pair" to the back of the buzzer, and the other half of the strip to the base somewhere tucked back in the knee panel access. Here's a pic.



Makes a nice compact setup.. and if the buzzer ever craps out, you can cut the red/black wires in half, strip them back, and twist/wire nut the new buzzer in (after attaching new Velcro to the back.)

Pretty slick I think....but only if you (or me) don't want to install an alarm later on. But I'd like to be safer having those audible signals first.

Thanks to addicted for his original work on the circuit. Works like a charm.

Now for your amusement..some newbie foibles of mine when I finished up this project.

I wanted to test them out, so I insert the key, turn to on, and activate the turn signal. NOTHING! No blinking, no sound, nothing. Uh oh, I really screwed up the wiring / electronics / code unit, etc. We'll after a few more minutes of looking, I discovered that my scoot Kill Switch was in the OFF position. Just like the Training Class reinforced...ALWAYS shut down the bike with that switch (and I left it off.) And since I wasn't going to actually start the scoot, just test the signals.. I didn't turn it back on. Stupid newbie.

When I turned on the switch...then came out the glorious buzzing and blinking at the same time!

So off to sleep for the night....

Second stupid newbie event......

Ready to take it out the next morning for a ride, with actual AUDIBLE turn blinkers! Turn on the key, set the Kill Switch to on.. push the starter button....NOTHING. No crank, no nothing! Switch off and on again, push..NOTHING! Getting worried now. My wiring and "illegal" usage of the alarm block plug must have really messed something up. Addicted must have really known what he was doing when he used hard wired splices into the harnesses.

So back to the manual, troubleshooting table. Nothing useful..BUT THEN...looked at the written instructions for Starting.... (of course you vets already saw this coming...)

**press one of the brake levers when starting**!!!!

Class teaches you to press/pull the clutch when starting.. but this has no stinkin clutch lever! So you don't need that "action", right?

Stupid newbie.

Pull brake, start right up...ride around with big smile and happy ears listening to the turn signal audibles. Must have taken more turns that ride just to hear my successful handiwork.

Sorry if this is an "illegal" / too long a first post for a newbie to the group. Either just excited about being a part of MV .... or just another stupid newbie mistake.

sorry...didn't get the pics inserted right.

Stupid newbie.

I'll have to go try and see how to correct that.

Excellent first post. Welcome.

The problem with the image URL is that you ended it with "?v=0" for some reason. An image URL should end in an image extension (jpg, gif, png etc)

[edit] Ah, it seems you sorted it...

thanks jimc.

Boy you are fast on the reply.

I cut and pasted the URL from my flickr "storage" reference spot, and that end "junk" was included.

Not being too active on forums, I didn't really know how to do the pic posting.

But I figured it out while you were submitting..but if not.. you would have been there to save the day.

Appreciate it.

Your turn signal mod has been previously done and posted here. I did mine after checking out the link below... 8)

Installing a turn signal beeper in GT200/GTS

Remember to use the "search" function here when you want to find out how to do something! -That, and the tech library, can be enormously helpful...

Nice scoot. -Mine is a Plum '07 GT200... 8)

Thanks for the pointer Chazlee.

I went to the Tech Lib first to see addicted's method, and once I figured that out with the panel alarm plug, I didn't search anymore. I searched more just now and saw your original reference to this mod you posted just one month ago! What a coincidence. Both of us with GT200's even.

I guess searching also helps before you post, even if you aren't looking to "find" anything, just so you don't repeat stuff.

One thing I noticed in Boulderscoot's method is that in using the plug holes he did, he effectively wired two buzzers across both (left + right) of the turn signal lights at the same time. So when one signal is turned on (left), current actually flows thru the buzzer and down thru the other signal light(right) also. The electrical differences between the buzzer and the light bulb are what prevents this "second" turn signal from activating/shining, so it winds up working and a person won't have both lights blinking together. Since the buzzers have a polarity, he had to use two of them, wired back to back (red/black wire from each) to get the buzzing to work in both turn directions. Like he said, the way he wired it there isn't any way to get it to work with just one buzzer.

In addicted's original way in the Library, he saves the cost of one buzzer, but has to buy/use two diodes and do soldering and stuff like that. But this way does prevent the signal/buzzer activation current from traveling spuriously down the "off" turn signal totally.

It was interesting to me see this Two Buzzer design method to solve the same problem. For someone that doesn't want to do any soldering or having to worry about keeping the diode directions correct, Boulderscoots method is simpler, at the cost of just one additional buzzer.

So I guess now people can have a choice of which method they might want to use depending on their budget, or soldering skills.

Since my school training was in "solid state" engineering (transistors and diodes and stuff) I think I just got seduced by addicted's clever use of those diodes to solve the problem with just one buzzer. But that's just something that engineering geeks like me would find interesting.

Hi there, a big warm welcome to Modern Vespa! Great introductory post, not many people attempt a how to on a first post, excellent job.

I hope you continue to enjoy and love your Vespa as much as the rest of us love ours. Enjoy the forums and get involved in all the conversations. There is a lot to learn about our scooter along with lots of fun conversations too.

Yeah, I actually started using Addicted's way, even had the entire rear legshield box off until I discoverd Boulderscoots method... Not only is there no soldering, but you only have to unscrew the left top black compartment panel instead of the entire rear legshield! -Not a bad deal for only $7 more for the additional beeper, IMO... I also bought 'pulsing' RS beepers, so I get a real interesting (and sometines slightly differing) sound from them when I click on a turn signal now! (And after I removed the rear leg shield panel, I figured wot the hell, and went on to replace the horn with a louder one!)

I couldn't recommend this turn signal mod more! For me it's made quite a difference in the relaxation of my ride... I don't have to nervously remind myself (and then STILL forget!) to turn off that signal whenever I turn it on, and I don't have to take my eyes off the road anymore to see if the turn signal indicators on the dash are blinking or not! So it's increased my pleasure in riding quite a bit! 8)

Good luck with your GT200. IMO it's a great scoot, maybe even one of Vespa's best!

Yeah, EXACTLY my same feeling too.

What kind of new horn did you put it? Did you need to put in a separate relay?

I've been thinking of that as my next mod..and I've been reading and reading all the posts here about bigger, higher current horns and which ones need relays and which ones might not..but might push more current than expected thru the horn button if a relay isn't used.

But when researching the alarm plug wiring, I saw that some of the holes that we don't use for our turn buzzers CAN supply up to a 7.5 amp fused line just by itself, without powering any other internals. If I need to run a separate horn power wire to not push higher current thru the horn button, I can just use this other hole in the alarm plug rather than fishing another separare fused line all the way down thru the leg shield and back to the battery. That won't supply the 15 A needed by a Stebel Compact Nautilus, but it can supply some of the lesser current horns and not stress out the horn button at all if you use a relay.

What I would really like is to find out where I can buy the matching "male" part of the plug to fit that Vespa alarm plug/socket.. and then can wire all these kinds of mods separately outside the scoot and then just plug the entire assembly in. That would really be clean...

I looked for that plug too, but couldn't find one. If you do, let me know, okay? I put in the Fiamm Highway blaster. It's definitely not as loud as the Stebel, but it is better than the stocker and I didn't use a relay for it's 4.5 amps requirement...

Will do.

Now to just find one of those Highway Blasters around here.....

Thanks.

I did tochaman's mod yesterday on my GT200 and it works just fine. The only problem I had was understanding the diode part, but eventually I figured it out. (Two 12 volt diodes from Radio Shack soldered to the buzzer's red wire, forming a "Y" with the red wire, with each diode "color band" facing the red wire). I found that a 90 db buzzer was loud enough without being too loud. Now that I have it, I realize that it can get annoying while waiting at a light. I don't know if others can hear it or not yet. If they can't then no big deal I suppose.

Audible feedback on the turnsignals is a dream of mine. Mr. A and I are constantly pulling up next to each other at lights with one of us almost always telling the other, "Your blinker is on". Ugh.

Loved your first post, even the electrical parts which I know absoutely nothing about. I appreciate a job well done and one that looks pretty, too. I'm wondering if it can be done on my ET.

Good reading here this morning!

Actually the mod can be done on ANY scooter, if you follow the original instructions by addicted in the MV tech library. It just involves getting down into the actual wiring.. or at least the electrical pins on the turn signal lights themselves so you can attach the wires back to the diodes. (Also you can look at the earlier post/reminder from Chazlee referring to Boulderscoots method with two buzzers.) All of these will work if you can get to the wiring pins on the signals themselves to tap in to.

The thing about our GT200s (or GTSs) is that if we "borrow" the alarm plug..then we dont' have to digging into the panel or wiring for these access points. That made it easy for us.

I don't know specifically about an ET4 ( I barely know about my own GT200 at this point!).. but you should never ask a tech Geek a question like " I wonder if...." because he's likely going to go off and look for the answer...like I just did.

There is a workshop manual in the MV tech library on ET4's, and it had the electrical schematics in there. On the small electrical schematic for the turn signal wiring, it did NOT show any kind of extra "plug" for an alarm system or something like that that you might "borrow" to do this same easy wiring trick.

But.....

If I look closely at the huge/complex wiring schematic that is also in the manual.. there does appear to be a reference to some sneaky little two pin plug/connection, that seems to go ONLY to these left/right turn signal points. If this reallly exists as some kind of plug, then that is exaclty the kind of thing that could be used to wire in the bottom of the diodes in in this mod. This plug didn't look like it had a "ground" connection for the black buzzer lead..but since that is a ground..connecting the black buzzer lead instead to any point on the metal chassis/body...like a scew point or a bolt..would work fine.

So I don't know where this secret plug might be.. or even if it really exists at all. I don't even know if ET4's have the same kind of knee panel cover like the GT's do where you can sneak behind a portion of the front box panel without moving the entire front panel. Maybe you know..or some other curious ET4 scooterist has run across such a secret plug and wondered what is was.

If it can be found, then it's easy to figure out if it can work or not! You just buy a buzzer. Stick the red lead into one if the two holes and tie the black buzzer lead to some metal point on the chassis. Turn on the turn signal (quickly run away and seek cover......just kidding)...and if it beeps in one of the two turn signal positions, then you've found the National Treasure Plug. And you can use the 2 diode + 1 buzzer mod.

For folks that want to use TWO buzzers and NO diodes.. and avoid soldering .. then you can use Boulderscoot's back-to-back buzzer method...or an alternate way that I've since thought of.

Just take each of the red leads from each of the two buzzers...and stick them individually into the same holes in the plug that the ends of the two diodes are inserted into. Twist the black wires together and stick that into the hole in the plug where my black wire went. Now you have one buzzer for each side of the turn signal! Should work fine..no soldering..no fuss. Just costs an extra $6 buzzer..but these days that doesn't even fill our tanks with gas!

So If you/we/someone can find this two pin secret plug on the ET4.. we can probably try this mod out and see if it works.

Welcome aboard tochaman! Great first post!!
Just finished this mod last night. Turn signal beeper, and accessory power (cig. lighter) plug. I connect my battery tender to the battery through the lighter plug - clean and easy.

Nice clean job!

I bet your buzzer is PLENTY loud, pointing right at you out in the open like that.

Thanks; appreciate that!
The buzzer is a Radio Shack 273-068. A "relatively" quiet 80dB, but plenty loud enough to hear over ambient noise. I used to have the buzzer mounted behind the horn cover - could hear it well enough while stopped, but not so well or even not at all while moving - and that's when you really need it.
BTW, I'll be putting in some black finish screws to complete the look.
Plenty hot out there in Portland this week! I know the Columbia Gorge pretty well; Hood River is a second home for me.

I would love to try this when I get my Vespa. I don't have any electrical experience, though, so I hope you will be able for tech support Tochaman! I don't have lead solder for soldering irons. Is using a laser welder ok?

I'm not familiar with laser welding, but my first impression is that the temperature would be too high. Copper melts at a much lower temperature than steel (1985°F vs. 2500°F). Radio Shack has rosin-core solder at about $8 for an 8-oz spool, and a 25-watt iron for about $9. Actually, the only soldering I did on my mod was to tin the stripped wires to insert into the alarm connector sockets - all other joints are crimp terminals.

I'm an electronics dummy. Which diodes from radio shack are appropriate and what's this about direction? I'm going to drill a small hole in the access as the dB isn't sufficient for my deaf ears behind the panel.


Tom

Just about any of Radio Shack's silicon diodes would be more than enough for a piezo buzzer. I used the 1N4004. The diodes will pass 1A and a buzzer draws only about 10mA. When you install, remember: "Bands together."

Here's the parts list from addicted's original post now in the MV Technical library.

Parts Needed:
Radio Shack Piezo Buzzer, RS part # 273-080, $6.39
Radio Shack Diode 2-pk, RS part # 276-1101, $0.59


(Parts are slightly more expensive now)

The RS part number is there, the industry standard designation is a 1N4001 type diode.

Basic characteristic os a diode is that it allows current flow in only one direction. If you switch the + / - polarity on the diode leads.. it will then block current flow.

You tell the direction of the diode/current by looking at the markings on the body of the diode. There will always be a painted "stripe" encircling the body of the diode on one end, and just on one end. That is the "negative" (cathode) end. If you put the negative part of your voltage on this end and the positive on the non-striped end..then current will flow.

In this mod, you need to connect both the the leads from the striped ends of the two diodes together, along with the red lead from the buzzer, and form one junction. Then proceed as the mod shows for what to do with the two other individual leads from the diodes as well as the black wire from the buzzer.

One thing about a possible hole in the panel like you mentioned. The buzzer above, that I used, has mounting ears on it that could be used for mounting.. but they are on the back size of the buzzer. If you try to use these to mount your buzzer to your panel, with a hole cut in your panel, I think it will be the BACK of the buzzer that faces your panel hole. This will NOT be the direction of the sound coming out of the buzzer..so it may not work like you need. Cincinnati John's pics show a different type of buzzer ( I think) that mounts thru a full hole in the panel which makes it point in the correct direction toward the rider, and gives the max volume. He might be able to tell us what particular buzzer that was in his case. The diode stuff works the same with either buzzer.

You could also buy more than one buzzer and just hook them up together, all red wires connected together and all black wires connected together. But given the way sound volume works.. you probably need 10 buzzers...to make the sound appear TWICE as loud as with just one buzzer. Two buzzers will just get you just a slightly louder sound than using one.

Thanks! I used this buzzer and used velcro to attach the face to the back of the panel. A small hole in the panel gives me all the sound my bad ears need!! Thanks again for an easy method. Piezo signals for dummies!!

Most excellent!

Tom

This is a great mod.
I found it rather difficult in the beginning to be riding and making sure my turn signals where doing what they where supposed to.
I have an alarm system installed, but I just spliced the wires into the plugs, the only "downside" is that it now buzzes when I switch my alarm on or off. I used Velcro too to attach the buzzer to the scooter, once I have more experience I might remove it again.

Thanks for a great tip!

I just fitted this to my LXV, Ok, it is a little bit more expensive, but does come with all the wiring. It is quite clever as it does not start making a sound until your turn signls have flashed 10 times. It does also wire into your brake lights so that if you are at the lights for a while. All you do is tap the brakes and it resets its self!

http://www.audicator.com/audicator.htm or http://www.audicator-usa.com for our American cousins !

Update - I disconnected it after 8 days. It was annoying, but I think that the problem may be more in the quality of the piezo buzzer. Mine made a an ugly, sputtering sound. I will keep my ears open for a better sounding 90dB buzzer, but for now I am looking forward to silence!

Your one piezo buzzer/2 diode solution worked great! I have no, mind you, NO experience with soldering, but your instructions, pictures and tips were thorough enough for even me to follow. I am now the proud owner of an obnoxious, blinking 200GT!
Again, many thanks!
-David

Thanks for the different approach to attaching a buzzer to the turn signals. One crappy soldering job later I'm Blinking and Buzzing.

I've been meaning to make this modificatin for some time and finally got around to doing it today. Worked like a charm!

The only addition I made was to bend the last 3/16" or so of each diode's leads into a "U" and then mash the "U" closed with my pliers so they fit more shuggly in the female contacts inside the white housing.

Before I soldered the two leads from the diodes together with the red (positive) lead from the buzzer, I clipped off about 1/2" of the leads. I soldered one of the resulting pieces of stiff wire to the buzzer's black (negative) lead and then I bent the same "U" in the wire for a good fit in the contact. I also used heat shrink tubing on everything to neaten it up and prevent any chance of a short.

Everything in life should be so simple!

A big thanks,

Larry

On my list of things to do too.

As well as not sounding for a defined number of indicator flashes, some of the aftermarket systems can be muted (e.g. whilst queuing/waiting at lights) using the brake lever. Anyone come up with a way to do this without buying a factory kit?

Best,

Mark

Older post...but great to resurrect for those who want an audible turn signal buzzer. Did same with my GT200 and used a single buzzer with dual diodes. need to make sure if you solder that you don't apply too much heat that could damage the diode (you can use an alligator clip to pick up the heat prior to the diode).

Although the initial modification was done to remind me...it serves a a great way to warn pedestrians at a stop light that you are there and will be making a turn since I sound like a truck going in reverse. Irritates some of the other riders...but serves its' purpose.

I've just wired up a Turn signal buzzer on my ET2.

This is how i did it...

Went to Maplin Electronics (Electronics chain store in the UK) and got these.....

1 x 12 Buzzer - Code FK84F - Price £3.19 - 103 Decibels
2 x Diode - Code N79CA - Price £0.20 each

I'd already got some suitable wire and 3 scotchloks at home.


Located the buzzer in a suitable place (inside one of the top removable sections of the glovebox)

wired the red wire on the buzzer to the two diodes - the diodes have a stripe at one end - take the diode wire at this striped end and twist the two diodes together with the red wire - in effect making the redwire into two leads using the diodes

Connect lengths of suitable wire to the non striped ends of the diodes, therefore 2 leads, connect the wire at the other end to the coloured wire on the left indicator with a scotchlok, do the same with the other wire to the right indicator.

extend the black lead from the buzzer and connect it to an earth, i used the black cable on just one of the indicators, used another scothlok

Tidy all of the cables so they don't snag anywhere and use electrical tape to ensue no short circuits are made

When i use my indicators now the buzzer makes a very pleasant beep/click noise

Fab!!!!

.

Interestingly (and bafflingly enough) I've just done the exact same mod on my GT125 as the one I did on my ET2 (as above), but it has thrown up a weird quirk that I don't understand.

The right turn indicator beeps correctly at a constant rhythm, but the left one beeps in a pattern of 5 beeps then a pause, then two beeps, then a pause then.... and so on!!??

I don't understand why this happens.

So I swapped around the leads to the diodes just in case one of the diodes was bad, but no difference.

I'm wondering now if it flashed like this prior to the turn buzzer being fitted and that the buzzer has just drawn my attention to it?

If so is the fault a indicator relay problem maybe? (indeed if there is one fitted)

Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

Fabio

.

Some of us have paid good money to have our lights flash in that sort of a pattern. It sounds like it certainly could be a wonky relay. Is the light itself flashing 4, 2, etc. or is it just the buzzer?

I had the turn signal mod installed at a recent service ( also belt rollers shoes tires ). Its VERY loud .

Is it me or does the signal sound like " GEEk GEEK GEEK?

Seriously, if you listen it does sound like geek.

Yeah well everyone for blocks will know Im turning......

.

The buzzer buzzes in time with the flasher, I might disconnect the buzzer and see if the flasher does the wonky flashing on its own.

Fabio

.

My flasher flashes regularly, my buzzzer does not. I think it has something to do with the buzzer, that it has a delay until it starts buzzing... No idea, does not really worry me...

Btw it was the same on my older gts as well...

The difference in the right and left function is in the lights. The rate of flash is determined by the load. Or you could have a poor connection on the left side. With the buzzer out of the circuit observe the turn signals. Is the left still different than the right? If so check all the left side bulbs and sockets for corrossion. If okay look at the connection of the buzzer. Scotch locks are less than ideal. Solder the wires for best connection.

.

So...I took the buzzer out of the circuits and observed the flashing of the lights.

The RHS turn indicators flash normally, but the LHS are still flashing in the 5 flashes pause 2 flashes pause sequence???

The connections are good and un-corroded at the bulb/light contacts both front and rear, is there a way of checking the load with a multi-meter?

I've had a look at the wiring diagram and can't see a indicator flasher relay, so I'm guessing that the indicator flashes are controlled by a flasher unit that in the switch maybe? does anyone know where I should look.

Fabio

.

The flasher is in line with the keyed power. It feeds the turn signal switch. The switch goes directly out to the light bulbs, the indicator in the dash is seen as another bulb. You could check the resistance to ground at the alarm plug. Compare the value of the right and left sides with the turn signals off. Couls also have corrossion at a ground point on the left side. One cheap and easy thing I would do first is change all the turn signal bulbs to the correct listed units. You may have a intermittent element.

http://www.scootermanuals.us/manuals/Vespa/GTS125/GTS125%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf

I need to correct myself. The flasher is an internal part of the CDI. The wire on pin #1 feeds the turn signal switch. its color is Bl-Ne or Blue w/ Black trace. This would still not explain the difference on the left side. You could remove all the bulbs (except instrument cluster) reinstall the same position right & left one pair at a time and test the signals. Once you get the odd pattern you know where to correct. Good luck!