Modern Vespa

Hmm...I wonder. Given that I tend to ride on the middle left of my lane, I wonder if the road profile would cause that offset wear. Know what I mean? Where I ride, the rear tire would be on that shallow incline of where the driver's side car tire area slopes up to where the middle of the lane would be.

Whadyathink?
Valid hypothesis?

Any day you learn something is a good day! I learned something I didn't formerly know about the Mp3 250 shocks today...they're staggered!

(Now I'm even more dangerously armed with trivial knowledge than ever!)

(Caveat ... I'm not an MP3 owner but interested in one. I currently ride a BV 500.)

Any chance this could be a dragging parking brake issue? My guess would be the brake would wear before the tire does but I had to ask and just throw this into the mix.

Jim:

I don't think the "Gold Standard" is available in 130/70x12", which is what the 250's use on the rear.

You are right - all my bikes have 14" rears, so forgot about that. Sorry folks.

It won't be that - any serious drag would be immediately felt. But good for throwing the idea in!

Looked at all my tyres this afternoon, and the X9 125 ones are wearing on the RHS more than the left - I asked my son and he says there are two tight RH corners in and out of our road that he accelerates hard round several times a day. That'd cause that wear - maybe Fuzzy has some similar local road condition?

Well I will throw in another idea. From the pictures it looked as if the strange wear pattern did not go all the way around hte circumference of the tire. I propose that he was locking up the back tire during hard braking causing a wear spot. JMTC

Fuzzy I have my wifes 250 spring rate adjusted up 2 notches as it did feel spongy in the back when riding. I weigh 180 lbs and while I won't reveal her weight (you know women how pissed off they can be) she is considerbly less than me. I was thinking you should look at what your weight is and the conditions (bumpyness) of the majority of the roads you travel and try different spring settings for better traction and hopefully better wear on your next tire.

On a related note, anyone else find that it's a flippin' bear to adjust that right side shock preload with the brake cable and exhaust in the way?

-nub

Yeah put the scoot on the center stand, spray the colar with some WD, use the supplied wrench, slowly move the collar back and forth to loosen, then 1 hard pull to the next notch,

Ah - I'd forgotten about the 'rider weight' issue. I'm 11 stone exactly (154lb) and have my rear suspension on the second setting. I wonder if a heavy rider on the lowest setting might have rubbed that tyre on suspension excursions...

Whatever the rub spot is should be nice and shiny now. Should be easy to spot!

Whatever the cause, it certainly isn't normal.

a. severely improper inflation.
b. extreme road conditions such as high speeds over coarse gravel
c. rider abuse (not sure how this is possible on a 500)

I ride hard and have 2600 miles. Some cupping but minor wear. I have Michelin Gold Standards.

My opinion is that this problem is one-off and nothing to worry about for the larger community.

88

As has been pointed out to me these are smaller wheels (so at least 25% more tyre wear) - and these were Pilot Sports - but hang on, these are the bee's knees for dual compound tyres...

So something is wrong. The early low-pressure won't have made a jot of difference if only for 200 miles, wear would have equalised not long after.

Something has scraped against that tyre, or it has been inappropriately inflated/ridden. An MPS won't shrug its shoulders (or even its centre) after just 2,500 miles. Even allowing for the wheel-size difference I'd expect 6,000 miles from one in normal use, maybe a tad less if me or 88 was riding. (I recognise a 'progressive' rider subliminally.)

Do you also have MGStandards on the front 88?

There are no MGS 12" tyres I believe. Here all the 500 fronts have been MPS (Pilot Sports) and last well over 12,000 miles with every abuse imaginable.

I'll just repeat what I said eariler in this thread. I had a Pirellie GTS-24 do exactly the same thing after 2500 miles. No abuse, no over/under inflation and no riding on gravel or dirt roads. I noted the tire was wearing thin and had ordered a replacement. The shop got me the wrong tire (they ordered a Pirellie SL-36 which isn't rated high enought for weight) and while I was waiting for the correct tire to arrive my rear tire deflated on a ride and showed very similar wear patterns including the cords and big hole in tread. It wasn't rubbing anywhere at all either. Now this is my fault as I knew I needed a new rear and had I gotten the correct tire the first time then I would have avoided the flat. I was keeping an eye on the tire wear but as I stated before, it went from "hmm looks pretty worn" to "OMG threads everywhere and boom tire is flat" in very few miles, probably less than 100 and I'd guess it at 45-60 miles.

Oh and my GTS-23's on the front look very good still at 6000 miles.

Went to Mid Town Atlanta today to get the tire replaced. The shop was booked solid, but they fit me in. (Wait wasn't bad as I got to watch a mechanic take apart a variator on a chinese bike. Educational for me.)

For the last two months I have driven my truck very little. My knuckles on my left hand hurt because driving 90 miles to Atlanta, everytime I saw I bike going the other way my reflex was to give a wave thus hitting my knuckles on the window.

It is great to have a dealer that carries parts. Two other dealers I called needed 3 to 5 days to get a tire. They carry both the city and sport Michelin and I put another sport on. I did have them order a Zippy 1 for me based on UFO's experience of twice the life. Several in the shop expressed a like for the Zippy but they did not realize it came in 12" They may start stocking them. I want a spare tire at home if I need one. I can remove the wheel and get a local shop to put the tire on the rim and not take all day driving to Atlanta every couple months. Their price for the Zippy is less than what I had found on the internet.

Unable to find anything wrong on the bike. Seeing the whole tire the variation in wear around the circumfrence was major. Some areas had rubber left and others totally through the treads. Might be a case for putting the bike on the stand, releasing the brake, and rolling the tire around to look at it frequently. Very little of the rear tire is visible. No one in the shop had seen anything like it and were of the belief that there may have been something in the manufacture of the tire.

The mechanic was nice enough to let me observe the tire change. It can be a bother to have someone looking over your shoulder while doing maintenance work. He gave me a few insights into the bike which can be helpful down the road. I am confident in his abilities.

All of my experience with the Scooter Superstore Mid Town Atlanta has been great. I strongly recommend them. They are in the process of setting up a new store near Peach Tree City.

As to my riding habits.
- The 2000 miles on this 250 is all of my lifetime experience.
- The Michelin Tires on my Honda Ridgeline have 87,000 miles with lots of tread left. The speed of wear on this tire took me by surprise.
- I do not feel I ride the bike agressively. I let the engine do most of my braking and use the brakes lightly. Having read Profecient Motorcycling I use the front brake much more than the back.
- My drive way is 100 yards of deep gravel and the tire will spin some getting up the drive way. The only other place I have ever spun the tire in on a small sandy spot on the pavement leaving work.
- Other than in my gravel driveway moving slow I don't think I have ever skid the rear tire using the brake.
- My drive to work is 13 miles one way, 55mph speed limit. Right and left turns are equal on the way to work and I take the same route both ways which cancels out the turns in the road.
- Most of my riding is 2 lane roads with 55 mph speed limits. I drive 65 to 70 indicated to keep up with the traffic. On some longer rides with no traffic I have maintained 70 to 75 indicated.
- I live 10 miles outside the city limits and have spent little time with the bike on city streets.

I believe my bottom line is that a worn out tire in 2000 miles on a 250 is not a unique experience. I may have lost some life by running low pressure early on. Maybe the tire had a manufacturing issue like the mechanics think. I will keep a closer watch and my third tire will be a different brand (Zippy 1) which reportedly gets better mileage. If I only get 2000 miles on the second tire the Zippy will go on in about 6 weeks.

All the replies to this thread have been an education for me and I am proud to be part of the group.

+1

One caution, the Zippy is speed rated J and that is up to only 62 mph. I know UFO used them on the front of his bike but I'm unsure if he had them on the back as well.

UFO has multiple posts on using Zippy 1 on his rear and the extra mileage they give. On Aug 13, 2007 he posted this message responding to the rating. The continental web sight does give it a rating of "L" which is 75 mph. My bike tops out at 75 mph indicated on flat ground so it is within the rating.

The web page is www.conti-online.com Download the technical manual. Rating definitions are on page 138. Tires for the MP3 250 are on page 107 and include the Zippy 1 for both front and rear. It is also rated for 493.9 pounds.

Thank You Fuzzy, for adding some experience, integrity, and class into this forum.



.

Jim,

Look at http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=2092004120542&codePage=2092004120542_13092004111631&lang=EN

for MGS 130/70-12 62P TL REINF

GR, Leo

Here are some pics of the rear tire on my 250 for comparison. Michelin Pilot Sport SC that came on the bike. I currently have 2477 miles on it. I drive about 46 miles a day on mostly 2 lane blacktop highways at 55 to 60mph (about 70 percent of my trip the rest in town). Does this look like normal wear?

Doesn't look too squared off. UK riders are reporting about 6,000 miles for a rear tyre on 250's (OEM ones, whatever they were). Maybe it's the road surface? Ours is nearly all tarmac, maybe the US has more concrete?

Stickyfrog, those pictures look like a carbon copy of my rear tire with just under 3k.

Looking more closely, there's some cupping and some hints of over-temperature. Doesn't look like too many twisties have been encountered.

No mostly tarmac. The only concrete i ride on is my 50 foot driveway. Thus the powdery tread. I am thinking that the wear looks pretty normal...i think there is 2000 more here. Have you replaced them since?[/quote]

I just took a peak at my 500 and definately has the Gold Standard on the two front wheels.

Strange, Michelin don't quote as making a 120/70 12 - only a 130/70 12. Usually it is Michelin Pilot Sports on the front.

I had a look at this site:
http://www.michelinmotorcycle.com/index.cfm?event=GoldStandard

It looks like Michelin make 120/70 Gold Standard front tyres, but the rear tyres are only available in 14" and 15".

MGS tyres from that page:

Front
110/90-12 64 P
130/70-12 62 P Reinf.
110/90-13 56 P
130/70-13 63 P Reinf.
140/60-13 63 P
120/70-14 55 P
120/70-14 55 S
120/70-15 56 S
110/70-16 52 P
110/70-16 52 S
110/80-16 55 S

Rear
140/60-14 64 P Reinf.
140/60-14 64 S Reinf.
140/70-14 68 S Reinf.
150/70-14 66 S
140/70-16 65 P
140/70-16 65 S

So, no front tyres for the MP3 then (120/70 12).

The rear tire on a 250 is 130/70-12.

What is the difference between tires designed for front and rear?

As a general rule, rear tyres wear on acceleration, fronts on braking.

"Designed for large-displacement scooters, the distinct front and rear tread patterns of Michelin® Gold Standard® tires help evacuate water effectively and help promote impressive durability.

Developed for large-displacement (125 to 500cc) 'ultra' scooters

Distinct front and rear tread patterns for even wear and efficient water evacuation

Outstanding grip with exceptional mileage"

Here are the fronts today at 2500. Still lot's o tread but i think i need to order a rear tire....anyone have a suggestion?

Those are the standard Michelin Pilot Sports (MPS) in front.

If they do one in the right size I'd try the same family on the rear - or at least any other dual-compound tyre. Note Pilot City tyres do not cut it for any sustained high-speed stuff, they reign supreme for slower but more 'jerky' urban use.

Thanks agian jim!

This morning when I got to work I took a picture of my tread wear. This is my MP3 400 with 2200 miles on it. I also noticed the shocks were level, I guess that is just a MP3 250 thing to have them uneven. All things being equal, I think this tire will be good for a long time. I feel for you guys having wear problems that ealry, but I think we all agree that seeing tire wear at that rate is definitely unusual.

Here is a pic of my tire, had to post it in doc format. (Stupid work computer)

Low pressure will allow more of the sidewall to contact the road. The tyre temperature will increase, but the usual problem is damaged sidewalls, rather than damaged tread area.

High pressures will cause more of the centre tread to contact the road. If I were you I would trust those mechanics - they are almost certainly right!

In addition, if a tyre is out of balance (and most people don't balance rear wheels) it will wear unevenly around/along the circumference. Most of my motorcycle rear tyres wear unevenly around/along the circumference, by as much as 2-3 mm in 10,000 km.

However I believe your tyre was faulty, as if the softer rubber compound in a dual compund tyre ended up in the centre, instead of just on the outside. I have no idea if these are dual compound tyres, but that or a poorly formed carcass are the most likely reasons for this problem.

Cheers

Trevor G

Puch RL125 & SRA150