Modern Vespa

Check this out.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1819594_1819592_1819583,00.html

Where can I get this $4 gas you speak of? I'm paying $4.79 per gallon.

we should just all go back to riding horses, we could improve that list even more.

i don't know why there's all this talk of lowering gas prices, $5 gas is a good thing!

Eh. I have no desire to live in a city and my job does not allow me to work from home. Woe is me.

I am curious though. A few years ago I read a comparison of a Honda Cub and a racing bicycle. In the end if you factored in the amount of energy that was used to produce the Powerbars the bicyclist was eating the Honda was both faster and more fuel efficient. Wasn't exactly super scientific but it was a good read.

I wonder if the same would be true for horses?

"Because It's Small" by Peter Egan, included in Leanings, a great read.

I realize the comparison was for bicycle racers which typically burn calories much faster and stay on the bike much longer, but the average person does not need to consume Powerbars to ride to and from work or to run their errands by bicycle . In fact, unless you are riding more than 1.5 hours or so, you're better off not taking in any extra food. Your muscles store enough glycogen (the stuff that muscles use for short-term energy) for about 1.5 hours of riding. If you ride for 1.5 hours and don't eat anything extra, you've burnt around 600 - 1200 calories (depending on how hard you're riding). Taking on food just negates some of that calorie burning.

Speaking of reading, I read the receipt I received just a moment ago. I filled my tank for 1,59 Euro/litre. One US gallon = 3,79 litres.

Btw, nice sig. You'll find many other hilarious quotes from Matti Nykänen over here: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Matti_Nyk%C3%A4nen

.......Yeah i told a few friends last June they needed to go ahead and get their's before the market conditions changed , and they could stay ahead of the curve in demand, price, delay..............................they didn't believe me again ..............I thought surely they would after they didn't take my advice on the "Vanguard Funds" in 1984 ........."It's good to be the King" .......all the way to the Bank

godoggo ~

-

Yeah, what a character, lol. There's something funny about athletes (Yogi Berra and Casey Stengel come to mind but there are plenty of others), some kind of brain/mouth disconnect that allows hysterical things to come out.

Sounds like some of the Scott Adams quotes from 'inDUHviduals'

I lived in Sweden for a couple years (200-2002). When we moved back to the states, we always insisted on "just enough to meet my needs." I love that philosophy and am hopeful others can learn to enjoy it too. (Actually, I've always had that philosophy, only more so now.) Saving is fun!
Now, if we can only get a real electric train network developed in this country!!

It will never happen. Sadly our rail system is more screwed up then our airline system.

Perhaps it might help the environment..? I'm trying to think "green" about expensive gas, as I do have grandchildren I care about... But also being on a fixed low income of pension and SS, it does get a bit scary when all these *&$^%* prices rise, and my income doesn't!!

Latest thing I heard: GM may be going into bankruptcy???
And with all the other big car co.'s losing $$ so fast, we may be forced into making some big changes here in the USA pretty soon!

I find it hard to feel sorry for the big shot CEO's in the oil and auto industries who out of greed have been selling us the wrong kind of fuel hogging vehicles for too many years now! They knew fuel shortages and global warming was a rapidly approaching serious problem, and yet they for the most part did little or nothing about it! But it's the workers in these industries, the everyday factory hands and drivers and machine operators who are going to get laid off if big auto goes under, I feel sorry for...

I'll tell you a wonderful thing about $4+ gas....I'm LAID OFF THE ENTIRE SUMMER! I don't go back to work until Sept. 22nd! I work for Ford, and thus I collect 85% of my pay (unemployment+ what Ford calls SUB pay) for my layoff....wife has a good job (she's an RN) so I'm sitting pretty, with the whole summer to look forward to!

I don't think the CEO's of GM or Ford were forcing anyone to buy Suburbans and F-150's. They were just building cars that they thought people wanted to buy. If they didn't make them, people would have just bought Tundras, Titans or (damn, can't think of another "T" one) . . other big trucks instead.

No, the fault of the American addiction to gas lies solely on the shoulders of the people.

Yep - because the airline lobby make USD30 BILLION a year in subsidy, and yet AMTRAK score only $3 billion.

Things are changing - some of the US rail industry mags are printing some good things about spending on rail in the States. The key air routes are also ideal for high speed rail, just when an idea is proposed, the air (and road) lobbyists do their best to shoot down anything that will take away their slice of the TAXPAYER funded cake !!

Sadly your class ones are anti-passenger, which does not help.

And our Gummitts here are too stupid to realise;
A) the need. and
B) the opportunities the investments would create.

Any extra effort requires extra energy and thus extra food. On a bike I need around 500 calories to cover 25km... about a liter of gas on the vespa. Thats a couple of power bars(really expensive calories!), or a 35c packet of noodles. Gas is cheaper than power bars(snickers bars probably break even) but noodles FTW. 2$ worth of noodles = 150km
And if you're using corn to make your biogas...

But who were they making the $$$$ for selling their products:

Mum and Dad investors who bought their shares and drooled as the price rose!

Welcome joining us at IKEA.

I don't think the article I mentioned broke it down into the cost of a Powerbar vs. cost of gas. I think they figured the cyclist spend x extra calories to ride and that many calories of food would represent y gallons of gas to harvest, process and transport. I'm pretty sure they were trying to keep it gas vs. gas.

and people wonder why the us auto industry is in trouble

Jag har en hel del Ikea möbler hemma. Skulle kunna tänka mig jobba för er. Kunde det vara en fördel att tala svenska och arbeta för Ikea i USA? Brukade köra hela vägen till Toronto för att köpa på Ikea innan man öppnade i Chicago och sen Detroit.

I'm always amazed and disappointed that people (including congressmen) don't realize we subsidize the trucking industry and automobile travel by building and maintaining roads, and then make the railroads build their own and force Amtrak to rent rails from them. And then we say "the passenger rail industry needs to pay for itself because this is a capitalist economy." OK, maybe. But they should at least be honest and admit that we subsidize OTHER, more costly (per passenger) forms of transportation.

The US rail industry has been getting federal support since the mid-1800's. I always thought it was over-regulation, unions and a lack of national standardization for railway operations that crippled the US rail industry.

Shame too as I like trains and hate flying.

Unless you're significantly under-weight, you don't need the extra calories. You're body should have enough stored in fat. I'm 1.8m, 63.9K's--very, very slim. I ride 1.5 hours everyday, usually at the high end of my aerobic range which means I'm burning around 1200 calories per ride. I rarely take on any extra food to replace those calories. Only when I do an extended ride of 1.5 hours or more do I eat extra food.

But you're right; Powerbars offer pretty low $-to-energy ratio. Bicycle Magazine did a study a few years back. It compared the energy you acquired from a Powerbar to the energy you acquire from a Snickers bar by measuring the amount of sugar in the blood for several hours after the food was eaten. It turns out the Snickers bar lasted just as long and produced no less severe of a sugar drop than the Powerbar. Snickers bars cost around 1/3 the cost of a Powerbar. They sure are hard to carry on a hot day in my back pocket though!

What does SUB stand for?

+1 Ditto. I'm not a big lover of the SUV, but I do believe people ought to be free to buy what they want.

I was wondering the same thing.

Uh, me being laid off is BECAUSE the industry is in trouble..not the CAUSE of it. I'm just taking lemons and making lemonade. Why be sad about it...I can't change it, so make the best of it. I'm not management, I don't make the decisions.

Oh, SUB...that's Supplemental pay, it comes seperately from the State unemployment...the SUB is what Ford actually pays me when I'm laid off.

Define "federal support"?

Your rail industry COMPLAINS about "over-regulation", but has a poor safety record compared to similar operations elsewhere in the world.The key issue is it is seen as "private enterprise", and thus resists any regulation.

The unions probably make it safer - there is lots of research which says a unionised work place is safer than an un-unionised workplace. THey also pay better.

The US is the most organised when it comes to "Standard" operating equipment - most railways are 1435mm in gauge, use leased rollingstock, and proprietory motive power.

Yes, there is some government support for rail in the US, but generally it has been private capital that has funded the US railways, not gummit cash, and certainly no-where near the spending on roads and aviation in the last 60 years.

Gotta give the road and air lobbies a hand ( ), they have been very effective in conning your countrymen and women to pour huge amounts of taxpayer money into their very inefficient industries.

A la "And then we say "the passenger rail industry needs to pay for itself because this is a capitalist economy." (really the thing road and air say - they don't wanna give up their peice of cake, despite the significant social benefits rail can bring).

To be fair, though, the big Class Ones in the states were glad to piss off passengers. an old saying in the railways is "if it breaths, it is not profitable".

TIme and wisdom are changing!

You are absolutely right, my Australian friend...a Unionized workplace is safer, and pays better, than non union. I am Union, and proud to say so.

LOL, what with all this layoff time I have, I'm thinking of taking a trip to beautifu Australia..It's a place I've always wanted to visit.

I even have a Vespa.

Pack your bags

I'm trying to work it out with the wife...If I can, I'll do it.

Doesn't the consumer bear some responsibility here? Weren't we the ones who purchased these large vehicles while leaving the econoboxes on the dealer lot? The car companies simply delivered what would sell in our marketplace. It makes no sense that they would have thumbed their noses at fuel shortage issues. They're in the business to sell cars. If the public wanted small econoboxes, they would have made econoboxes instead of SUVs, and pickup trucks.

Now that fuel prices have increased, it's motivating people to value fuel economy over comfort, safety and the other issues that supported buying large vehicles.

C

So glad someone got this back on topic. The business about Australian trains and labor unions was driving me up the wall.

They did make me stop and think about trains a bit and I came to these startling conclusions:

The USA has far more many miles of track than Australia does.

The American people chose to fly instead of using trains on long trips. Despite this, Amtrak provides passenger service to more destination than even exist in Australia.

The breadth of our railway system is such that it would not cost effective to electrify it. The bottom line is that the railway services in the 2 countries is like comparing apples to oranges.

As to labor unions, these are precisely what inhibits the US auto industry. The cost to finance the benefits for union workers is such that the big 3 will eventually have to move all of their plants to Canada and Mexico or face extinction. Foreign brands built in the states do not have the union impediment and thus can prosper.

The funniest bumper sticker I ever saw was on a pick-up truck. "Proud to be union", it said. Another sticker said "Buy American." The irony was that the truck in question was a Nissan -- which is neither union built nor American.

Yes, the public were forced to buy SUVs and Pick-ups. There were no alternatives!

Was actually referring to American railroads! They actually didn't "choose to fly". The rise of the auto gave the US railroads an excuse to ditch their pax services. Aviation took off post war, and over a longer distance is faster. The subsidies governments provide to airlines make them cheaper, so people "choose" for cost and convenience - subsided by taxes.

There are many similarities between the US and Australian Rail operators (noting I did not compare them) THe class ones in the US are doing reasonably well, but the regional shortlines that feed them are cash starved, worn out, and at risk of abandonment. A number of local governments have bought into the shortlines as they see the benefits of rail far outweighing the social, economic and environmental costs of cars and trucks.

There has never been a mention of total electrification, I don't think I have mentioned it at all. For some corridors, generally where air travel time is three hours or so, high-speed rail (diesel or electric) is cost effective.

Like the US, Electrification for pax services between Perth and Brisbane would not be economic. THis would be like electrifying LA to Washington DC. the Legacy cost is USD1600 per car (or thereabouts).

So the problem is your big three cannot negotiate with Unions!

Thats pretty sad, as two of them here are pretty good at screwing our Gummitt for subsidies, yet most of the legacy costs they face in the US are paid for by our tax-payer funded health and social services.

nothing wrong with a fair days pay for a fair days (safe) work.

Anyway - isn't it part of the "market forces" and "free economy" that is held dear to some hearts?

The point is, going back to the original topic, that high gas prices are affecting life, and the byproduct of burning gas is changing our world forever. AS a planet, we all need to do what is reasonable, and use what are reasonable amounts of resources.

Hence the effect is, do we wait to be "changed" in our behaviours, or do we take action now so we can control the changes?