Modern Vespa

Hi MP3ers!

I am just researching MP3s and really like what I see and read. I started riding motorcycles in 1982 and my main bike was a GPZ 550 (I actually had two of them at two different times -- loved that bike!).

I haven't ridden in more than 10 years and am considering an MP3 for a commute from Walnut Creek to San Francisco across the Bay Bridge. It's killing me in the car - not just in gas and tolls but in time.

So, my question is, does the 250 have enough torque to get you out of trouble? Is it responsive enough to withstand crazy drivers, or do you think the 400 or 500 would make a big difference?

I like the price, mpg and storage of the 250. My only consideration is the wiggle room.

In particular I'd like to hear what you 250 riders think, but would welcome anyone weighing in.

Forgive me if the question's already been asked. This is my first post.

I learned to ride the street on a GPZ550............... Oh they are faster than the MP250.... But not as fun!

I'm translating this in my mind to negotiating London with a bit of the M25 thown in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartford_Crossing has clues.

Frankly, I'd prefer the 400 or 500 for that. The 250 is fine if you don't need overtaking capability, but I suspect you do. Although more economical on fuel than its bigger brothers, the 250 costs almost as much in maintenance. Realistically the only downsides of the larger engined models are availability (they are popular!) and initial price.

I commute 46 miles daily on a 250 and have not had any problems. I can accelerate out of most situations if necessary and i keep up with traffic nicely. I should add that here in florida i do not have long hills to climb. And my commute does not take me on interstates although i have been on I95 for short distances with no problems. I am not an aggressive driver. Hope this helps.

I have the 250. I don't commute to the city on it. I know people who do commute, they have 400cc bikes. I think the 400 would be a really good commuter. Storage, power, good handling in variable weather.

I have the 250. I agree with Paige... for the commute you described, I'd consider the 400. More storage than the 500 for commuting, and good power.

I agree with both of you.

I had a 250 and wish it was quicker off the line so I traded up to a 500 and am now going to get the j costa variator for more lower end torque.

There are a lot of steep hills in CA and the drivers that pull close behind me when I am stopped have no idea I can't get out of their way like one of the crotch rockets.

As mean looking as the Demon 500 is, I always remind people that it is a scooter, a great looking scooter though...

However if I lived in Florida like "Stickyfrog" I would have kept the 250 for sure.


Best gas milage, best storage too.

If you are riding mostly flat land then the 250 is perfect!

You don't need anything more than that.

I live in Vancouver,BC. we got lots of hills here, but honestly I haven't noticed a problem with my 250 yet. I'm new to two/three wheels though, so my reply might be biased to some degree (i hear after about a year of ownership, most newcomers like to tradeup for bigger engines).

the speed limit on highways here is 90 - 100 kph... and the mp3 250 easily does 80-90 with me on a somewhat steep incline on open throttle. but then it gets stuck at about 90kph (i weigh about 87kg/191lbs).


hope that helps.

but the 400 doesn't have this drawback at all (As other before have stated).

I live in Walnut Creek, too; and though I am retired, I ride my MP3 250 all over on the NorCal freeway systems. I have no problem keeping up with the flow on Hwys 680, 24, 580, 880, etc. You just have to ride the 250 differently then you would a more powerful machine.

You ride the 250 like you would drive an old VW Bug. You don't have a lot of power to spare when you're travelling at 65-70 mph; so, in a critical situation instead of powering your way out of that situation, you've got to use your brakes and superior handling to escape. Most of my 7,000 miles of riding over the past year has been travelling the aforementioned freeway systems for my task force work on the "Ride for Kids" event. Yes, I've traversed the Golden Gate, Benica, Antioch, Bay and San Mateo bridges over that period of time, and truly, I've had no problems keeping up with the traffic flow.

The added benefit of the 250 as opposed to the larger cc versions, is the phenominal gas mileage you'll get riding the 250. My highway mileage seems to hover in the 60-63 mpg range, which ain't bad! Now, if you intend to do a lot of 2 up riding, especially on the freeway or at altitude, you'd be better off considering the 400 or 500 MP3.

the 250 and 400 have the same storage capacities, if you need more the you could add the givi trunk box on any of them.

power differences: I can only comment between the 250 and 500 as we have both. the 250 is good in most areas around town and I feel in light commutes. I really like the power of the 500 for myself ( I am an ex dirt bike racer and have ridden 40+ years mostly street) so I prefer the extra umph of the 500.

Bottom line is you need to demo both and then make the right choice for you.

I agree with Jim. However, I commute 13 miles into Boston on I93 daily and have no problems. Your commute will tend to be 10-15 mph faster in SF on I80 so if you are already cruising at say 65, you won't have the pull away power of larger engine.

It all boils down to your riding experience and your expectations. If at all possible you should try a demo 250--if you can find one, and try it before you buy. I'm guessing the 400 would be better suited for your commute. I've ridden the Bay area (used to live in Monterey) and the speeds can get up there as you know.

Bottom line: I would do it on my 250, but I would probably have been in the market for the 400 if I was in your shoes. Best of luck and I hope this helps a bit.

I agree with Captain John. It's not about power or torque necessarily but riding style. When I owned the 250 I was right lane only on the freeway with LOTS of space between cars. It requires patience. The swerve (or acccident avoidance) characteristics of the 250 are probably better than the 4/5 as the bike weights less.

I did find that adding a J. Costa variator to the 250 provided a marked improvement.

With my 500, while I do ride left lane on the freeways and it has significantly more torque, at speed the torque is still porky. Getting out of the way in an emergency at 60mph by twisitng the throttle on the 500 is still somewhat anemic.

All 3 will provide competentcy for your commute. The best way to judge is to find a dealer where you can test ride the 250 and 4/5 on the freeway.

88

Thanks everybody for all the very helpful replies to me post. Bottom line is I'll test drive the 250 and 400 and make my decision based on that.

Captain John, did I miss your Ride for Kids event? Was it the June event in San Francisco? Sounds like Erin is being treated at UCSF Medical Center where I work. I just returned to UC after 13 years. I handle marketing for UCSF Children's Hospital and would love to do a Ride for Kids. If you keep me posted on upcoming events I'll see if I can get the info on our internal and external websites. I hope Erin is doing well. The Gamma Knife is an amazing treatment method.

You did miss the San Francisco event that took place in Pleasanton; however the last Northern California "Ride for Kids" event takes place on October 5th at the Yolo County Fairgrounds in Woodland. I'll be riding my MP3 250 to that event. In fact, I'll be leading a group of riders from the Long's parking lot, located next door to Vespa of Walnut Creek. PM me if you're interested in the ride.

As for my great niece Erin, she underwent her gamma knife surgery at UC Davis, and although the surgery itself was less invasive, her recovery was very difficult for her. In fact, she's still recovering from that surgery; but so far (knock on wood), what's left of the tumor does not appear to be growing or spreading.

Once again, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the ModernVespa folks for supporting this worthwhile event. Your participation in June was noted and appreciated by all the "Ride for Kids" officials at the event. I hope many of you will join me at the Sacramento event in October!

If I buy a scooter I'll definately ride with you in October Captain John!

I'm familiar with the route you'd be taking on that commute (through the Caldecott) and the most difficult part will almost certainly be the uphill section approaching the tunnel from either direction. The weight of the MP3 paired with the 250 engine paired with an uphill freeway section is, in my opinion, the achilles heel of the MP3 250. It can certainly be done, but as others point out, you have to be much more aware of who is coming up behind you and what lane you're in.

It also depends to a large degree on what time of the day you will be approaching the tunnel. If traffic is crawling anyway, it won't be an issue. If traffic is moving along at 65 or more, it'll be a lot harder to climb that hill every day while maintaining an appropriate speed.

I have no issues doing such a ride on the MP3 250, but I would think that the constant paranoia of watching my mirror on the climb would get tiresome if I had to do it every day. For that reason, and only that reason, I would tend to lean toward the MP3-400 as a better choice in this particular situation.

I really appreciate your helpful comment as the Caldecott is a nightmare anyway. How have you found lane splitting to be through the tunnel?

So i think is is safe to say that in general if you got lots of freeway (we call em interstates back here on the east coast) or long hilly driving then look at a 400 or 500. If you mostly travel 2 lane relatively flat blacktops at 60 mpg or less then a 250 would be the ticket...again...in general.

I've never had occasion to lane split through the tunnel, and I'm not sure I would if presented the opportunity. I lane split frequently, but the tunnel dimensions are kind of tight and traffic tends to be difficult to squeeze through right there.

I would call it an interstate (we have those too ) but the freeway in question isn't an interstate. I believe it's technically a state highway.

Yes exactly how I feel about my 250, good for everything except when the hills go up on the freeway and then its wide open throttle and a sharp eye on the mirrors. You must plan ahead with the 250 at 65 mph, I'd love to have more capability at that speed.