Modern Vespa

I am using my GTS 250 for my riding test this weekend. The first riding day went well, and I was glad I had my own scooter.

Next weekend they will be doing the slow maneuvers including the dreaded figure 8 in a 20X 40 box. The coaches said i generally counterbalancing and using the "friction zone" works well. I reminded them that I have no "friction zone since I do not have a clutch. I asked about using the rear brake and throttle as ell as the counterbalance, and they both said they know nothing about scooters, nor the best way yo handle the really slow speed and figure 8 maneuvers.

I would appreciate any suggestions prior to my 2nd riding day/test next weekend. I am encouraged that they said they have about a 95% passing rate overall. the written test was unbelievably easy, and in fact everyone passed. I was embarrassed that I got one wrong, but it truly was a poorly worded question with two right answers.

I've always meant to go back and attempt the inside-the-box figure 8 on my scooter on an empty parking lot since I took the MSF class with their 250cc Honda Nighthawk. I haven't done it yet, but I've done some ridiculously tight U-turns on my scooter without putting a foot down, so I'm 100% positive you can do it on your 250 w/o issue.

The key for me on the big(ger) bike was to just throw my head *way* over my shoulder to look well through the turn, carry enough speed into the 1st and 2nd U's, and be confident in my ability to negotiate it w/o a problem. Some of my classmates clearly thought "slower is better," but from the wobbles I saw from some of them, it obviously wasn't. Don't fly through it, but don't crawl, either.

If it's any consolation to you, a woman in my class put her foot down during that portion of the exam, and she still passed. She was by far the weakest in the class.

You CAN do it.

if you ride straight through the box you can only lose 8 points. that is the least point exposure you will have on the entire test.

for some people, riding straight through the box was safer then risking automatic fail by falling.

so basically, even putting your foot down is not a big deal in the figure 8 skill test.

so I guess what I am trying to say is, if you can stop, swerve and turn good, the figure 8 is not going to cause you not to pass...so don't sweat it.

I read here on MV one time that just hitting the throttle a bit on then off is a good way to get through the tight turns. Like pulsing on and off with the throttle. On my BRC we used first gear and controlled the speed with the clutch going in and out. I think on a scoot the throttle could be used the same way. Good luck!

I did the first day on my ET4 and the second day (test day) on my GTS250.

I used throttle control in the figure 8 with no problems on the GTS250.

You will be OK on your GTS250

BTW I aced it with zero points.

We have the identical test here in NZ and they provide one automatic scooter for those who want to use it. The instructor told me about the rear brake trick and it works really well. A little more throttle avoids that start-stop jerking and the brake helps dampen the speed. Try it - you'll like it.

Good luck.

I'm starting my MSF course in CA on the 31st and I was wondering something. I want to use my own scooter simply to feel more comfortable on my own bike but I was wondering if you were required to learn the manual shifting part of the class to pass? Anyone in CA use their automatic scooter during the course?

Yes, you can use your own scooter for either the motorcycle safety course and the DMV test. As far as the motorcycle safety course you need to check with the company to be sure and of course I'm sure your scooter must meet the normal safety requirements (mirrors, horn, insurance, etc.). Some (maybe most, I don't know) will even provide a motor scooter for you. My brother just took his MSC in Santa Clara and they provided him with a Yamaha Vino 125 because the battery on his Honda Elite 80 failed the morning of the course, had to be jump started and wouldn't hold enough of a charge to start on its own. Best of luck.

I'll try not to be vulgar.

What is this portion of the test for? Oh...that's right, when I go to the grocery, I have to do a figure 8 to get out of my garage. Yes, yes...I remember now.

It's like Algebra or Finite mathematics, how is it useful?

That is all.

The figure 8 test is not a life-saving skill, so on the test it is the least important one. This is what the MSF instructor told me.

I've taken both the Basic Rider and Advanced Rider courses and I can say that the figure 8 box is a piece of cake, especially on a scooter. The course I was on the box had the normal size marked and a size four feet narrower. The GTS had no problem making the u turns and 8's in the smaller box.

I took the Advanced class with my GTS and it ran circles around everything else there in every test.

And the GTS has a friction zone of sorts. You can keep it right at that point where the clutch begins to engage and creep along at startlingly slow speeds.

Before I took the first class I didn't really think I needed it. After all I had ridden a lot as a kid on dirt bikes and motorcycles. I was an expert. So what I hadn't ridden in 30 years.

The class proved two things. 1. I'm an idiot. 2. I had terrible, really terrible skills. Especially those related to managing the ride. The MSF course was great once I pulled my head out of my...

I agree. I realized how ignorant I had been. I also did not think I needed the course...Now you would think I was hired by MSS to pitch the "why you need the MSF course" schpeel. In my opinion, it is easier if you are totally inexperienced than to have to "unlearn" all of your bad habits.

Why not use the motorcycle and learn something new? Your paying the money..might as well get some experience...

Another valuable aspect of using the course provided motorcycles is that it gives those who ride only scooters more insight into those riders who only ride motorcycles.

I actually enjoyed using a motorcycle and shifting. I live in New York and my instructor also said that the figure 8 will not save your life but that she had to do it as part of the test. I would pay more attention to the emergency swerve, emergency stop, curves etc... Good Luck

I agree with all that, but I do understand that they are testing your control of the machine at making slow speed maneuvers. I would think that more realistically a simulated tight left or right turn from a stop sign or red light would be a better test, but at least now I know I can turn around in two parking spots at the grocery store (of course I can always just walk it backwards as well to get out of it....)

It's surprising how many times you make these tight turns. I make more than most because I am often turning around to get a picture on narrow roads, gravel roads, etc.

And if a beginner is going to dump the scooter often it's at those slow speeds where they are trying to maneuver around.

When I think about the part of the MSF course that made me nervous it was the test where I had to make a sudden decision. The instructor stood with his arms at his side in front of a cone marked obstacle. I approached at around 25 MPH waiting for him to give a signal to stop, swerve right, or swerve left. It was nerve racking for me to run straight at him and not know what was going to happen. Many, including myself, screwed that up with panic, running wide or stopping badly (means he had to move).

It was excellent practice for sudden things on the road. We practiced it over and over until everyone was comfortable. When the test came it was much easier.

I find that working the rear brake against the throttle on an automatic simulates the friction zone on a shifty. With practice and proper technique--looking through the turns, countersteering/leaning correctly--the figure-eight test is not that hard on a scooter with or without feathering the rear brake.

Good luck!

PS - And while I can't remember ever making a figure-eight in the 'real world', the ability to do tight u-turns is quite useful.

I would say not to even worry about the Box. I bombed the Box on my test (2 times out and 1 foot down) but I still passed the test (with 18 points off). If you are uncomfortable with the Box then work on the swerving, braking, and curves to perfection. then when you get your 'M' you can practice tight turns all you want.

That's just how I roll,
Dave C

I recently took the class in Denver. They provided a 125cc Vino for the class. I worked the "figure 8 box" by mantaining a constant speed on the scooter and really turning my neck to look at where I wanted to go: Think "rotate my neck like an owl". It worked fine (0 points deducted on the whole test.) Light braking on the rear wheel handled any need for minor speed changes.

Be sure and use the whole box. Many folks didn't go way over to the edge on coming out of the first loop of the eight and couldn't turn tight enough to make the second turn: They give you the whole box so use it.

Good luck with the test and don't worry too much about failing. There was some really bad riding on the test and everyone passed. It looked like the only things that would really cause you to fail were dropping the bike or stalling it and stalling a bike is really tough to do on a modern scooter.

That's exactly right. Although it might seem "risky," the closer you are to the edge of the box, the less tight your turns have to be. In my class, I think people went wrong by turning in to the 1st U way too soon, thereby cutting down on the amount of distance (and therefore the amount of speed able to be built up) before having to begin the 2nd.

If you wait, then crank your head way over to the left for the first U, you will have as much room as the box allows, and that's a LOT of room on a scooter.

I think I may simply ride up to the box. Turn off the engine, and use my feet to "walk" my way through that part of the test. Then again maybe the evaluator may not have the same sense of humor I do.

Thanks for all of the helpful advice. If I can simply stop obsessing about the test Sunday, I should be fine. Of course they are expecting rain, and that could put an entirely different spin on things. Longer stopping distances, easy wipe outs, more difficult tight turns.

It hasn't rained for a week or so , and it looks like the Saturday morning group will be fine. Just my luck that they expect temperatures around 95 (and it will feel like well over 100 on the blacktop,) and high humidity, coupled with a good chance of thundershowers at any time.

Can you go practice before the test tomorrow or Saturday when the lot is otherwise vacant just to shake the nerves before the exam?

The figure 8, in theory, is to demonstrate the ability to perform U-turns - both ways - in a width no wider than 2-lanes. I don't know if it's sound or practical, but that's the theory.

Your throttle is all you need. It is amazingly sensitive - just feather it as needed and you'll soon get the feel to maintain the correct speed. As others have said, look ahead (where you want to go, i.e., the opposite side of the "circle"), and use as much of the box as you need.

It's no sweat, really, the first few minutes you may dab as you get a feel for the maneuver, but I'm sure that after 15 minutes you'll have it nailed. From there it's just refining your technique and getting better each time.

I think you're way more anxious than you need to be...it's easy as cupcake with practice.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

We are supposed to practice the morning of the test-Sunday. Thus far we have not even tried any tight turns. Last week was more of a basic getting used to the motorcycles(for those who used them), and then around the cones, and stops. I felt good about last week, and plan to go to a parking lot tomorrow and practice as best I can.

One of our instructors said he honestly can not do a good good figure eight either and I should not worry about it. They claim the passing rate is well over 90%, and some of the people last week really struggled. I just hope my nerves do not cause me to drop the scooter-Besides failing it would really mess up an otherwise perfect machine!

The written was very very easy, and the one question I got wrong, had 2 correct answers I am sure, unless there is a difference between counter weighting, and leaning the bike, but not your body.

For heaven's sake don't drop your scoot!!! Putting a foot down is WAY better than that! Re-testing is a much better option (which you won't have to do) than a repair...or injury.

Relax...it's not that hard. The practice session is all you'll need.

Now an instructor who struggles with figure-8's ....scary.

ask the instuctor to define an "unsafe act" for you

I took the balance of the class today as well as the test and did fine. It was almost 100 degrees with high humidity and we were all miserable.

I lost three points because I used too much distance to brake-I was constantly starting to brake too soon, so I waited until I was sure I had passed the line to apply them and overshot by a bit. I also lost two points because I was a couple of seconds too slow in the timed section. That was it. I lost a total of five points, and even managed to get my figure eight done, albeit with great difficulty, but I did not go outside of the box, nor put my foot down.

I am glad to have that over with, and appreciate everyones support and input.

Congratulations on passing in the high heat conditions!!

great job...told ya...no worries 8)