Modern Vespa

when a problem comes along
you must zip it
before the hose rubs too long
you must zip it
when your fix is going wrong
you must zip it

now zip it
against the frame
shape it up
get straight
go forward
move ahead
try to detect it
it's not too late
to zip it
zip it good

when a good hose lets you down
you must zip it
you will never live it down
unless you zip it
no one gets away
until they zip it

i say zip it
zip it good
i say zip it
zip it good

Thats pretty funny John!
I couldn't seem to get the zip tie threaded through
( have I mention being inept?...) and noted also that the radiator
housing seems to just be plastic-so wondered how much
pressure should be put on it in any case.
So, as is my nature, improvised a new makeshift fix.
Placed a 3M dual lock (very sticky glue on both sides-
tough plastic stuff in the middle) between.
We will see how that goes.

Checked the new Fuoco last night and its touching. There was a small bit of chaffeing going on too. I jambed a flat plastic keyring fob between them. Its the sort that has a window in it for a name so it will probably stay in there until a better fix is found. Weird addition to the Fuoco but its all I could find fast and it works.
Also fitted a Vistacruise and I will fit the Autocom intercom this evening if I can tear myself off the bike for long enough.
Big thanks to whoever spotted this issue.

The easiest way that I have found to get my hands in there to put on the zip ties, is to go over to a curb. Put on wheel up and leave the other on the ground; level, and lock. This will give you plenty of room to get in and do your stuff.

I threw on a couple of zip ties but the heat stretched them out and the hose is rubbing again. As that happened to anyone else?

Many good post suggest something around the hose, then zip-tie.
I got my zip-tie from NASA, no problems yet
Use heavy duty zip-tie (Black) and/or exhaust wrap tape similar to this:
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/bgcq_exhaust_wrap.php


UPDATE July 13th: I still have the original single black zip-tie (that I applied) holding radiator back from motor.
It hasn't failed, the hose hasn't misshapened or developed crease/indent as a result.
Everything is hunky-dory...oki-doki and alrighty-then!

Hi Folks;

Since I've just read this I wanted to post my own experiences and bump this in case newer owners hadn't seen this - and maybe to give a "heads up" to any dealers that read here.

I immediately checked my brand new 500, and thought that there was no protection, as the hose already had been "indented" (but it doesn't appear to have lost any material) with only 15 miles on it.

After double-checking and looking around I found that mine did actually have the factory fix like Pireldi had noted above, but with one big problem...

They wrapped the zip tie and flexible PVC sleeve (it's not actually shrink tubing) around BOTH hoses and the frame pipe, so that the result was that the zip tie had simply slid back along the hoses and frame back behind the plastic shroud.

I ended up snipping the tie and replacing it, but this time feeding it around the lower hose only, and not around the upper hose (which comes from the right side). The tie won't slide back now, and keeps it off the fan.

One other thing I did was to take two small pieces of vinyl hose (slit longways) and slide them in between the radiator bracket and the very ends of the hoses where they go into the radiator. I'd like to tape them in, but I think it would require removing the hoses to do so. The fact that they're right up against a "sharp edged" bracket and the bolts made me nervous.

My thought right now from looking at some of the photos is that in some cases (like mine) the hoses may be too long at the engine end, and as a result the curves at the radiator end get smooshed up tighter against the fan motor and other parts more than they should be. The plastic shroud around the hoses behind the radiator has "flares" molded in to let the hoses float a bit more, but there's a huge gap that goes unutilized on mine. Pireldi's pics look more like what I think it should look like.

My nearest dealer is *190 miles* away, so the dealers won't see much of me, but I'm thinking that sometime in the next year, while it's under warranty, I'll either have the hoses replaced or fixed/shortened so that they aren't bunched up like that.

Just my 2 cents...

Anyway, I thought you should know that the "factory fix" isn't always fixed.

Zang

Yep, mine has it. (500) Taking her in tommorrow to get her right turn signal fixed. Will have them look at this too.

Friggn turn signals seem really easy to break.

tiny..

Turn signals are very easy to put back on as well. Must have done mine about 20 times...

Thanks guys for the heads up.

It looks like in some cases (as it is with mine) there is a sleeve around the hose to help protect it, but that's not going to be adequate; as you might be able to tell from the indention the fan housing has created on the hard plastic. Here's my quick/temporary fix. I'll probably end up putting a rubber sleeve around the hose then re-tying it with the cable tie or just let it rest against the housing like one of the previous pics. Not sure I like the cable tie supporting the hose itself.

cable ties and velcro - great contributions to mankind

I started to fix mine that way, but was a little concern at the plastic part that is being looped around- wasn't convinced it was up to the strain I was putting on it.
I put a simple washer in the area affected, (on my wife's bike) and I just checked it today and it was still in place doing its job. I think I will do that on my own bike ( my makeshift fix on mine is not doing as well).
Keep an eye on it for stressing that plastic housing, and try a washer if all else fails! Best of luck!

This plastic sleeve that some people are saying is a factory fix, should not just leave it at that. I for one don't think it is a factory fix. The sleeve is very thin and will rub through very quickly. Make every attempt to put a hard plastic sleeve, or thick hosing around it. If you put a thicker hose around it, that is not a cure all, as anything that is rubber will eventually rub through. Check it every once in a while if you are using rubber to protect rubber.

Took her in today and there is a factory fix he looked it up.....Just what you all have been doing with zip ties...

Yah, jmc, the tech explained to me how to fix my light.

tiny...

Rob :
Another fix is slice a 3/4"PVC coupling lengthwise then zip tie one above and one below the cut. Inside the coupling is a raised bead of PVC that slots into the cut on the water line. The added benefit is that at anytime you wish you can rotate the coupling around to a new location.

I picked up my 500 yesterday, and I have plenty of clearance as well. Looks like that's been fixed.

Just logged in this morning to see what's new and found this thread about the rubbing issue on the coolant hose. Figured this wouldn't be a big deal on my MP3 as I only have about 300 miles, until I got to the post from John Scholz! Went out and checked ... indeed a significant amount of wear-through on the hose ... yow! Put a zip tie on it to pull it back, but will have the dealer do a bit more permanent solution shortly. Since day one, the horn has not worked, so have to get that done soon. My MP3 500 has a bit of a soft backfire, and after reading another discussion, figure this should be looked at as well. Took it in to Sportique about a week after I bought it, and they told me this was perfectly normal ... but I still would like to see if this can be remedied.

Thanks for all the info you share here ... it has been invaluable as I get used to my new scooter ... lovin' it!

RECALL.

I can't believe what I am reading here. Most of you guys paid over 10 grands of your hard-earned money for this scooter, and you're using zip-ties, hoses, and other DIY methods to remedy what is clearly a mfr.'s problem. Take it back to the dealers, and demand to have it fixed for free, plus an apology. What the heck are you afraid of anyway. Je-e-sus Christ!?

Well purleease... If the dealer fix is a cable-tie, surely it's far easier to DIY rather than take up your time and his? It's a ten-second fix.

Let me see. So everytime some problem like this, or perhaps one even more critical occurs, your collective answer is to "zip it, and zip it good"? Now would an owner of a barely 6-month old Mercedes Benz have to do the same, I wonder? Don't forget duct tape, that's an old standby, too.

If owners of mp3's can't effect some real changes by having Piaggio correct an obvious design flaw like this one; then perhaps you're not moving forward, but instead, backward as a group.

There're dealers lurking around here, and I just want to hear them say,"Sure, not a problem. Bring it in and we will fix it." But, no, everyone seems plenty happy to resort to some two-bit way to solve (or laugh at, or blame oneself for) this problem. I don't find it funny at all.

You big-spenders deserve much more decent treatment or response from dealers/and Piaggio for something like this, that's all I am saying. Lexus customers don't need zip-ties, OK? Pleeeeaze.

Good point Sushiman. Thanks for the reality check on this one.

I don't see why your rambling about deserving better treatment or response from dealers when we are the ones not taking it our bike there in the first place. I would much rather DIM than haul my ass 37 miles for a 10 second fix. I for one would rather do everything myself if I could. Things I can't do I take it in (thus the critical does not take a zip tie, anybody knows that). I like to work with my hands, I like to accomplish fixes on my own. Maybe not everybody feels the same about it as I do, but the reason I can afford one of these anyways is because of my hard work and reliance on myself and not someone else. Who used ducktape? Don't exagerate........pleeeeeeeese!

No one is questioning your or my stance on self-reliance, Hepworth; actually the reason why we're all here is because we are all a bit of a Handy-Dan one way or anther. But if it's a mfg issue or a design flaw that the dealers should fix according to warranty, then they ought to do it. By that I mean something better than just wrapping a zip-tie around the hose.

If we only try to solve mfg issues on our end and not bring it to the attention of Piaggio/Dealers; then they would never take it seriously, and no subsequent improvement would be made from their end.

BTW, Matt C, have you heard from Piaggio? What's their plan of action on this one?

It seems like half of us are having the hose issue and the other is not. I don't know if I would consider it a design flaw but an installer flaw, so definetly a mfg issue. Those with out the problem have plenty of space because of the way the hoses were fitted. That guy on the assembly line did it right. The other guy just threw them in there. But you are right, Piaggio needs to know about these issues so they can take care of it at the factory. I see where you are coming from and you have valid points. Damn those spoiled Lexus owners'. 8)

That's the point, Piaggio Italy are aware of the potential problem and new machines shouldn't suffer from it. Any bike up until then had a chance of the problem, the solution is to tie the hose out of the way. DIY or spend time taking it to the dealer, your choice.

But tell your dealer by all means, I've told about 5 dealers around here! It should be a PDI check item now anyway.

Thanks for the heads up i just got my 2009 MP3 and i've rode maybe a week on it so far and i already see wear on the hose sleeve. On top of that my tilt lock alarm keeps going off after i park over night.

2009. What month was your mp3 500 produced? Sorry to hear the problems were not fixed, even for the 2009 model.

BTW, were you affected by Hurricane Gustav?

not the plastic cover. I did mine and it's perfect no crease. Was going to become an issue. every 500 owner should check there bike.

Ok. One more trip under the scooter, took the twist tie off the plastic,
put it around the tube. It maybe is squeezing some other hose or hopefully
just electrical line in the process. There is a lot a stuff going on in there.
Just a note, my wifes bike is still good with just a simple washer stuck between the hose and housing. Will do hers the "right' way soon.

Thanks to all of you that share information on this site. I bought a MP3 500 from a first owner (1000 miles) and would not have even thought to look for an issue like this. My hose was worn/indented.

I used some zip ties, first putting a slice of an old radiator hose around the Piaggio hose, so that the zip ties would not eat into the Piaggio hose.

One potential hint: I had a hard time moving the hose away initially to see the worn part, as the hose was inflexible and hard to pull up and away from the fan housing unit. However, after riding to and back from the hardware store, the hose had warmed up from the radiator fluids and was then very easy to move and pull away from the fan housing. So, if anyone has trouble moving the hose to look for this problem, a quick trip on the scooter will make the hose warm and flexible to move and then pull back and zip up.

Since Aug 21st I have rotated the PVC coulping and lo & behold there was no cutting action on the PVC, however the PVC was deformed. That being noted I question: How long before we will see any heat deformation on the zip ties? So I removed 1/3rd of a 3/4" copper coulper, leaving 2/3rds to wrap around the PVC. I'm hoping to disapate the heat over a larger area. And where is that heat coming from? Well I would venture to say both the fan motor and the hose. Having done this one month ago I see no signs of any further progression. The zip ties were removed and replaced with slainless steel hose bands.

It's not heat that makes the cut in the hose, it's mechanical wear through vibration. Separate the sharp edge from the softer material - no wear.

True, and heat speeds up the cutting.

True - but this isn't great heat we're talking about, a maximum of 105C. And I suspect a softer hose might give way more easily rather than press so hard against the sharp fan motor edge, so it's debatable. My guess (and that is all it is) is that the wear will be about the same cold or hot, it's just a different balance of conditions. But wear it will, unless some action is taken for those bikes that have the hose not so well positioned.

When I went to the hardware store to buy zip-ties, there were two types -- black ones and clear ones. Looking a little closer, I found that the black ones were heat resistant to 185 degrees. That brought me back to my days working in a gas station -- within the engine compartment of all cars are many zip-ties. They have to be heat resistant to handle the engine and radiator heat.

So, try to find heat resistant ties -- they may sell them at the auto parts store, the hardware store (mine had them) or you can find them online. My experience was I needed ones at least 10 inches long. i bought 8 inch ones and they were not long enough to go around the hose and back up around the plastic framing.

Black ones are UV resistant too.

Luckily I work in a Data Center and have 1000's of tie-raps to chose from. I used a nice wide one that Dell ships us with ever server. Plus they are re-usable so I can pull it off if I need to and put back the same one.

Wayne B

Thanks for the heads up on the hose issue. I took delivery of a 2009 MP3 500 two weeks ago. I have 200 miles thus far. The date of manufacture was 07/08. I did a visual and touch check of the hose on the left side of the bike and found approximately a quarter inch clearance between the upper end of the hose and the fan frame.

The only place the hose is barely touching is the lower edge of the cutout on plastic shroud that protects that part of the bike from the wheel housing.

So this bike seems to be OK, but I will inspect it on a monthly basis.

This is a great forum!

Rob, we truly appreciate your help.
I own a 2009 MP3 500. I found that mine had the same hose issue like yours. It had definate signs of wear and melting. I've only got 400 miles on the bike.

Here's what I did:
1) I took a piece of cardboard and cut it into a square and folded it in half.
2) Then I cut some thick foil and sandwiched it inside the cardboard. I found that cutting up a disposable foil pan works well.
3) Next I wrapped the cardboard/foil sandwich in a heat resistent tape. NOT duct tape. This tape can be found at your local hardware store. It has a shiny silver appearence (like aluminium) and is used by heating and air conditioning contractors. When you go to the hardware store, ask for "heat tape" as it's commonly called.
4) I wedged it just like you did.
5) I wraped it with a zip tie.

Thanks to this great forum and participants I've discovered my '09 500 with only 250 miles has fallen victim to the terrible chafed hose epidemic.

Fixed it up with a black(heat resistant) plastic tie. Did this by tieing both rad. hoses together, instead of using the adjacent frame tube. Hopefully, this will work for the long term, or my 1st. scheduled visit to the shop at 600 miles.

Cheers........R

Is there a recall on this problem? It should be covered on the warranty. Diane

No recall - it's not that serious an issue, and apparently was rapidly corrected at the factory. It should be looked for and corrected at normal service time by any competent dealer.