Modern Vespa

The CHP website states: http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

The DMV handbook is telling you what they believe is *safe* - not what is legal or illegal.

Hypothetically speaking, if I am on the freeway on a superbike, and I am splitting through traffic at 75mph in a 65mph zone, I would expect to be pulled over by CHP - NOT because I was speeding, but because what I was doing was neither safe nor prudent.

However, if I am approaching a red light on surface streets on my LX150 with a line of cars 2,3, or 20 cars long and I filter to the front at 5mph or less, I do not expect to encounter any problems from law enforcement, as I am being neither unsafe nor imprudent with my decision to filter to the front.

I like the Q right afterwards.

I don't go around cars unless it's a traffic jam. If there's a light, I don't go around. I wait my turn just like everyone else.

I just think that it's unsafe.

Here is about the only thing you'll find in the California Vehicle Code on the matter, and it in no way uses the word "Motorcycle", "sharing," or "splitting." The key words in (a) above being, "...until such movement can be made with reasonable safety."

Like has been previously stated, lane splitting in California IS legal only because there is no law specifically prohibiting it, when done "in a safe and prudent manner." You will not be pulled over *simply* for being caught between two lanes of stopped traffic unless you are otherwise acting like a schmuck.

Wow! It's absolutely amazing how people will misquote you and put words in your mouth to make their own points! I never complained about any "special entitlement to use vacent road as I see fit", only about people who become enraged over bike filtering for no real reason that I can see and use their larger vehicles against you as road blocking weapons!
-And AFAIC if you think this is "rightful resistance", and anywhere near an appropriate attitude for cagers to take concerning bikers, I suggest that you might be definitely safer in a car yourself if that behavior is what you'd "rightfully" expect from cagers..?

Only thing I did mention along those lines is that I thot that at least come cagers could at least maybe think (even a little bit?) now and then about how our smaller vehicles are helping the environment and energyl crisis, and this for even them too! -That doesn't read to me like an 'entitlement' demand; does it read that way to you???

-Shhheesh! I'm getting really tired of being misquoted and having my OP misrepresented in this thread!

I dunno, you tell me? Is everything hunky-dory in Atlanta when riding a small scooter in a traffic jam with large cagers? Do you sit and wait or try and filter thru? And what kind of a reaction do you get?
I've been in Atlanta, and I disliked the traffic there even when driving my car...

WHY, for heavens sake?

Sheeehs, if I got mad at every fool on the highway who drove 80 or 85 MPH on a 65 MPH road I'd constantly be frothing at the mouth... EVERYONE I see on a highway is breaking the laws these days!

Perhaps we should change the laws then? Pres Nixon years ago broke the back of the middle east induced fuel shortage by setting a national US speed limit of 55MPH for several years! I sincerely think if we did the same now (only, say at 60 or 65MPH) and ENFORCED it, we could save billions of gallons of fuel by not being such speed crazed people!

Actually, as far as I remember from my MSF course- in california, lane sharing and lane splitting are two separate things. Lane sharing is illegal - how can you share a lane side by side with a cage? Lane splitting, as Jess found and quoted, should done safely and prudently. I've heard that you should not be lane splitting if the flow of traffic is going over 35 mph.

There was only one instance (in california) where I did not enjoy watching a motorcycle lane split. I was in a cage at a stop light, watching this BMW split in between cars, with metal saddle panniers sticking out. I was afraid it was gonna scratch all cars along the way

No, you're right. Because I have a scooter or a motorcycle I should be able to drive on sidewalks at 80 mph. People should be happy about it as driving on the sidewalk means more room on the road! By speeding I'm getting out of their way faster so they can get to their destination faster. For this I should be canonized St. Boomie, Patron Saint of Traffic and All-Around-Nice-Guy.

[/sarcasm]

First off I don't think anyone on this forum has said it is okay for a car to run a scooter off the road. The argument has progressed as to whether it is cool for someone to take the law into their own hands because they think they know better.

As I've already argued to TheWasp the breakdown lanes are only open because no one is in them. If everyone used them they wouldn't be open anymore and the people who need them for their intended purpose (car breakdown, emergency vehicles, etc.) wouldn't have access.

Breakdown lanes have considerably more debris then the road which puts you at much greater risk for tire damage. Loosing control of your ride puts you and others in danger.

Furthermore since lane splitting (outside of Cali) and driving in the breakdown lane isn't the norm, people don't expect it. This puts you or them in danger. This is where the argument that equates speeding and riding in an illegal lane as the same thing falls apart. Most people who speed do it to keep up with traffic. Doing so may be illegal, but you are driving in a manner that is predictable and expected by the drivers around you. Making your own lanes of travel is unpredictable and unpredictable is dangerous. As a scooter rider you'd probably loose in any collision that might occur but you could hurt others too.

Plus this type of thinking is a slippery slope. First you illegally lane split. Then you drive on the shoulder. Then you cut over corners or through parking lots. You may or may not be comfortable doing this but the fact is that if everyone did traffic would be worse, not better.

Right or wrong laws exist for a reason. If you don't like the laws the right thing to do is work to change them. Disobeying them with some weak self-justification puts you and others in danger.

There is another thing too. You know that this illegal behavior pisses cagers off. Right or wrong if you do it then you will be leaving a bad impression on the public about scooters and motorcycles. At best motorcycle rights will have less support from the people because we'll be seen as irresponsable. This, in turn, makes higher insurance rates and more restrictive laws more likely. At worst they will be enraged and may take their frustrations out on the next scooter rider they see.

I have seen this happen a few times with bicyclists and cagers so it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Fair or not, there is a good chance that others will have to pay for your bad behavior.

Ol' Hogrider hit it on the head. This is one of those issues where no one is ever going to convince anyone of the rightness or wrongness of their view. More importantly, I'm very doubtful that anyone's riding practices will change.

Brendan

I love lane-splitting/filtering and do it every time I need to. Why should I sit in traffic with a bunch of cars and SUVS? Thank goodness for most Californians mentality of being ok with it. I know I certainly move over more to allow bikes by when I'm stuck in a car...

I guess we're just arrogant like that... *shrug*

However, I would never ride on the shoulder unless it was an emergency, that's just stupid and besides... that's where bicyclists usually are.

No one was saying lane splitting in California is arrogant as it is legal there.

I must have misunderstood...

....... ....you know on Sunday.......that isn't really NASCAR on TV/FOX.....that is 285 that goes around ATLANTA ...these/most people drive fricken CRAZY down here (Stan will back me up on this) I will NOT get on the interstate unless of an impending "Nuclear Attack".....i have gotten on what they call "The Wall", or inside lane of 285...you have to be going at least 85mph to not be "nudged off" by other vehicles

To answer you question, Yes they are just as bad, just with a Southern accent though

godoggo ~

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