Modern Vespa

Hello All, Just your average lurker here, found the forums after visiting a Vespa dealer in my area and wanting to find more information then what the little brochure could give me. I originally was looking at a Vespa GTS 250 but then I saw the MP3 in the front of their shop, couldn't sit on it since it was sold, but the Saleswoman explained everything to me she could, and what she wasn't sure on the Service manager helped her with. I fell in Love with the MP3. My only issue is my mother... She's an Orthopaedic RN. She is extremely against me getting anything without 4 wheels and doors, citing all the injuries she has taken care of at work due to drivers in the area not seeing people on motorcycles or scooters on the road. I'm already looking for MSF courses so I can get my endorsement for my license and into financing options. Any advice or sites I can show her that riding on a scooter isn't signing your own death warrant?

I know this is odd, but I'm 29, living at home by choice after living in Orlando for 5 yrs. I was asked to come home by my mother to help care for my dad who had Quad bypass surgery and only one lung due to cancer found when I was 15. Also, I assist with my 96 yr old grandmother so mom can work a 12hr day and rest when she gets home instead of worrying about them. so... thanks for any and all advice!

I don't know what to say. Essentially, 1/2 the time you are effectively invisible to the drivers that are not paying attention. To drive a bike, any bike, you have to make it your personal mission NOT to get run over. That means in any situation where where a car COULD hit you, you have to assume that they will try and take steps to negate or avoid the hit.

1) Never stay in a drivers blind spot for anytime longer than you need to move thru that spot.
2) when passing, give yourself as much room as the road will allow, so if (when!) the car does something dangerous, you have more time to react.
3) Assume they don't see you. Act accordingly.
4) Always wear helmet, gloves and good protective shoes.
5) if you can affort it, get a good riding jacket for additional protection. Then good abrasion proof riding pants.
6) Be insured for as much as you can afford, not just the minimum allowed. In the event that you do get hit, you won't be an additional financial burden on your family.
7) Be Visible. Mohawks, bright clothes, etc...

I'm sure others will chime in. There are several good books on riding safety and accident prevention measures riders can take. But really its an attitude. You're not a paranoid if they really are out to get you.

Riding a bike or a scooter is inherently more dangerous than driving a car. I do not think you will find a website out there that will say otherwise. Your only option is to convince your mother you are aware of the risks and have taken all the appropriate precautions (training, safety gear, defensive riding etc). This still will not be enough but at the end of the day you have to way up the risks and make your own choice.

Read up on other peoples accidents (mostly on sportbike forums). If you can read their stories, look at the pictures, and still come away wanting to ride, then you will be the better rider for it.

For what it is worth (probably not much as this is complete speculation on my part), I suspect a large proportion of the patients your mother sees are the so called "squids". As an incomer from the UK, it was kind of surprising to see the number of idiot riders out here without any kind of protective gear. Since you are drawn to the MP3 I think it is safe you are not in that category

I believe that the largest proportion of motorcycle/scooter accident victims fall in the less than 1 year experience category. With the price of gas at record highs many many car drivers are switching and all too many see the MP3 parked on the sales lot with the tilt-lock engaged and think that looks like something I can ride without any training.

Get some training, watch out for the other guy and enjoy the ride.

My wife is a emergency room nurse in the only level one trauma center in Tucson, AZ. After 2 kids and 23 years of marriage, she finally said yes. Now we ride 2-up and it great fun to see the look on her co-workers faces when they find out for the first time she is riding a motorcycle?!?!

Make no mistake.. two thing will hurt you or kill you on a motorcycle/scooter.

arrogance and inattentiveness..

Take the Motorcycle safety Foundation classes to get your license. if you have your endorsement already, take a refresher course. Show your family that you are committed to ride safely.

And of course a $1,000,000.00 term life insurance policy does not hurt either.

What ever it takes... do it. Ride Safe

2 perspectives: Risk vs. Reward

1. Nurses do not lie, it is not an urban myth. There are traffic accidents everyday, on a scooter, you have even less protection.
Still, many never become a statistic, by luck or defensive driving.
And we don't want you on a scooter with all this on your mind.

2. We sometimes make decisions for ourselves or for others. We may all have family, or people that love us or will be affected by our injury or death.
But is the value of being happy on a scooter, the same value as you are to your family?

I am not going to tell you that it is up to you; you resigned that when you asked for advice. I am going to tell you that it would be very selfish of you to get the scooter,
at such a risk to your health, and such a hardship on your family. Just as your mother sacrifices her time to be a provider, you can sacrifice your whim, to be a good son and grandson.
If you still want a 2008 MP3 500 in ten years, it will cost you even less.

I leave you with two words: Air Bags.

p.s. Your grandmother is worried you spend too much time on the computer, go to bed.


Ciao 8)

I agree with everything posted so far.

A couple of weeks ago I saw a motorcycle parked outside a hospital emergency room entrance.

The license plate read ER DOC2

It really is an individual decision.

Thanks, coming from you, that says alot! (serious)
I didn't mean to, but he asked for it.

1. Why is your MP3 out of commission?
(and you still read the posts!)

2. Please keep your camera phone ready if you see ER DOC2 again.
It's corny, but a License plate forum is a good distraction.

As a mother of three grown up boys I understand where your mother is coming from - but - you have your own life to live.

When my boys were growing up I worried over them taking drugs etc - yes, they tried them, but I did not preach at them and they sorted themselves out. They went off backpacking to foreign parts - I worried about them until they were on home ground.

Parents worry - it is part of the job description.

You are the only one who can make the decision - good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Joyce is right ... worrying is in the Parents Manual. My son is close to 40 yrs old and I STILL worry about him.

On the flip side, my son and niece - both late 30s - are giving me grief over my MP3. "Ma, you'll get yourself friggin' killed on that thing!" and "U did NOT get a scooter! Oh greaaaat! Now we have to worry about that, too!"

This is the way I see it - I intend to enjoy my life. When its my time to go, I go, whether that's in my truck, on my MP3, or as a pedestrian, whatever.

Make your decision based on what you want to do. You are old enough. You are always going to hear how dangerous this and that is.

If you choose to get the MP3 make it a priority to be a responsible, defensive and VISIBLE driver.

EDIT: You have several people depending on you. Your confidence level sounds somewhat on the low side in making this decision - I say this: "When in doubt, don't. Wait until you are SURE."

"Top of the world Ma!"

I change my advice kid, get the scooter, everyone has their own life to live!

We all have an acceptable level of risk that we're willing to take in our lives. EVERYTHING has risk. Hell you can overdose on water fer chrissake. We all have to find our own comfort level and live with the consequences. I kinda like the extra danger of it all. But when I was younger fun for me involved strapping myself to something (skis, kayak, mountain bike) and throwing myself off of a mountain. Your mileage may vary

I think finding that comfort level should involve your loved ones as they too will be affected by your actions.

That being said, I've been riding for well over 15 years and have not been involved in any incident involving a car. Sure there's lots of close calls, but no contact yet. I just assume I'm invisible AND they're trying to kill me. It's the one mutually exclusive belief I'm willing to comfortably hold

Aw, shucks, thanks

Well said, schlagle.

My MP3 is out of commission permanently after being hit by a car on March 30. Unfortunately, I was riding it at the time. The bike was totaled; I came out somewhat better, though still limping around on a badly broken foot. I've written about the crash elsewhere on MV.

I saw the ER DOC2 plate (on a Harley, I think) during one of my follow-up visits to the hospital.

Interestingly, I have found a surprisingly large number of ER and Orthopedic docs and male nurses and technicians who are currently, or have been, riders. Some of them have shared their crash stories with me.

I am planning on getting another MP3 (probably a 400, unless I come across a killer deal on another 250) in the Fall. My foot will have healed sufficiently and maybe the price will be down.

dig_az... you said:

"This is the way I see it - I intend to enjoy my life. When its my time to go, I go, whether that's in my truck, on my MP3, or as a pedestrian, whatever. "

Dig, I could not agree more. To personify things a little.. If the grim reaper comes around and my name is on that sickle, I gonna go willingly. However, if the name on the sickle is "to whom it may concern," I gonna go kicking and screaming.....

Just like the song Tim McGraw sang.. I gonna liveevery day like I was dying....

Yea, House MD hasn't hurt sales either

Is it Freudian, you call it a "killer" deal?

You gotta ride with paranoia; people are trying to kill you!

Thanks for sharing, and don't wait for your foot to heal, no foot shifting or foot break on the MP3

Ciao 8)

Sooo ... after all the cogitating, opining, pearls-of-wisdom tossing, factoids, and life-experience droppings ... no response from Nyght. Wonder if we scared the poor lad off.

That's Funny, he has 1 comment, turned off the lights, closed the door, and we're still yakking.

Oh well, I never liked him. He won't be missed. He was a real slob. Did you ever watch him eat... he dropped enough food to.........

Great posts from everyone! Take the MSF class, and read Proficient Motorcycling: Mastering the Ride. Something interesting for me is that the thought of riding makes me uncomfortable. When I wake up in the morning I think "am I crazy riding a scooter"? My mother is a worry wart and she is going crazy. She wants to pay for my gas, so I will drive my suburban instead of the scooter...but here is the interesting thing: for me I am never nervous while on the scooter riding. I guess it is partly because I am in control. I can slow down, or speed up or pull over or take another road. I have only been riding for a week. One driver cut me off and pulled out on the street across 2 lanes and would have ran right into me. I saw her coming and noticed that she did not look my way when she pulled out. I had a car behind me and choose to speed up and get in from of the car pulling into my lane. From the look on her face she did not know I was there. I really was not nervous. I had lots of choices. I could have even gone on the other side of the road because it was clear of cars. Of course had this been during a time of high traffic I may have been nervous. I think it helps to ride like you are a little ADHD. Kind of looking and thinking constantly...and it is fun.


John

Heh, no you didn't scare me off, been busy at work to the point of coming home and just collapsing on my bed.

I definitely enjoy all the support and comments I've been seeing, so far I'm still leaning towards the MP3, just waiting now for the next available MSF course, and if my boss will give me the time off needed to attend. Who knows...


Again, thanks for all the comments and words of wisdom from everyone!

Hey! There ya are! Glad to see you back!

We have a varied tribe of MP3'ers here so you'll get a good spread of info and experience ... toss in a little sarcasm and humor, and this turns out to be the BEST forum you could ask for!

Keep us informed on what's happening. You'll love the MSF course ... it's a blast and you learn a lot.

We should write a strongly worded letter to his Mother about his manners ... or lack, thereof. She'd REALLY be on his case, then! I mean, ya can't take him anywhere, fer chrissakes.

Hi Nyght:
I extremely recommend the MSF Class. I am a newbie and had never ride a motorcycle in my life. I took the class this past weekend (Jul 5/6) and I was surprise how heavy those suckers are (250cc, cruiser) and how it feels when breaking, curving, swearving and stoping. The class teach you how to make decisions and how the bike reacts to your decicions. I was thinking that riding a motorcycle was like riding a bicycle and to my surprise is not. It takes a lot of control and awareness!

I have not bought my MP3 yet but I will. Take the class!

Life is hard and fast, you have a lot of responsabilties, I have none, I've had mine a few days, the only one in Bulgaria, only managed a few quick blasts, as I am busy but it is certainly something I'll enjoy when I get time.
On those few blasts someone pulled out of a field in front of me, heart stopper, a big black Karakachan was lying in the shade of a tree in the middle of my side of the road, near miss, some young goats panicked at the sound of the exhaust, I now have complete trust in the brakes, I have lost the arse end twice by being too aggressive on the throttle when ramping it up out of a tight turn, just my inexperience with it.
It may well killl me, but what's the alternative, watching telly?
You have to weigh up what you owe yourself and what you owe others, above all ride safe and remember....everyone in a car is out to kill someone on 2/3 wheels...ciao

Alright, back again after visiting my local dealer once more, where they had 2 MP3 250s in stock. Talked about MSF courses, Financing, and stories she had heard from other drivers. She said that one of the owners came in a few weeks back for his first checkup on the MP3, and showed her a speeding ticket he had received... 93mph on a 250? I didn't think it was possible, but she swears that's what happened. We then started to talk about what I would be needing, either a 250 or 400.. I don't really like the design of the 500 that much, but that's just me. I was told the 250 has more space under the seat for storage then the 400, I thought they were the same. The choice I guess I have now, is Engine Size, or storage space...

And I promised Mom on her day off I would take her up there so she could see what I'm going to pick up once I finish my MSF course and get Financing squared away.

Alright! Great news on the dealership visit and glad to hear you're taking your Mom to show her the goods. You may also want to find a couple-few youtube videos to show her how it rides. There's plenty there to see.

I'm not overly fond of the 500 looks, either. When I went to get my MP3, I wanted a 400 but only 250s were available so I took one of those. As for engine size, others in the forum state that if you plan on doing mostly in-town commute and the occasional highway ride, then the 250 is best. If you intend to do lots of highway, then get the 400 for the greater power. I figure I'll use the 250 for a year then trade up to a 400 when they are more available (hopefully).

Glad to hear you're taking the MSF course; it's well worth the time and cost. Keep us informed. We're all waiting for that post that says you GOT ONE!

The 500 in person looks incredible, and is perfect for in-the-city use. I so far haven't found myself limited by the smaller storage space, but it is big enough for my helmet and a few groceries as well, which surprised me as the capacity was always so downplayed.

I picked up a 250 MP3 two weeks ago. It's been almost 21 years since I've ridden a motorcycle. I signed up for the safety class which I will take next month.

A little history.....

When my wife and I got married, 21 years ago, I was "in between" bikes. Any rider with some years will understand being in between bikes. We got married rather quickly; six weeks from our first date.

At the time she was working at the VA hospital in Seattle, WA, in the spinal cord division. The only way you could see her was if you were at least a paraplegic. She is, by the way, a wonderful therapist.

You know how when you come home and have a funny story that happened at work? Or somebody said something funny? More often than not the patient, (and I would always ask what happened to him) was involved in a motorcycle accident.

What struck me at the time was that a great many, the majority of these accidents were when the bike was not moving.

She would say, "He was at the curb and lost his balance and the bike fell on him." Or, "his girlfriend got on the bike and they fell over."

Another one, "He rolled up to a stop sign and his tire went over the street grate and he lost his balance."

Most of these guy were riding Harleys and they're big and heavy. An MP3 is pretty heavy too, and I read a number of times on this forum how the owner lost balance and the bike tipped over.

Yes, statistically, a great many accidents are cars that don't see you. Being alert can tip the odds. But at least with my wife's experience, a significant amount of accidents happen when you are stopped.

By the way, describing the MP3 as a "scooter" and not a motorcycle won the battle for me. The two front wheels was the clincher.

I've got a black MP3 250 and I hope that when the 500 comes she won't
notice.

Safe riding to you all.

Bob

Your chances of dying while riding a motorcycle or scooter are still very very low. To put it into perspective, the probability of dying while on a bike is 0.000000334 per passenger mile, while for cars it's 0.000000013. The point being is that 16 times a really small number is still a really small number... so if you drive, like, 3 million miles, you're dead meat for sure.

Check out "The Hurt Report" http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html Some surprising findings but mostly verifies what would seem like common sense.

Doh!

Thanks for the good thoughts, John.

"Killer" deal was indeed a Freudian slip (and I should know, I'm a psychotherapist) which I noticed after I wrote it. I decided to leave it in anyway.

Freudian slip: When you're thinking one thing but you say a mother.

Unfortunately I do need to wait some more before I can ride again. The foot (after 15 weeks) is still too swollen to fit into a boot (or shoe for that matter) and I am only just getting off crutches. Don't ever shatter your heel if you can possibly avoid it!

I don't think that most people are trying to kill us, but I'm convinced that stupidity and carelessness have killed a lot more people than intent ever has. So I agree that we need to ride as if they're out to get us and structure the situation so as to deny them the opportunity.

Nyght,

I understand where your Mom is coming from. Those of us who work in the medical field can see some pretty scary things. I am a home health physical therapist and last Summer it seemed that I was seeing more motorcycle accident victims than usual. I started to wonder if God was trying to send me some kind of message. I am still riding, using my MP3 for work and enjoying every minute of it.

I found these interesting factoids in an MC magazine:

Chances of dying:
- From cancer: 1 in 7
- From motor vehicle accident: 1 in 84
- Hit by car while walking: 1 in 626
- From a motorcycle accident: 1 in 1020

(stats from National Geographic Magazine)

I wonder what the numbers would be if it were "Chances of being disabled" instead of "dying"?

Careful how one interprets these statistics. One can prove most anything by quoting selected statistics. Correct analysis would do something like compare fatalities per amount of time performing the task. An old friend used to say "Figures don't lie, but liars figure." I am a new rider but 100% of my fellow workers who do or have ridden motorcycles have experienced injuries serious enough to put them off work for a period of time. Most admit to aggeressive riding and excessive speed. One had a deer hit him in the side and was over a month just getting out of a hospital and a year later is still in therapy. A man in central Georgia was killed last week hitting a deer on a motorcycle. Hitting a deer with a car is a trip to a body shop, but seldom significant injury to the occupants of the car.

I love my MP3 and will keep riding it, 1800 miles in 7 weeks. This is my first motorcycle experience. I am signed up for the first available MSF class and am working through "Profecient Motorcycling" The truth is I am more likely to be injured riding a motorcycle than walking or riding in a car. The best way to better the odds is to get the training and experience and use them to avoid trouble.

I think most people in this forum are intelligent enough to take what I posted with a grain of salt and to know its yet one more set of stats from yet one more source without me having to point it out to them (which would be rather insulting).

Those stats stood on their own in a motorcycle magazine ... I didn't just "quote selected statistics." One set of stats doesn't equal proof and I didn't say it was accurate. It was a piece of information to share.

And your statement on "Truth is, I am more likely ..." Pot calling the kettle black. The point is, if you want to nitpick about details, then you can take pretty much any post in this forum and yank it apart.

Lighten up.

Sorry, I did not intend to nit pick. I may be over sensitive as at work I frequently have to correct how others present statistics drawing incorrect conclusions.

Please accept my apology.

I absolutely accept your apology and I now understand your reasoning behind your comments. Thank you.