Modern Vespa

I am getting the "Leo exhaust" put on tomorrow.

I was told if you change out your exhaust pipe the bike is not under the factory warranty.

However, if you go to get your bike serviced, you should put your factory exhaust pipe back on.

Now for my edit.....

I was told this by a bike mechanic who was not related to piaggio.

Now if I want my servicing I will have no problem, oil changes, ect...

so Piaggio will service my bike even though I have a different exhaust system on it, or I will just say pipe.

Because this has no effect on the engine or it's working parts.

What will the "Leo Exhaust" do for the bike? I'm not familiar with the product and I'm just curious.

Please excuse my layman's terms but this is what I was told about the exhaust....

If you want the Mp3 500 to be a little stronger on take-off and mid speed, you should add 2 things.

1. a Jcosta variator.
2. a "leo exhaust pipe.

The way the mechanic explained to me was like this....

he said, picture yourself running and breathing heavily only through a straw.
then he said try running, breathing heavy, but taking your air in from a large hose or tube.

The more air the bike takes in the better the performance.

now I know this to be true on cars but I hope the experts on here will weigh in and try to explain it better.

I do know this though...

I had a friend of mine that had that done to his 250 and there definetly was a difference.

Someone wanna explain the whole jcosta variator thing too? I mean...as if I were a two year old. I'm new to all of those

Good people on here!

The J Costa variator works on a similar fundamental principle but on a completely different mechanical one to the OEM variator. Instead of 6 or 8 sliding rollers there are 14 cylindrical weights that get flung out. Google for pictures...

The exhaust will (IMHO, and by all reports) make not much difference to the o/p power, the closed system ECU takes care of that. I'm told it 'sounds' nicer, if you like that sort of thing.

The different variator/exhaust shouldn't affect warranty with a sensible dealer, but it could with one who wants to be arsey. Check with your own dealer before deploying these fun extras, your warranty may be vital unless you don't mind paying for all repairs yourself. This is a major caveat, please take it into account.

I called my dealer and he told me not to worry about it.
so you were right, it is thier discretion on the warranty issue.

They said as long as no major changes were done to the bike or engine I should be fine.

Well many Piaggio folks do frequent this wonderful forum and owners (or even dreamers) do put Piaggio on notice of these type of tricks by posting them here !!

SDG

These are not tricks Dave!

I got this info from Piaggio!

Many people have variators and different exhausts and they still get their bike serviced "as long as the problem is not associated to the modifiction"

I think that dealers who over inflate their prices are the worst kind of tricks

This is unethical and dishonest. Clients can do whatever they want however Piaggio dealers have an obligation (as they should) to protect their Company from potentially fraud related warranty claims. There is still honor in the world. Race bikes and dirt bikes don't have warranties, this is why. Original post can be edited 11 times however the paste of this one cannot.

SDG

well if piaggio says to me they will still service my bike even though I have a different pipe on it then I am going to go through with the modification.

How can you say that making your bike a little better is hurting or defrauding Piaggio?

As a new member of Modern Vespa I would suggest either asking questions or sharing pictures/experiences of your scooter because Piaggio did not tell you this and incorrect information could give a good MV member the wrong impression or worse, they might actually believe this stuff. I am kind of tired of walking on egg shells here and am willing to risk a little rumble on MV to get the truth out.

SDG

I will call piaggio in New York tomorrow and ask them personally.

If they said it will void my warranty, then I won't do it!

I haven't made any changes yet so let's just see what they say.

That seems fair enough....

Wise choice, first amount of new owner humility you have shown, wow keep this up and you might just make it around here.

Please do share with Modern Vespa the HONEST answer you get if you can actually get somebody on the phone. Ask them where you can pick one of these up also, they are very hard to find.

SDG

all my answers were honest.

whether they were liked or not are two different things though.

But here is my question to you, and yes, I am liking you already,

if I put on a tom tom, radar detector, different seat, "That would affect the seat sensor", alarm, would that affect the warranty.

because these are all things connected to the electrical system and battery.

That's a legitimate question......

Absolutely they could, period. You are talking about electrical mod's here which can blow an ECU or things like that. With the exception of a nav system why would anybody try to remanufacture an Italian masterpiece. Just go buy one, ride it and have fun. This bike is not for "driving thru Pep Boys with a magnet'.

SDG

The bottom line is that warranty will be accepted by Piaggio IF a dealer is persistent and IF a dealer has some established street-cred/clout with them. Even so, Piaggio might take months re-imbursing the dealer - so dealers without cred/clout are reluctant to take on warranty work without Piaggio say-so in the first place, let alone if any mods have been done.

*Very* good dealers will do the work regardless, and will beat Piaggio into the corner on any warranty issue, but those with the balls to do it are few and far between. We even had a case here in the UK when a dealer refused even to service an X9 because the 'max speed' showed in excess of the National Speed Limit. That dealer has lost much custom, word of 'mouth' works quite well in the customer's favour.

The bottom line is that if you do a mod that subsequently could be proved to have caused a failure that you claim under warranty, you are quite rightly stuffed.

I have installed the J Costa variator. If my crankshaft suddenly shed its splines I'm pretty sure a warranty claim would not be presumed successful...

well, it looks like my bike is going to be stock for quite sometime.
"at least until the warranty runs out"

I really wanted that variator too but I think they have a portable nav system that works off it's own batteries.

lot to think about...

Agree 100% Jim. Just remember that NO dealer is going to go to war for a client that has been a local nightmare for the months preceding their disaster requiring warranty claim. Just as dealers needs good working relationships with their Piaggio tech department (we have a very good one), that 1 out of 50 impossible client better get real with the dealer body also or they aren't going to get any additional assistance for an issue like this. its called karma.

Best,
SDG

Now everyone will know that if you add these mods that you will be taking a chance on your factory warranty.

Is is worth it?

not to me.... for I know nothing about the mechanics of the bike.

you decide....

A special thanks to Jim and SDG!

My comments:

a. My dealer will provide warranty work no matter what mods I make.

b. LV exhaust does nothing for power or performance, only weight reduction and sound.

c. J. Costa variator does provide quicker spin-up to higher revs....and places the motor in the optimum torque range quicker.

d. While I have the LV and Costa on the 500 I am really anxious for two things 1. brembo brakes (I think the brakes are very mediocre) and 2. new shocks/springs (awful as well) It would be great if Jettin could obtain a brembo caliper bracket for the 500 similar to what they do for the gts.

88

Has anyone else noticed the rear brake seems very soft or mushy? The front brakes grab nice and firm with very little play in the brake lever at all.

The rear brake, on the other hand, does not inspire much confidence at all. I have to pull the brake lever pretty hard and they don't seem to bite or grab like the front. Is something out of adjustment or is this just "how it is"?

I will be taking the scooter in for the 600 mile service in a couple of weeks, but before I go and talk to them about this I wanted to know if this can be adjusted to provided better rear braking or should I just get used to it? Thanks for any advice.

70 % of the braking/stopping power is done with the front breaks. on the MP3 you have 2 discs up front and 1 in the rear. so in effect you will not feel the same force with the rear breaks as you do with the front

Given that 70% of the braking on a bike is in the front it's only natural for the rear brakes to seem less effective than the front. That being said it does seem the general consensus is the rear brakes seem "squishier" feeling at the handle. Stops fine tho... I had my first panic stop last week and it stopped on a dime from 45.

I'm not a dealer, nor an expert on such matters (any?) but the addition of aftermarket exhaust pipe will only affect the warranty on EXHAUST related issues, should they crop-up. IE don't expect Piaggio or one of it's dealers to cover a problem caused by another manufacturers exhaust. If you have the exhaust, and your Variator fails, for instance, they will cover that. I believe if you research the Magnuson-Moss warranty act., it will wxplain better than that...

Agreed Matt however there is enough involved with an exhaust system that it could get into engine related failures, I am just saying...

Regarding the variator and items like that, I completely agree with that.

Best
SDG

Yes, that is entirely possible and even probable, and of course, the warrantor will attempt "prove" that your aftermarket part caused the failure, and the oness to prove otherwise will fall on you, the warrantee.

Caveat emptor, but the addition of certain aftermarket items don't automatically negate "warranty" coverage as a whole they just kind of fragment it....that's the part of Mag-Moss Warranty act I referred to.

Of course, the manufactrers want you to think differently...but here is an excerpt:

Legally, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle (per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))

At the end of the day, it will still boil down to your relationship with your dealer, and how hard he's prepared to go to be the liason between the Mfr., and you the customer. As a good client of the dealer, your odds are better should you need warranty support.

"Good client?" Different things to different people, the the same thing to every dealer:
Buys things at or near asking price
Cheerfully supports their business
Is pleasant to the help
Recommends to friends

Local laws may say one thing, the Piaggio 'family' may dictate another. A dealer is fully within their rights to refuse even to work on any bike - for no reason given. Their service is not a right. If a customer is a RRPITA they may be given short shrift - and I'd be on the dealer's side on that one.

However, a dealer may have a customer who is mechanically savvy, has obviously looked after the bike, who done a few mods but has a problem that should be done under warranty - take J Costa variator and steering bearings as an example. I know my dealer (and Piaggio UK) will honour the the warranty on the steering bearings. I might ask them for warranty help with early worn clutch shoes (hasn't happened, this is hypothetical), but with my publically admitted J Costa mod wouldn't expect it.

I see many posts here about dealers supposedly gouging customers. The decent dealers *I* know have an opposite problem - customers who try to gouge them. Sensibly, these tend to be one-time customers only. And word gets around, forums are a two-way street, and there are more of them than any of us know about.

So mod away to your heart's content folks, but be upfront about it - especially to your insurance company. Any modification away from factory spec makes your insurance invalid unless they have been informed - in theory. That means if they find out, and they might; not a good risk to take.

Absolutely! Be good to your dealer, he (she?) will be good to you!