Modern Vespa

I've practiced the technique, but have a question, when pushing right to go right (or push left to go left), do you push "down" on the grip, or "out, straightening your arm, or combination of both down and out? I push down and don't feel much of a turn, maybe I need better curve to practice.

thanks

It's more out than down. It's more like the thought of extending that arm.

thanks, that's what I thought (and felt) but need to practice on better curves vs. simple parking lot to get the real feel and hang of it.

A parking lot isn't going to work. Steering switches from non-counter to counter at 10 - 15 MPH. If this is really new to you, be careful when you're at speed; 20 MPH or greater. The slightest push will cause a dramatic turn.

It is whatever it needs to be to turn your handlebars. That's what you want to achieve. The push is only a means to an end.

Of course that really depends on the lot. I have a huge lot near me that allows for higher speed moves, and it's empty all the time. But she was saying that she needs to move out of the lot and on to the street.

Just try to find a more secluded place to do it, and don't start with harsh curves. Learn how it works first. You'll love the feel of it once you do it.

edited for gender clarity.

thanks again. I've practiced in the parking lot at the DMV, which is empty on the weekends so I can do about 20 mph, but the lot is short so I can't get a real turn in.

However, I ride everyday to and from train station in the east bay hills in Oakland during the week, and many other suburbs on the weekends.

I already have put on 250 miles (legal permit in daytime, but not freeway) but I felt I was "over" thinking the countersteering vs. just doing it (and again trying to overcome habits from my long distance cycling days). I certainly appreciate the advice and feedback.

btw, Milo is my cat who wants to ride my scooter. I'm a chick vs. dude.

FYI: A good video on countersteering

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc

Kevin

That's the key. You know it's there, you know how to do it so just relax and ride and let your instincts take care of the rest. The same principles work on bicycles (You just do it far more often on powered cycles due to increased speed) so it's already ingrained into your sub-conscience.

The push is only out. If you put your scooter on the center stand and push down on the handlebars nothing will happen. If you push forward the handlebars will rotate. Rotation of the handlebars is what's needed to initiate counter steer. If you push down on the handle bars when the scooter is in motion you can initiate lean. Counter steering literally means to steer counter to the direction of travel. If you want to turn left you steer your tire to the right and vice versa.

Here is a flat track racer in the classic exaggerated counter steering pose they take. This is exactly what you want to achieve in a very mild way.

This question makes me think you are a prime candidate for the MSF course.





Dave

Nice find Kevin!

What I have noticed with the counter steer, is when the handle bar is pushed away, the bike automatically tends to lean in that direction, and the turn starts to happen.

That is the idea.

Yeah, the video showed it quite well.

Those dirt-track steering techniques are pretty confusing to someone who's trying to apply countersteer on the road. What you see the track bike doing is more of a steering offset *after* the turn had been initiated. The offset is pretty significant on the dirt, when the rear tire has a tendency to kick out to the side. It is maintained throughout the turn as long as the rear tire's is kicked out to the side. It has nothing to do with the countersteer that is used to *initiate* a turn. On road, the rear tire exhibits only imperceptible slide, and you really never have to deal with steering input offsets.

The video that was linked above really is the best explanation I've seen anyone give online to date.

Thanks, Dave, that's why I signed up and paid $250 for the MSF class vs. going to the DMV to get the M class license.

I take the riding responsibility seriously. I simply over thought the countersteering term on semantics vs. doing what comes natural, like how I rode my bicycle riding across the US, with 40 lbs of gear going 50 mph down the Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, Yosemite. etc, while managing not to get killed by cagers or logging trucks.

+1! 8)

Exactly.

The countersteer initiates the lean.

The lean initiates the turn.

NOW I get what it is.... that utube video helped explain it waaaaaaay more than people trying to explain it to me via the written word... Whew! I already do that pretty well.... probably from my childhood years being a daredevil on a bicycle! I don't think I'd be able to explain it to someone else either. I just DO it...

The video helped me a lot when I first saw it, too. Same deal for me--been doing it for years but didn't realize that's what "countersteering" is.

Kevin