Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:54 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:54 pm linkquote
Welcome to project Rosebud

This was going to be my cannonball bike but I opted to ride a SYM HD200 instead.

I decided to post now instead of waiting till it's done as another thread was started asking what would be needed to fit a GT engine in an LX frame.

Here's what I know and have tried so far.


photoshop shows that the engine will clear the outside of the body but a 10in rear hub and wheel are needed off the LX.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:05 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:05 pm linkquote
To convert the rear hub to a 10 in wheel you need all three gears from the LX or ET4, the outside case of the rear hub, and the rear rim.

As you can see from the pictures the GT engine case has the castings in place to move the gears from the GT format to the LX.

This same conversion can't be done on the GTS engine as the bearing placement is completely different.


GT engine case rear hub. showing casting to hold bearings for both the GT and LX gears.


Gears arranged as in the GT


Gears arranged as in the LX


GT200 engine with LX rear hub and wheel



Last edited by oopsclunkthud on Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:12 pm

Molto Verboso
'06 Vespa GTS 250 i.e., '77 Vespa P200
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 1260
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
Molto Verboso
'06 Vespa GTS 250 i.e., '77 Vespa P200
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 1260
Location: Bay Area, CA
Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:12 pm linkquote
It looks so weird with that tiny little wheel. Do you have one or two shocks mounted?

P.S. It still looks gay.
Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:14 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:14 pm linkquote
With the spring removed from the rear shock to check travel the engine can be squeezed in mostly. Everything clears at the bottom of travel but at the top there is issues with the valve cover hitting on the internal support of the frame.

I decided to remove it with plans to replace it with one that clears everything.


GT200 engine in the LX frame


Internal support uncut


internal support cut


valve cover clearing frame

Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:20 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:20 pm linkquote
The engine mount will need a lot of work so the exhaust clears but the coolant lines enter the frame with no issues at all.


Exhaust and engine mount clearance issues.


coolant lines pass nicely through end of floorboards with plastic removed.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:31 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9520
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9520
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:31 am linkquote
nice work, sir.

let me know if you need that head flowed...

best,
-greasy
Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:34 am

WHOoligan
1985 PX200E Arcobaleno : 2010/14 GTS300 S: RIP GTS250 @ 40K
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 6695
Location: Los Angeles Kings, Stanley Cup Champions X2
 
WHOoligan
1985 PX200E Arcobaleno : 2010/14 GTS300 S: RIP GTS250 @ 40K
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 6695
Location: Los Angeles Kings, Stanley Cup Champions X2
Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:34 am linkquote
Wow, thats really cool. That would def be interesting to ride.

Props my brotha.

Manny
Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:51 am

Addicted
2008 Blue GT200 (Cringer)
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 686
Location: Wilson NC
 
Addicted
2008 Blue GT200 (Cringer)
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 686
Location: Wilson NC
Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:51 am linkquote
Its going to be very interesting to see what happens, good luck.
Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:25 pm

Hooked
'80 Bajaj Chetak; '65 Vespa V90; '59 Lambretta Li125
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: St. Louis, MO
 
Hooked
'80 Bajaj Chetak; '65 Vespa V90; '59 Lambretta Li125
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: St. Louis, MO
Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:25 pm linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
To convert the rear hub to a 10 in wheel you need all three gears from the LX or ET4, the outside case of the rear hub, and the rear rim.

As you can see from the pictures the GT engine case has the castings in place to move the gears from the GT format to the LX.
Did you get to take "Rosebud" out for a spin ever? I'm wondering if using the different final gears makes a difference in performance, positive or negative. Intuition says it would, but I dunno.

Last edited by Valimagdon on Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:35 pm

Molto Verboso
Nazgul
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1985
Location: North Chesterfield, VA
 
Molto Verboso
Nazgul
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1985
Location: North Chesterfield, VA
Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:35 pm linkquote
Patrick, that's insanely cool. You da man!
Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:32 pm

Ossessionato
Peugeot Looxor
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 3220
Location: KCMO
 
Ossessionato
Peugeot Looxor
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 3220
Location: KCMO
Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:32 pm linkquote
That is fantastic. I can't wait to see where you put the radiators and other cooling system goodies.

I'd love to see someone make or adapt a 4V head (and corresponding piston) for the air cooled LEADER engine. Maybe make the piston fit the 190 kit since that's another likely modification someone swapping cylinder heads might do.
Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:41 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:41 pm linkquote
Valimagdon wrote:
Did you get to take "Rosebud" out for a spin ever? I'm wondering if using the different final gears makes a difference in performance, positive or negative. Intuition says it would, but I dunno.
Haven't had it to a state where I could take it for a spin. I've got tooth counts of gears from the LX1215, 150, GT200, and GTS as well as the kits that are out there. There is a promising combination in there. An additional factor that helps is that the power and redline on the GT200 is at a much higher RPM than the LX.
⬆️    About 2 years elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:56 pm

Hooked
LX50/150
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Louisville
 
Hooked
LX50/150
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Louisville
Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:56 pm linkquote
Oopsclunkthud,

I see that you have quite a bit of experience with the internals of the transmissions of the gt and lx models and their gear arrangements. Using one of the configs in the cases would it be possible to install a gt rear disc and wheel setup on an LX? I would like the advantages of the disc brake and larger diameter wheel. Thanks for any advice in advance.

Good luck with Rosebud!

Justin
Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:59 pm

Hooked
'80 Bajaj Chetak; '65 Vespa V90; '59 Lambretta Li125
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: St. Louis, MO
 
Hooked
'80 Bajaj Chetak; '65 Vespa V90; '59 Lambretta Li125
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: St. Louis, MO
Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:59 pm linkquote
jkbenn02 wrote:
Oopsclunkthud,

I see that you have quite a bit of experience with the internals of the transmissions of the gt and lx models and their gear arrangements. Using one of the configs in the cases would it be possible to install a gt rear disc and wheel setup on an LX? I would like the advantages of the disc brake and larger diameter wheel. Thanks for any advice in advance.

Good luck with Rosebud!

Justin
Meh, why? The brakes on an LX are already fantastic, and the larger wheel in the back is just gonna look/ride funny w/o a larger wheel in front. Is your rear drum dialed in correctly?
Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:02 pm

Hooked
LX50/150
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Louisville
 
Hooked
LX50/150
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Louisville
Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:02 pm linkquote
I have a 12" MP3 wheel, gt rotor, 4 piston brembo in the front. I would just like to match the wheels (and have 2 - 12" wheels for better handling, etc) and also have rear discs. I am not to fond of the rear drum that's all.
Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:04 pm

Hooked
'80 Bajaj Chetak; '65 Vespa V90; '59 Lambretta Li125
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: St. Louis, MO
 
Hooked
'80 Bajaj Chetak; '65 Vespa V90; '59 Lambretta Li125
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: St. Louis, MO
Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:04 pm linkquote
jkbenn02 wrote:
I have a 12" MP3 wheel, gt rotor, 4 piston brembo in the front. I would just like to match the wheels (and have 2 - 12" wheels for better handling, etc) and also have rear discs. I am not to fond of the rear drum that's all.
Ah, well then.
Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:19 pm

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8445
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8445
Location: Atlanta, GA
Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:19 pm linkquote
Awesome Patrick, keep it up!
Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:52 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:52 pm linkquote
jkbenn02 wrote:
I have a 12" MP3 wheel, gt rotor, 4 piston brembo in the front. I would just like to match the wheels (and have 2 - 12" wheels for better handling, etc) and also have rear discs. I am not to fond of the rear drum that's all.
To change to a 12" rear wheel would move the axle back by about 2". As a result the tire will not clear the back of the frame. This was the primary reason I went with the 10" rear.
⬆️    About 3 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:14 am

Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
 
Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:14 am linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
To change to a 12" rear wheel would move the axle back by about 2". As a result the tire will not clear the back of the frame. This was the primary reason I went with the 10" rear.
Looks like from your pics that you have the 10" wheel converted GT motor with the LX swingarm bolted into the LX.

You did try fitting it before converting to 10", right? How close is it? Might it work with a 110/70 on the 12" wheel? Swingarm shortened by 1/2"?
Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:49 am

Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
 
Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:49 am linkquote
I'm researching 12" rear wheel conversion for the S/LX. Figured I'd post in this thread as it has much related information.

Have a question someone may have already answered. Will the GT rear hub fit LX shaft/splines?
Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:31 am

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:31 am linkquote
To fit the 12 wheel on the leader cases a different gear housing is used. This has the axle aligned with the rear most bearing. This extends the wheel base by about 2 in over the 10 in setup. With the added diameter of the 12 wheel you end up with the rear of the tire being about 3in further back and there's just no room in the LX frame for it.

The splines are also different from the LX to the GT, though the Fly may be the same as the LX. But again you would need the fly gear housing and this would shift the wheel back the 2 in.
Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:20 pm

Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
 
Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:20 pm linkquote
Thanks OCT.

So looks like it's not a parts bin project, knew there was a reason it hadn't been done yet. I'm not giving up though.
Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:48 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:48 pm linkquote
you got me thinking of two options that may work.

GT gear housing with 11in lx front rim (disk brake)
Fly gear housing with 10in lx rear rim (drum brake)

Both these would move the wheel back by ~2in. could be good for high speed... May just fit under there.
Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:59 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2017
Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2017
Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:59 am linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
you got me thinking of two options that may work.

GT gear housing with 11in lx front rim (disk brake)
Fly gear housing with 10in lx rear rim (drum brake)

Both these would move the wheel back by ~2in. could be good for high speed... May just fit under there.
GT gear housing with ET front wheel (10") for the rear disk?
Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:24 am

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:24 am linkquote
scootermarc69 wrote:
GT gear housing with ET front wheel (10") for the rear disk?
That may work, the rear disk on the GT is 220mm, front disk on the ET is 200mm, The LX rim just fits over a 220 disk so the ET rim may not fit.

Also, the rear disk sits more to the center of the rim than the front one. That may make the 220 not fit in the 11in rim as well. In that case you'd need to modify the hub to take the 200mm disk and also use the LX front caliper at the rear.

All this assumes that the wheel clears with the added 2in in the wheelbase, so that would be the first thing to check.
Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:27 pm

Hooked
Black Bess GT200L Vespa ET4, 125cc '02 Green gene
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 280
Location: LDN. GB.
 
Hooked
Black Bess GT200L Vespa ET4, 125cc '02 Green gene
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 280
Location: LDN. GB.
Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:27 pm linkquote
I'm loving the effort and time you're putting in to this match up, which if works could well be ideal modern Vespa, small light(ish) and powerful.
Awaiting the outcome...
⬆️    About 3 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:32 am

Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
 
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:32 am linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
With the spring removed from the rear shock to check travel the engine can be squeezed in mostly. Everything clears at the bottom of travel but at the top there is issues with the valve cover hitting on the internal support of the frame.

I decided to remove it with plans to replace it with one that clears everything.
Is this scooter on the road yet? Great modification!!! 8)
Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:32 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:32 pm linkquote
erich51 wrote:
Is this scooter on the road yet? Great modification!!! 8)
Nope, not even close. It's third in line at the moment.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:49 am

Member
pre leader et4
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Location: sydney
 
Member
pre leader et4
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Location: sydney
⬆️    About 4 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:57 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:57 pm linkquote
I got the motor mount for Rosebud back today. It is a work of art! The point of the new mount was to extend it by 30mm to allow clearance for the exhaust. But as long as this was being done I figured why not get rid of the crappy rubber bushings and use roller bearings as well as gusseting the area where it connects to the motor.

The motor will still be able to pitch up and down relative to the frame but all roll and yaw will be a thing of the past.

Next step, powdercoating.







Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:04 pm

Molto Verboso
LX150 Darling Plum; GTS 250 Dragon Red; Honda Big Ruckus Demented Bastard
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
 
Molto Verboso
LX150 Darling Plum; GTS 250 Dragon Red; Honda Big Ruckus Demented Bastard
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:04 pm linkquote
Interesting theory, of putting bearings in there. I did replace the rubber bushings with Poly bushings from Clause Studio, and that got rid of alot if not all the twist in the swing arm. I am sure we will find out how well it holds up to the vibration and such without the bushings smooting it out a bit. Great project so far, and will look forward to the final bits... !!


Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:42 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2017
Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2017
Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:42 pm linkquote
Looks good. You did have two made up while you were at it, right?
Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:36 am

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:36 am linkquote
The GT/GTS use rollerbearings in the motor mount, I've scavenged the section that mounts in the frame of the GT to have this built.

On the GT there are two sets of roller bearings allowing the point where the motor connects to move up/down and front/back. This movement is then restricted by the rubber donut on the left side.

With the LX I won't have any of the front/back movement and that may add some vibration but I think it will be ok.





Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:33 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8713
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8713
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:33 am linkquote
I'm lovin' this!
Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:40 am

Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
 
Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:40 am linkquote
Progress! Thought this one was dead.

On your mount, would simply notching the LX one for pipe clearance have worked?
Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:50 am

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:50 am linkquote
bluecloud wrote:
Progress! Thought this one was dead.

On your mount, would simply notching the LX one for pipe clearance have worked?
Notching the mount was my first plan but after mapping it out the notch would have gone through the bolt. Figured I could shift the engine back a bit or come up with a mount that bolted in from either side. Shifting it back seemed the easier path.
Sun May 08, 2011 3:17 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Sun May 08, 2011 3:17 pm linkquote
Did a test fit of the mount yesterday, everything fit perfect.



Mon May 09, 2011 9:23 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8713
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8713
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Mon May 09, 2011 9:23 am linkquote
Oo! Oo! Now I'm getting excited!
Mon May 09, 2011 1:14 pm

Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
 
Ossessionato
09 190s taormina
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 2081
Location: Googleville
Mon May 09, 2011 1:14 pm linkquote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
everything fit perfect.
Can't wait to see how you do the cooling sytsem install.
Mon May 09, 2011 2:34 pm

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7878
Location: San Francisco
Mon May 09, 2011 2:34 pm linkquote
bluecloud wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
everything fit perfect.
Can't wait to see how you do the cooling sytsem install.
First round will be to hang if off the back.

Then I'll ditch the tail light and place it flush on the back of the frame. If needed I'll place ducts in the cowls to bring the air in.
  DoubleGood Vespa T-Shirts  

All Content Copyright 2005-2021 by Modern Vespa. All Rights Reserved.

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

Shop on Amazon Smile with Modern Vespa

[ Time: 0.0571s ][ Queries: 15 (0.0322s) ][ Debug on ][ 209 ][ Thing One ]