Modern Vespa

I know there's been a few discussions regarding service rates and intervals and I hope this post isnt too long or redundant.

I was very surprised today when I called the Vespa dealer to make an appointment for an oil change (They are booked for about week).
The 625 mile service was performed by the dealer for $150. The dealer told me it's over due for another $150 service. My 07 BV500 has about 2200 miles (purchased new March 2008).
The service schedule in the BV500 manual indicates, check oil level and brake lining every 1900 miles. 4000 miles for oil change, clean air filter, replace variator rollers and check various components.

I read the manual before buying and thought it would have at least the same maintenace costs if not lower than a standard motorcycle. I want to maintain the BV to last and comply with warranty requirements, but $150 every 3 months seems out of line.

I can change the engine oil , hub oil myself and do most of the 4K service check items later. (Not sure how difficult replacing the variator rollers maybe).

Any comments/suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

Note that the generic warranty books and specific owners manuals are now well out of date.

The 3000km (2000mile) 'service' is/was only a check. This interval is now 5000km (3000miles), and remains a check only - you can do it yourself (and should be checking at least once a week anyway). It has no bearing on warranty.

Main services were at 6000km (4000miles) - this is now superseded to be 10000km (6000miles) and now includes a belt change. Overall this reduces cost to the customer and practically eliminates unexpected belt failures.

These changes in service intervals applies to all injected engines.

Although one can do oil changes etc oneself, it will invalidate warranty if you don't have a dealer stamp the service book and add the details to the database. As the dealer service includes many other little details and the major importance of checking the ECU via the diagnostic tool (CO check etc) my advice is to get the dealer to do those 6000mile services at least while warranty is in force.

A full service normally takes about two hours to do properly, regardless what the 'book' says.

I was kind of shocked as well at the cost of the 625 mile service on my GTV 250...really, it is just an oil change! Furthermore the strict requirements of the warranty is a load of BS. Changing the oil in your new car doesn't void the warranty..and it shouldn't with a Vespa. But, alas, my experience with owning one thus far has been extremely negative and continues to be exponentially negative. I am writing another post about that and the very poor customer service from the dealer and Vespa. The scooter has been in the shop more than I have ridden it thus far.

I believe in California receipts are acceptable proof that warranty items were performed. The dealer did not stamp my book for the 625 service anyway.

Need to verify, but if you keep receipts and log the dates. Servicing your own vehicle should not void the warranty. I guess the main thing is whether the dealer and manufacturer operate ethically.

BTW, I started this post because many of us purchased scooters as an economical alternative to motorcycles or to save on commuter costs.
Forced service costs not disclosed upfront is misleading and overrides much of the $$ saved on fuel and purchase price.

I use my scooter mostly for recreation and have enjoyed riding it so far. I've owned 7 motorcyles over 30 years and except for a BMW, this could be the highest cost vehicle to maintain I've owned.

If Piaggio has official service interval requirements which differ from the book supplied to consumers, Piaggio should cover the additional cost.

Congress in 1975 enacted the federal Magnuson-Moss Act to regulate written consumer product warranties. Congress charged the Federal Trade Commission with creation of the specifics of the law. The FTC set down three rules under the Act: the Disclosure Rule, the Pre-Sale Availability Rule and the dispute Resolution Rule.

While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: "(c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service pro vided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if - (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest." (42 U.S.C. 2303(C))

In other words: Since Piaggio/Vespa does not include free maintenance during the warranty period, you can change your own oil and do your own servicing without voiding your warranty. However, if you have a failure, you may have to prove that you used oil that complies with the manufacturer's specifications. If you do your own mechanical servicing and you have a failure, you may have to prove competency for your ability to service the bike (such as valve adjustment, belt change, etc)

Piaggio has been extremely fair and flexible and pro consumer in our experience since the day we opened our shop in September 2006. I was in the Automobile industry 25 years prior to our Vespa shop and imho Piaggio far exceeds Automobile manufacturers, although one stand out is BMW NA (Automobile) for sure.

Best
SDG

It is far more than that. They have increased the service interval by 50%, there is less cost! I suspect the diagnostic tool triggers this section. It certainly does in the EU.

I'll probably do my own fluid changes about every 2k miles and go to a dealer for the more technical services per the manual. I havnt seen anything from Piaggio saying at 2k milles repeat the 625 mile service. Essentially that is what the dealer is requiring.

Thank you all for your comments.

IMHO, This is an excellent forum with some really helpful members.

<mantra>
There is no 2000 mile service. There never has been.
</mantra>
Any dealer who tells you differently is a lying theiving scumbag shyster.

I'm assuming this also pertains to valve clearance checks as well.

Dave

know there are other posts about service, but I am still confused.... My GTV is ready for its' 3000K mile service. I was told at the dealership that it includes a valve adjustment and will cost app. $500 This is contrary to what the service book states: 3000k should just be a fluid level check that will cost app. $100 (which is insane). The service manager insists that the valves need to be adjusted and belt changed. If this is so, then the total cost in service, will be app. $700 ($500 + $200-600 mile oil change)for 3K miles...which turns into a per 1000K cost of $233.35. This is completely insane. My S2000 and BMW don't cost this amount. I thought these scooters were supposed to save money and are easily maintainable? Not by my figures (yes, I am a bean counter on Wall Street). If I need to have this done every 3K and an oil change every other..then this will be a costly vehicle to keep. I would do it myself, but somehow the Vespa gods would know and invalidate my warranty.

So, does anyone know what is done and at what intervals for service? I am going to head uptown and visit Piaggio later today and maybe I can get the facts. I don't think there has to be this amount of confusion...

Thanks

[quote="jimc"] It is far more than that.

[quote="jimc"] It is far more than that.

I have to agree with phlspguy...Out of curiosity, what is performed? My receipt states an oil change and hub oil change as well as checking the fluid levels.That is it...period..and I asked for a VERY detailed receipt, and that is what I got...so, you seem more knowledgeable about the service aspect than even the dealership (they don't seem to have a clue) so what service(s) are performed? My 3K service is coming up-see post above.

I have never seen so much ambiguity when it comes to service as I have seen with Piaggio. No one seems to know the right answers or service intervals.

Isn't this just all part of the fun of the Vespa/Piaggio experience we paid extra for?

In all seriousness though, I've made an effortto befriend my local mechanic (and this IS at a dealership) and we can now talk pretty freely about what I want done on the bike and whether it is worth it at that time and I can hang about in the garage whilst they work. This isn't to say that is a "brilliant customer relations move" put forth by piaggio, nor will every mechanic be so kind, but I have much more peace of mind these days at my services. At any rate, maybe hang aroudn the door and talk to them about what is being/going to be done?

Most mechanics, like professors, are lonely people jk

It appears as I suspected, dealers are creating their own service schedules. Probably more often at Vespa/Piaggio only dealers.

If I follow my local dealers recommendation service cost per 1000 miles during the 1st 2,000 miles is about $150.

Based on Tarmac1's post the 4,000 mile service could be $500. 10% of the purchase price the 1st year for service. I only have a 12 month warranty, so after that I'm on my own.

So Jim how do you really feel ?

When we went to tech training (twice) for 4 days we were told for So Cal hot and fast riding they created what would be a more optimal service schedule for Vespa/Piaggio which does indeed insert one extra service in the first 10K miles.

Our schedule recommended from Piaggio is 625 first service, 2K, 4K, 6K (perfect time for it to show up for belt/roller consideration) then 8K, 10K.

Clients can follow the book schedule, we tell them what tech services recommends for our area and all of our scoots (past the occasional newbie gremlin) are running just fine and everybody is very happy with the performance of their scooter. I don't think this makes for shysters....

Best,
David
VTO

Question for SDG...

If we follow the owners manual and something fails (ie. fuel pump), will Piaggio honor the warranty?

BTW, I was told the 2k service includes checking bolts for proper torque. I can understand more frequent oil changes, but I didnt buy an old Triumph or Harley.

quote="SDG"] So Jim how do you really feel ?

When we went to tech training (twice) for 4 days we were told for So Cal hot and fast riding they created what would be a more optimal service schedule for Vespa/Piaggio which does indeed insert one extra service in the first 10K miles.

Our schedule recommended from Piaggio is 625 first service, 2K, 4K, 6K (perfect time for it to show up for belt/roller consideration) then 8K, 10K.

Clients can follow the book schedule, we tell them what tech services recommends for our area and all of our scoots (past the occasional newbie gremlin) are running just fine and everybody is very happy with the performance of their scooter. I don't think this makes for shysters....

Best,
David
VTO[/quote]

OK now I am even MORE confused..I glean that for So Cal the service intervals are different? My service manual states service @ 600, 3000, 6000 etc...not 2K, 4K, 6K etc... I am on the east coast. It seems that the service schedule/warranty issues create a very hot debate. I know I was nver told about the very high cost of ownership of these. The dealer was very sketchy about hte whole thing. My local newspaper ran a story about scooters and didn't include the "hidden" costs of owning one. I am calling a reporter friend today who works for the paper and telling him about this

Tarrmac, I was thinking about doing the same.

There has been quite a few stories regarding increased sales and how much you can save on fuel costs. Anyone who's owned a motorcycle knows service costs can be higher than cars. Those new to the motorized 2-wheel world are often surprised.

I need to elevate my legs and wrap myself in a blanket because I am going into shock... After doing all my calculations, I find that I am not really saving any money by buying/using the scooter...in fact I am paying MORE to use it than the car. Where are the savings? I got a friend of a friend sort of deal that works for the Journal (Wall St.) I am going to try and catch up to him and maybe he can point me in the right direction to get a story. I have realized that the fuel savings is a myth compared to the high cost of ownership and the Stalin-like requirements of the warranty. They know they got you! Also, I have also prepared a letter to the FTC and the Consumer Protection Bureau..signed by 6 Piaggio/Vespa owners here at GS. They were also in for a coronary once I explained everything to them.

I always believed the consumer has freedom to choose...Piaggio takes away that freedom... TO quote a line from a famous movie (para) "Is this Russia...nah, this isn't Russia"

Piaggio USA may not be plugged into the rest of the network[1] - perhaps it's true that the hotter conditions of CA may call for a different take on service - but it's hot in Italy too. When was this talk from Piaggio? If before April this year then they might well be talking about 4000 mile services - that was the norm - but for injected engines I can assure you the service interval is now 6000 miles.

I'd be interested to know why the hotter conditions might be thought to indicate more frequent services.

A service every 2000 miles would mean one a month for me, that's as bad as the X9 250 SL (Honda engine) which had no oil filter, only a strainer. That one certainly is still 2000 miles.

[1] It seems Piaggio keep different areas of the world separated when it comes to discussing common problems. One reason why this forum is so valuable.

Absolutely Piaggio will honor the warranty !!

Best,

SDG

The official "Manuale Stazione Di Servizio" (service manual) for the GTS that is published by Piaggio states that there is an oil/filter change at 1000 km (625 miles) and at 5000km, the only things that it mentions is:
1. Engine oil level: check/top up
2. Brake pads: condition and wear check: THAT'S ALL!

The next service interval in the manual is at 10,000km (approx. 6k miles).

I don't see why the service requirements would be any different for another model, liquid cooled, Piaggio or Vespa scooter.

All of these newly added service is nothing more than a way to get money out of the customer's pocket and they're simply going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg if they don't stop trying to screw the very customer's who are creating their new found success in America.

Me...........I'm simply going to follow the schedule in the official manual and if I have a problem, it will be Piaggio's problem: not mine.

+1

Thank Deity someone else can read.

It was exactly that change in the MP3 and GTS 250ie manuals that prompted the original call to Piaggio UK. They confirmed that all injected models could now be considered to have a 6000 mile service interval.

Note however that this is for warranty only. Individual dealers can demand you give a pint of blood every 100 miles, and there's eff-all Piaggio can do about that. What we can do is point out these goat-felchers for what they are and avoid them.

Without mentioning names on here of course, but most readers of this will get the drift...

Checked engine and hub oils today. Engine oil level was good, but the hub oil level was way tooo low.

Since I dont know if the hub oil was not filled correctly during the 625 mile service or it just evaporates from use. I decided to drain and replace myself. A good excuse to check out another dealer to purchase hub oil, engine oil and filter. Also, get their take on service intervals. This dealer said 2k is the next service, but added that valve adjustment is required.

Purchased what I needed and when the time comes I'll decide which shop to use...at least I have a choice.

If I owned a shop I would give customers an option. (The owners manual says....but we recommend,,,,) There's nothing wrong with selling value added services, but do it with integrity.