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Have you ever run across this syndrome?

In the glorius State of NJ there are long stretches of 2 lane seacoast roads with a seawall on one side and homes on the other. In summer these roads usually get heavily backed up in one direction or another, but they usually have shoulders...

So try getting around all the *&%#$* stuck cages with your scoot, and see what happens.. If you split the lane to the left side to ride the line, some angry and paranoid fool in an SUV will invariably pull his front end out in front of you to try and prevent your passing! And if you go on the shoulder on the right side, an ego maniac in a huge Mercedes will suddenly decide that he or she has to pull over to the right to block your end run also! (I can just hear them saying in their air conditioned cages: "Look, look, those scooter riders are getting away with something we can't do! -Stop them, stop them!!)

And of course if the local cops (even motorcycle cops!) see you doing either pass, they'll pull you over and write you a ticket! Razz emoticon

You'd think that at least someone (besides scooterists) in that situation might be grateful that those little buzzing vehicles around them are making the traffic jam ever so much less? And that by not riding huge road and fuel hogging cages the scooterists are also conserving the environment and fuel for those very same cagers too?!!

The me-first-and-screw-you attitudes on our roads here in the USA are sometimes really quite ~ill~ and very ~sad~ IMO!! -Would that we could develop the more realistic attitudes of our European brethren when it comes to sharing the road....
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Re: Oh my God Henry, look what they're doing!!
Chazzlee wrote:
You'd think that at least someone (besides scooterists) in that situation might be grateful that those little buzzing vehicles around them are making the traffic jam ever so much less? And that by not riding huge road and fuel hogging cages the scooterists are also conserving the environment and fuel for those very same cagers too?!!
your first - and fatal - error is to attribute powers of insight, empathy, and reasoned judgment to these sort of idiots.
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Let me get this straight...
It is OK for you to break the law because you have two wheels?
Does that mean it is OK for me to get into a semi and push your car out of the way so that all of the cars behind us can move 10 ft closer to nowhere?
Laws are made for reasons..( most of the time for good reasons ).
Try this logic.. Cager "A" in his caddy coupe d'ville waiting in traffic, scoot guy "B" riding on the shoulder because he is better than everyone in line....
Cager "A" starts to overheat and steam pours out from under his hood and in a panic he pulls over to shoulder quickly... Right when scoot "B" pulls up beside him.
Scoot "B" is critical hurt and the ambulance can't get to him because other important people decided to use the shoulder...
Who is at fault? A for not looking into what is supposed to be a clear lane or B who is to important to follow the law?
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+1

We're not immune to laws that we can get around. This sort of action is what makes many others hate anyone riding on two wheels.

I had a motorcycle guy in town here the other day first pass me in the bike lane and then use a turn lane to pass another car and cut back into the main lane. At the next light, he was one car ahead of me.

His net gain was about 20 feet and a heap of bad will.
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+2


Dave
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I see where he's coming from on the shoulder. I have been to where he's talking about and live out where we get the same stalled heavy traffic when the surf's up. While we don't get a ticket there are a-holes who get pissed just cause you are small enough to pass on the shoulder Cagers even get pissed a bicycles
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Well that is just stupid (referring to the Got Mine post). However LANE SPLITTING is not IMO.
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got mine wrote:
Let me get this straight...
It is OK for you to break the law because you have two wheels?
Does that mean it is OK for me to get into a semi and push your car out of the way so that all of the cars behind us can move 10 ft closer to nowhere?
Laws are made for reasons..( most of the time for good reasons ).
Try this logic.. Cager "A" in his caddy coupe d'ville waiting in traffic, scoot guy "B" riding on the shoulder because he is better than everyone in line....?
Who in the world ever said that? "Better than everyone in line.."?? Sheeesh!
Listen, scooter and MC riders take risks everyday dealing with ignorant, arrogant cagers who don't care about their lives! They should at least get a benefit out of it by not having to be stuck behind these fuel wasting characters when there's no real reason for it!

And all of your example 'situations' are exceptions and improbable. But if they should occur, all it takes is a little common sense and cooperation among people on the road, and not emotional attitudes about "the law is THE LAW"! Have you ever been to Europe and seen the way vehicles share the road there, without all this envy and anger at scooterists and MC riders?

I find myself wondering about why you're so angry about scooterists and MC riders not wanting to be stuck behind cagers when they don't really need to be?
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got mine wrote:
Let me get this straight...
It is OK for you to break the law because you have two wheels?
Does that mean it is OK for me to get into a semi and push your car out of the way so that all of the cars behind us can move 10 ft closer to nowhere?
Laws are made for reasons..( most of the time for good reasons ).
Try this logic.. Cager "A" in his caddy coupe d'ville waiting in traffic, scoot guy "B" riding on the shoulder because he is better than everyone in line....
Cager "A" starts to overheat and steam pours out from under his hood and in a panic he pulls over to shoulder quickly... Right when scoot "B" pulls up beside him.
Scoot "B" is critical hurt and the ambulance can't get to him because other important people decided to use the shoulder...
Who is at fault? A for not looking into what is supposed to be a clear lane or B who is to important to follow the law?
ummm...not sure, but does this mean I can't split lanes anymore?
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Perhaps one of the only real advantages of living in CA.... Legal lane splitting.
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Masala wrote:
Perhaps one of the only real advantages of living in CA.... Legal lane splitting.
Yes, and it works, right?
Or do you run into all of the imagined problems on the road that "got mine" was talking about, because of legal lane splitting there? (I'm not being sarcastic here either; I'd really like to know the answer...) Laughing emoticon
⚠️ Last edited by Chazzlee on UTC; edited 1 time
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davidr5 wrote:
+1

We're not immune to laws that we can get around. This sort of action is what makes many others hate anyone riding on two wheels.

I had a motorcycle guy in town here the other day first pass me in the bike lane and then use a turn lane to pass another car and cut back into the main lane. At the next light, he was one car ahead of me.

His net gain was about 20 feet and a heap of bad will.
I'm not talking here about reckless riding, y'know? Thas a horse of a whole 'nother color! I'm talking about careful lane splitting, and getting around long lines of stalled, fuel wasting traffic at almost walking speeds on yer scoot! Again, common sense should prevail, okay?

And I dunno about how you feel about it, but any kind of motorbike passing me when I wuz unfortunate enough to be sitting in a cage in stalled traffic never made me hate (HATE??) people on two wheels! I may be strange in this, but I actually smile and feel glad for them that the're not stuck in my situation!
(And when you say "HATE" here regarding bike riders, it's precisely this type of emotional dysfunctioning onna road that I'm talking about, y'know?)
⚠️ Last edited by Chazzlee on UTC; edited 3 times
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Chazzlee wrote:
Masala wrote:
Perhaps one of the only real advantages of living in CA.... Legal lane splitting.
Yes, and it works, right?
Or do you run into all of the imagined problems on the road that "got mine" was talking about, because of legal lane splitting there?
Lane splitting in CA does "work", yes. But I should clarify - the situation you describe on the coastal, 1-lane road wouldn't be allowed under CA law. I believe the road has to be at least 2 lanes, and you have to split between the 1st and 2nd lanes at no greater than 35mph, IIRC.

*However* - that doesn't mean it doesn't happen on some of the country roads that are "back ways" to the coast around here. I've done it on the shoulder side of the road, and with plenty of room to spare. Nobody seemed upset by it. The larger bikes, however, would have trouble due to their width.
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A shoulder is not made to be driven on regardless if you have 2 wheels, 3, 4 or 16 !
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I am sorry Californians...
I may not agree with it but lane splitting is legal in your part of the world and I accept it.
This is for the part of the world where it is not legal....
Just because you fit someplace does not give you the right to break the law..
When you accept your license you accept the laws.
You do not have to like them but it is your job/duty to uphold them while you are riding...
I know this is next part might be against MV policy and if it is I apolgize to Jess and everyone else.
If you are to arrogant to follow the laws where you live you should get off the road or start your own country where you can be the Imperial Ruler.
I am guilty of speeding but I do not justify it by saying it gets me home faster so there is less pollution in the air... If I get a ticket I accept it...
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I can't lane split legally around here either.

When my air cooled engine starts to overheat, and I see no signs that the traffic's going to start moving, I start moving, no matter which lane I'm in, or what rule I'm breaking. This is not usually an issue with the scooter, so I tend not to break laws on the scoot. But on my motorcycle, I've occasionally done it. When I have, it follows at least a few minutes of getting off to the side of the road, shutting down the engine, and seeing if the traffic's going to be this ugly for a long time or not, while I let the engine cool down a little and make my decisions. At all times, I pass people no more than a few miles per hour faster than them, in the lowest gear possible, to keep the heat down on the engine.

So far...I've not had anyone get in my face about it.
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got mine wrote:
I know this is next part might be against MV policy and if it is I apolgize to Jess and everyone else.
If you are to arrogant to follow the laws where you live you should get off the road or start your own country where you can be the Imperial Ruler.
Nice way to attempt to close down a thread.. We're been talking about riding problems here, and our opinons about them, so far at least without personal attacks, dig?
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As far as I know we can pass in Indiana. And I do pass in traffic jams. It's part of the reason I have a scooter. I don't pass at 50, but as long as I'm moving, I'm okay with it.

I've also noticed that cops don't pay as much attention to me on my scooter. I don't know if they just don't realize that I can go faster, but I get ignored a lot.

However, when I see someone doing it down the middle of the highway I am angry and I try to block their path. Or I throw broken glass or use a lasso to yank them off of their bike...sometimes I'll use pepper spray to blind them and then I use the oil slick function on my Ford Pinto to make them wreck. And by oil slick I mean that I'm the one who caused the backup with an oil leak.

That is all.
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SiberTater wrote:
As far as I know we can pass in Indiana. And I do pass in traffic jams. It's part of the reason I have a scooter. I don't pass at 50, but as long as I'm moving, I'm okay with it.

I've also noticed that cops don't pay as much attention to me on my scooter. I don't know if they just don't realize that I can go faster, but I get ignored a lot.

However, when I see someone doing it down the middle of the highway I am angry and I try to block their path. Or I throw broken glass or use a lasso to yank them off of their bike...sometimes I'll use pepper spray to blind them and then I use the oil slick function on my Ford Pinto to make them wreck. And by oil slick I mean that I'm the one who caused the backup with an oil leak.

That is all.
Wunnerful!! LOL! Laughing emoticon Laughing emoticon
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Although lane splitting is legal in California (and in many other parts of the world as well), it is nevertheless a very common practice in many other places in which it is not legal. I lane split all the time, including in New Jersey. Many, many other scooter riders do as well. The overwhelming majority of car drivers are indifferent to this or move out of the way to allow the scooter by. In my experience, the risk that someone will become enraged at seeing a scooter lanesplitting is miniscule. Just to make things clear, I recognize that police who stop bikers for lanesplitting are enforcing the law, and I do not have a problem with that.

Brendan
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got mine wrote:
When you accept your license you accept the laws.
You do not have to like them but it is your job/duty to uphold them while you are riding...
So you never exceed the speed limit? Not even a little?

Just curious.
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Masala wrote:
I believe the road has to be at least 2 lanes, and you have to split between the 1st and 2nd lanes at no greater than 35mph, IIRC..
I believe the complete text of it also stipulates that you cannot pass other cars more than 5mph faster than them. It was nice living in CA for a while.
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got mine wrote:
I am sorry Californians...
I may not agree with it but lane splitting is legal in your part of the world and I accept it.
This is for the part of the world where it is not legal....
Just because you fit someplace does not give you the right to break the law..
When you accept your license you accept the laws.
You do not have to like them but it is your job/duty to uphold them while you are riding...
I know this is next part might be against MV policy and if it is I apolgize to Jess and everyone else.
If you are to arrogant to follow the laws where you live you should get off the road or start your own country where you can be the Imperial Ruler.
I am guilty of speeding but I do not justify it by saying it gets me home faster so there is less pollution in the air... If I get a ticket I accept it...
OK, mom. Sorry. Am I still grounded?

If, like me, you live in a city and you don't split lanes (carefully!!!) then I submit you are missing a major value of being a scooterist.

I split lanes daily (mostly backed up traffic at lights). I am very careful. I get where I am going much faster than if I didn't. I use less gas this way and no one gets where they are going slower because of me.

I am a lawbreaker. A very bad man.
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Kevin wrote:
I am a lawbreaker. A very bad man.
Indeed. Now go sit on the naughty step and think about what you've done.
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TheWasp wrote:
Masala wrote:
I believe the road has to be at least 2 lanes, and you have to split between the 1st and 2nd lanes at no greater than 35mph, IIRC..
I believe the complete text of it also stipulates that you cannot pass other cars more than 5mph faster than them. It was nice living in CA for a while.
There is no complete text. All rules regarding lane splitting in CA were removed from the books. In their place stands a single sentence, issued by the California Highway Patrol: Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.

That's it. Nothing else. Every person who ever told you what the official rules are is 100% wrong. There are no specific guidelines whatsoever.
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i'm still with chazlee on this one. 'breaking the law' by scooting up the shoulder of the road to avoid a traffic jam is one thing - using a 2,000lb+ vehicle to exact vigilante justice on a PTW for doing so is a totally different dimension of evilness.
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jess wrote:
TheWasp wrote:
Masala wrote:
I believe the road has to be at least 2 lanes, and you have to split between the 1st and 2nd lanes at no greater than 35mph, IIRC..
I believe the complete text of it also stipulates that you cannot pass other cars more than 5mph faster than them. It was nice living in CA for a while.
There is no complete text. All rules regarding lane splitting in CA were removed from the books. In their place stands a single sentence, issued by the California Highway Patrol: Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.

That's it. Nothing else. Every person who ever told you what the official rules are is 100% wrong. There are no specific guidelines whatsoever.
My info is nearly a decade old.
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TheWasp wrote:
My info is nearly a decade old.
S'okay. A lot of people are under the same impression, and I suspect a lot of people probably get tired of me harping about it over and over again. Still, so many people are still laboring under the same false information that it bears repeating.
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jess wrote:
There is no complete text. All rules regarding lane splitting in CA were removed from the books. In their place stands a single sentence, issued by the California Highway Patrol: Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.
Wow, this is great to know the facts about this...my question is: WHY is lane splitting legal in CA? I had always thought that it had to do with our air cooled engines (although many bikes are now liquid cooled). But it used to be that cars were all air cooled, and they sure can't split lanes! And if it's legal here because of our engines, how come it's not legal in other states? I am flummoxed.
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From another site - in the 'Ask an Officer section'

here's a database of two wheeler laws BTW: http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp
Quote:
The simple answer is.. if someone says it is illegal, please ask them to show you where it says lanesharing is prohibited, outlawed or even discouraged in the vehicle code.

It's not.

There is a law prohibiting lane straddling, that is 21658(a) CVC. This is one law commonly cited when people are riding the bots-dots and are effectively occupying both lanes simultaneously and the citing officer feels their actions were unsafe. Other sections commonly cited are unsafe passing, unsafe speed, following too closely, failure to signal lane change and a few others, all as applicable. I am not saying lanesharing cannot be done unsafely, I'm just saying that when it is done safely, it is 100% legal in CA.

Many states have laws specifically outlawing the practice and describing it exactly. In CA, they tried to pass such a law (waaaay before my time) and the CHP came out against it as well as the AMA. The reason the CHP protested the legislation, or so I am told, is because they rode air-cooled Harleys and most everyone at that time was on air-cooled bikes (Harley's/Indians, BSA's and the like). The wide and relatively new freeways of LA were becoming jammed up and the police found lanesharing a safe and easy way to get around quickly and easily. I am told, for that reason, it has remained unregulated and therefore lawful in CA.

When done safely, lanesharing (or filtering, as it is called in Europe) is a traffic reducer, assuming all of those bikes would represent more cars and trucks, immobilized in gridlocked traffic. Allowing traffic to flow safely between stopped or slowed vehicles make sense.

I copied this (below) from an informational website and it sums it all up pretty well. There are also a couple of other threads on this topic and a link to laneshare.org (see links below) with lots more information.

Meanwhile, grab a bag of Fritos and enjoy this:

Is lane-sharing legal?
Here's the text (verbatim) from the CHP's site: "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible under California law but must done in a safe and prudent manner." The text used to also include "The motorcycle should be traveling no more than 10 mph faster than surrounding traffic (without exceeding the speed limit) and not come close enough to that traffic to cause a collision." but has since been removed. Perhaps they wanted to give cops more latitude to interpret what they thought was safe so they removed it.

Lane sharing on surface streets is probably not addressed in city or county laws so I would do this with caution, as individual cops will decide whether or not they like what they see. As with most prudent riders, I share lanes as necessary on surface streets if I don't see any cops, but I stop immediately if I spot one.

You can also find more on lane-splitting in the DMV Motorcycle handbook (see page 20 in the current handbook).

Can I laneshare to the front of a metered onramp?
In the magazine "Friction Zone," a reader asked "Is it legal to lane split to a metering light? In some areas there are two to three lanes when taking the onramp to the freeway. I normally laneshare right up to the limit line, come to a complete stop, and proceed at the same time (but at a lower speed) as the car I am sharing the lane with and then move in behind him. Am I doing anything wrong?"

The answer from Sergeant Price: "Splitting traffic is not specifically addressed in the California Vehicle Code. However, nothing prevents two vehicles from sharing the same traffic lane until it becomes unsafe. Therefore, you can split traffic on an onramp to advance to the front. However, once at the front of the line, there are usually regulatory signs that limit the number of vehicles allowed to enter the freeway on each successive green light. Usually these signs state "One vehicle per green each lane" or "Two (or three) vehicles per green each lane."

"In the first scenario, this means if there are two metered lanes for traffic, then only one vehicle from each lane may enter the freeway when the light turns green. A motorcycle sharing a lane with another vehicle is in violation of the posted provisions of the sign.

"In the second scenario a motorcyclist would not be in violation of the provisions of the sign since he would be sharing the lane with another vehicle and more than one is allowed for each lane. Be sure to read the signs in your area."
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God bless MV. You guys have your finger on the pulse! This dicussion: illuminating.

Thx.
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2006 LX150 "Amadora"
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7131
UTC quote
Try to lane split in Ontario - even if you are just creeping up to get to the head of a line waiting at a light - and you can be charged with "stunt riding". That translates into an automatic 1 week license suspension, 1 week vehicle impounding, and your day in court. You'll likely win your case, since only about one third of charges laid under the "street racing/stunt riding" legislation are upheld. Still, you'll be out thousands of dollars in nonrefundable court costs, towing and impound fees.

It is entirely at the discretion of the officer to charge or not, but some have.
@nightwing avatar
UTC

Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8587
Location: New Hampshire
 
Contributor
@nightwing avatar
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8587
Location: New Hampshire
UTC quote
amyamygg wrote:
But it used to be that cars were all air cooled, and they sure can't split lanes! And if it's legal here because of our engines, how come it's not legal in other states? I am flummoxed.
When were cars aircooled other than the VW and Corvair?
@starreem avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
07 GTS250(RIP), 07 LX150, Several Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2836
Location: Raleigh, NC
 
Ossessionato
@starreem avatar
07 GTS250(RIP), 07 LX150, Several Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2836
Location: Raleigh, NC
UTC quote
To reiterate: A good resource for motorcycle laws in <b>YOUR</B> state is:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp
@dillinger-63 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Had 2 2006 GTS 250ie's
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2025
Location: NW Tennessee
 
Ossessionato
@dillinger-63 avatar
Had 2 2006 GTS 250ie's
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2025
Location: NW Tennessee
UTC quote
Children, Children. Come to Springfield, Illinois where cagers love us two wheelers so much they even wave at us with one finder extended in the air letting us know that we are number 1.
@mandarinia avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1198
Location: US
 
Molto Verboso
@mandarinia avatar
LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1198
Location: US
UTC quote
Kevin wrote:
I split lanes daily (mostly backed up traffic at lights). I am very careful. I get where I am going much faster than if I didn't. I use less gas this way and no one gets where they are going slower because of me.

I am a lawbreaker. A very bad man.
Did you know that in DC, the little restricted 49cc scoots and mopeds are actually allowed to ride up the shoulders of roads?
The guy we bought our 50cc scoot from was a liquorcyclist who lost his license. He used that scoot every day, rain or shine to get into DC from Alexandria. He kept a copy of the DC laws in his pet carrier in case he was ever stopped. He gave us the papers when we bought it from him.
@amyamygg avatar
UTC

Member
LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37
Location: Napa
 
Member
@amyamygg avatar
LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37
Location: Napa
UTC quote
NightWing wrote:
amyamygg wrote:
But it used to be that cars were all air cooled, and they sure can't split lanes! And if it's legal here because of our engines, how come it's not legal in other states? I am flummoxed.
When were cars aircooled other than the VW and Corvair?
That's what I was thinking of....VW. I guess my viewpoint is biased, I used to have a Westfalia bus, so those always spring to mind.
@ritchj avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
One of each
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3421
Location: Ranura de Monedas, NorCal
 
Ossessionato
@ritchj avatar
One of each
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3421
Location: Ranura de Monedas, NorCal
UTC quote
amyamygg wrote:
I am flummoxed.
Welcome to California Laws and the 2:1 lawyer to resident ratio. Long time resident or not.

Note the part about sharing/splitting/filtering on surface streets.

Now that you have a scooter, start telling friends and family that you learned that 'that thing the MC's do on the freeway is not illegal,' since you're now the two-wheeled expert in their circle of influence: That is good for us all.


Here is my LS program:

Is the freeway dead stop and go? I'm probably sharing: depending on the freeway.

Is the freeway moving really slow, but consistently? Can I balance the bike and or keep enough space to keep moving, and am I making forward progress, I'm probably taking up a cage space. I may do the advantageous pass to get around the guy texting, or someone not paying attention and spending lots of time correcting their trajectory.

A lot of this depends on the road conditions. They all suck around here, but width of each lane, time of day, and day of the week (commuters are used to it, dad yelling at kids on Saturday or soccer moms may birth little cows - not the smartest IMO)

There is one surface street I share on, very rarely - it is a connector road about a mile long, between two major freeways before they stop running parallel and do more of a 'Y' thing.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1619
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1619
UTC quote
hendon wrote:
Although lane splitting is legal in California (and in many other parts of the world as well), it is nevertheless a very common practice in many other places in which it is not legal. I lane split all the time, including in New Jersey. Many, many other scooter riders do as well. The overwhelming majority of car drivers are indifferent to this or move out of the way to allow the scooter by. In my experience, the risk that someone will become enraged at seeing a scooter lanesplitting is miniscule. Just to make things clear, I recognize that police who stop bikers for lanesplitting are enforcing the law, and I do not have a problem with that.
Brendan
Okay, fair enough... There really are some decent cagers in NJ, true! But I'm afraid there's just as many cagers in NJ who are angered by the freedom of scooter riders as there are people who'll move out of the way to let them get by. Because the incidents I'm talking about whereby some stalled cagers become enaged at lane splitting or shoulder passing scooterists and attempt to block them by forcing their huge vehicles in front of them, I'm describing from personal experience! And the actual road it happened on (and is prolly still occurring on today!) is Ocean Blvd, Rt 36, between Sandy Hook and Sea Bright NJ, heading west towards Sea Bright...

That road is always jammed in the summer and I've seen these angry reactions from cagers there many times, and like I said earlier, I don't really understand these people! Whenever I'm stuck in my cage in a traffic jam and bikers get around the long line I'm stuck in, I feel glad for them that they're able to do this!!
Am I so different from everyone else then, that I should feel this way while others seethe and some actually attack scooterists with their bigger vehicles? (And I felt this way before I ever owned a motorbike too. In fact it was this feeling of admiring others' freedom on the road that finally inspired me to buy my first MC and start riding myself..!) 8)
UTC

Hooked
LX 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 248
Location: Brookline, MA
 
Hooked
LX 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 248
Location: Brookline, MA
UTC quote
I still don't know how I feel about lane splitting. Every once in awhile I'll be waiting in traffic with everyone else, and someone on a scooter or moped will zip past on my right, between sitting traffic and parked cars and it scares the hell out of me. Aren't you folks afraid of losing a mirror or ending up stuck between two wide vehicles?

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