Modern Vespa

Hi Everyone,
So I pulled a total rookie mistake today. I put cheap gas in my GTS just a few minutes ago.

I am thinking I'll just have to ride it out - or should I go through the hassle of siphoning, etc?

It's just $7.50 or worth of fuel - but I am concerned I am going to wreck the system in some way.

Has anyone else done this? And if so, what can I expect...

And all this after I had my 1st service on Friday - argh.

Thanks for the help,

Sette

It'll run just fine. No worries.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I *swear* I'm a good Vespa owner...

Thanks again,

Sette

it'll be fine

I've done that when nothing else was avail. Run it down to half tank and fill up with premium.

If you can remove at least part of it for the lawnmower and then replace with high octane, you might feel better. If not, drive it out. You don't have any choice, really. If you drive it out, don't wait to be near empty before filling up with high octane. bring it down to half a tank and then top with 91 or 93. Repeat and you should be running a fairly high mix and can then fuel it as you normally do.

post deleted by Salima

The GTS has an ECU, it can cope for one tankful of slightly reduced octane. In many parts of the world that's what it runs on anyway, regardless of what the manual says. It's an arse-covering caveat by Piaggio - like many of their strictures it can be taken with a pinch of salt according to circumstances. As long as it isn't continuously fuelled with peanut butter it'll be fine.

OP, just refill when it's worth doing so with your normal fuel.

The computer for the fuel injection on the GTS will compensate for the lower octane gasoline that you put in. The poster who said to run it approx. halfway down and then fill it with premium is correct. This is the best solution.

*Edit: I see that jimc posted at the exact same time that I did with almost the exact same info.

Sorry Jim but I have nothing but respect for most of your opinions...that is until you spout off about something which you know NOTHING about. Cheap gas in the US is low octane oxygenated which you, by your own admission have NO experience with. STFU on this one!

I'm an officer from the High Octane Control Board I'm absolutely positive your bike will blow up. Your only recourse now is to have it shipped directly to me for further inspection and testing.

Please note all bikes sent to me become my property and will not be returned even if sufficient postage is attached.

Dave

(Seriously, just run it and have fun. No damage will be done)

edited to add: If the octane rating was such a big deal they would have to have safe guards to ensure you didn't put the wrong fuel in, something like the difference between gas and diesel nozzels.

I've never bought into using premium gas. My Audi A4 has performed fine on regular gas (in Cali) for 5 years and 75k miles, and I've ridden 300 miles on my GTS on regular gas as well. I can post some research, like Dr. Bill Whatenberg, a well known scientist at UC Berkeley and Lawrence Livermore labs, who has stated there is very little difference in the grades in modern engines.

I actually agree with you. If it was my ride, I would steal the turkey baster and the barf bucket (spaghetti pot) from the kitchen and suck it dry if it took an hour. Then I would pour in the required fuel. However, as obvious an answer as sucking it out is, the OP chose to ask alternatives. My suggestion of removing at least part of it (hopefully a big part) would result in an improved fuel supply that could be improved gradually.

Of course, I KNEW that there would be some who would come forth saying not to worry, no problem, you'll be fine, because they burn cat piss in their scooters to save a few dimes and they know more than Piaggio about the octane requirements of their engine.

As far as the ECU compensating, without a knock sensor, it CAN'T compensate because it has no way of knowing if there is detonation.

Let the flames begin.

Do post some links on the research-- It sounds like your own first-hand experiments have gone well enough!

--Deborah

the op is not running multiple tanks. presumably this is the only tank which is not going to ruin the engine.

Can anyone be sure? Suppose the engine had detonation for most of the tank...........300 miles maybe?

Yeah, that one cigarette or that first snort or that one drink isn't going to hurt anyone.

Putting a $7000+ scooter at risk for $7 worth of gas? I wouldn't.

Please tell me this is a joke
Crap!
Run the blasted scooter it will be fine.

Exactly. There will have been some higher-grade fuel left in the tank, and maybe some from the pipe at the filling-station (if a shared pipe, we don't have those).

These are not highly tuned racing engines. They have wide tolerances and can cope with small anomalies like this without fuss.

I accidently did the same to my 2007 BV 250 late one night. I didn't realize what I had done till I read the receipt. I checked with my dealer/service man and he stated that it wouldn't hurt the scooter. I ran the tank to the normal level that I fill up at and filled it up with premium. Not only haven't had any problems but since that time increased my mpg from 55 to 60 up to 60 to 65. It's been that way since. I've actually gotten on tank to get 69.5 mpg since that time. However the choice remains up to you.

seriously, you are attempting to compare using 87 octane w/ drugs/alcohol. this type of illogical fear mongering is indicative of desperation. detonation is not realistic and the scoot can only go about 150 miles on a tank

It's not like you put diesel fuel into your Vespa, get over it...

I use 87 octane gas all the time. I tried high octane just for the #$%% of it and it made no difference.
tdilover

If paranoia sets in, buy some octane booster at you local auto parts store.

But don't put the whole bottle in.

I put regular in both the scoot and my little car (it's a Smart). I will put premium in about every 3 fill ups, but that's about it.

forgot to add -- I keep records of how many gallons I put in and calculate the mpg. Regular or premium - the mileage remains the same.

Just wondering why we have to run premium here is the U.S. elsewhere they can run regular?

No, seriously I am not attempting to compare low octane fuel to drugs or alcohol, but rather the mindset of it can't hurt anything. Often times, risk taking results in no consequences. But why take the risk if you can avoid it? Why argue with the builder of the bike?

I am far from desperate and detonation is highly probable in a high compression engine running low octane fuel. Why take the chance?

The 300 was a typo. It should have been 200. I get close to that.

Fuels are refined to different standards throughout the world. It's even more pronounced when it comes to diesel fuel. One reason why we don't see many diesels in North America is our fuel is extremely 'dirty' compared to Europe etc. It's not so much that we won't embrace diesels it's the fact that the fuel can't burn clean enough for Euro spec engines.

Dave

+1 (I've done this before when a gas station was out of Premium, and I was miles from nowhere. The GT200 ran fine.)

Your premium is our 'regular'. It's still labelled 'premium' here though, which is our marketing-speak for 'cheap'. It is 95 RON.

[snorts beer all over monitor]
I love funny people.

---
Good thread, too. I dug the back and forth and the good info.

given the number of people that have responded that they have used low octane fuel w/o any harmful effects evidences that the probability of isolated use having a harmful effect on the engine is low. i am not advocating using low octane but the op has already filled the tank w/ it. consequently, the risk of harm is out weighed by the cost of siphoning out the fuel w/ a turkey baster. the decision is a logical outcome of risk analysis & is far from you presumed knee jerk drug/alcohol analogy.

OMG! I've just discovered my precious 95 RON is in fact only 94.65 RON, and I'm led to believe by this forum this will result in DETONATION! I'm going to get the neighbourhood evacuated and throw a match at the scoot, it isn't safe FFS.

Mild or occasional detonation can occur in almost any engine and usually cause no harm. But prolonged or heavy detonation can be very damaging.

If you're worried, just take it easy for half a tank and then fill up with a higher octane gasoline.

Take it easy on hills, and accelerate a bit slower - don't stress the engine.

The ill effects of burning a too-low octane fuel are cumulative. One tank is no big deal, some people burn that grade all the time. Your head gasket, piston, rings, spark plug and rod bearings should all be fine.

(I stole part of this post... I really don't talk like this... )

The whole point is that 87 octane (RON+MON)/2 will not result in detonation in a GTS engine. Regardless of how it is composed, whether ethanol or heavy fuel oil - the overall burn characteristics are designated as that '87 octane'. It is not duff enough juice to cause any problem whatsoever in the short term, and probably not in the medium or even long term.

It's a non-problem.

Jim, how do you know? Why would Vespa not say burn 87 in the GTS?

The same reason Audi and other high performing cars do, it's corporate CYA, as in cover your ass. I used 87 octane in CA even though my manual said to use 92. It's been fine for 5 yrs, no knocking, and I averaged 15K miles per yr. until I got the scooter. The poor car is filthy sitting alone in the driveway for a month, so I took her for a wash today.

here's a link re: octane discussion from the scientist I mentioned above, and reference from the US Federal Trade Commission.

http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=356654&PT=PERSONALITIES

Do they, though? Not all octane is created equal.

Europe uses the Research Octane Number, or RON, which is a higher number than the US method which is (RON+MON)/2, inherently a lower number. So if the manual says 90 "octane," but was published in Europe, it could just be that 87 (R+M)/2 octane, which is 91-92 RON, would work just fine.

Plus, if you pay any attention at all to the feel and sound of your engine, you'll notice if you get serious detonation on a single cylinder.

Detonation is a possibility but it takes time to build up enough deposits to start it. I would run it and not worry. If you are in doubt you can always buy a (Georgia Credit Card) at Walmart for under 5 bucks.

If it worries you then buy some octane booster and pour some into your tank,
I've used Octane booster in the past to get the speed up on the expressway.

Dave

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, Low Test Fuel, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson
US journalist (1939 - 2005)

I really would not worry about it. Best thing is to go for a ride and burn half of it off right away. Then fill with the High Test stuff. The sooner you do this the sooner you can get on with your life.
Peace - Drew