Modern Vespa

This got buried pretty quick in the General Discussion forum, So I'll just copy it here as well. I think it's worth knowing about.

Earlier this year I asked Greg to make up some urethane swingarm bushings for my LX150. I recently coordinated installing these bushings with a fresh new rear tire. This thread is meant as an introductory and a review.

Any one who has walked up beside an LX and rocked it side to side has probably asked themselves, "Is that right ?". The chassis roll against the engine (on stand) is quite pronounced. Looking closer, it is easy to see the play occurs largely at the rubber swingarm bushings.

Looking at the rear tire wear pattern on the LX, you would also notice the wear pattern barely extends beyond the centermost tread section.

The thought is this, if you can eliminate the excessive chassis roll and get the engine to lean over more in the corners, can you significantly improve tire life by using a greater section of the tread area? Time will tell.

My Pirelli SL38 tire was done at 1900 miles. I've replaced it with another SL38 and will post side by side photos of the wear patterns on both tires at 1900 miles. Stay tuned.

Initial impressions: On the stand, body roll is about half as measured by my naked eye. In fact, it is quite easy to get the scooter to pivot from one leg of the stand to the other, where before the chassis just rocked from side to side while the engine remained still.

At idle, on the stand, I think I've noticed a slight increase in the license plate vibration typical of the LX. Also could hear a vibration from the bottle of spray on sunscreen in my glove box. Nothing alarming, but perceivable.

Off the stand the vibration sound goes away completely and I can not notice any extra vibration.

Now here is the exciting part. On twisty roads, tracking has improved noticeably. No more "marshmallow ride" when going from one turn into another. The two wheels feel like they are on the same line, more like a motorcycle.

For now I am pleased with that alone and if in fact the tire life is extended I will be even more pleased.

Is that Greg Clauss? He makes great stuff. I hope it continues to help the feel and tire wear of your scoots. Keep us updated.

hey bud what are your tire pressures set at?

i don't think stiffing anything will increase tire life. if you are wearing at the middle more, tire pressure might be too high and the tire flares up in the middle and rides in the middle.

I fitted some polyurethane bushes to my PX200. Obtained them from Greg - Claussstudios.com. They made a terrific difference. The PX's tracking was much better than my current GTS250. (But I also had Bitubo shocks front and rear on the PX).

Mike

who is this greg fellow. cause i got bushings on my car and its great. i want some plastic bushings for my wasp.

Sorry. My original post was titled " Clauss Studios urethane swingarm bushings for LX150"

here's the link.
http://www.claussstudios.com/index.html

and I keep the rear tire at 29 psi as recommended.

Great information.
I'm going to order a pair and incorporate installation upon my next tire change.

Thanks!

anything like this for the GTS?

AnnDee
I would email Greg with your inquiry.
He likely makes them already.

Has anyone installed these on a LX?
I'd like to hear what to expect if I try to do it myself.

Thanks.

Bill

Let's get a group purchase going! Surely we can come up with 10+ people wanting to do this... Has anyone talked with Greg yet?

I emailed them and found that bushings for the LX150 run $75 plus $6 shipping. I have not ordered yet. I will when it's time to replace the rear tire.
In the meantime, if a group purchase comes together, I'm in.

On another topic, the owner of the shop I work for rode my LX150 equipped with the Bitubo front shock and was stunned by the ride.
This shock when properly adjusted really makes the scooter feel more 'planted'. You don't have to look out for the bumps and can focus on the road.

I found that the stock LX150 is too cushy, sacrificing tracking for comfort.
Stiffening up the front end and adding dampening makes a more precise ride.

I think these bushings will also stiffen up the rear end..........Improvements are cool indeed!

Bill

I'm still another 600 miles away from my 1900 mile tire comparison, so no comment on that yet. On my recent 700 mile weekender I traded off bikes with the GF and noted that my bike handled much nicer in the twisties and likewise she noted mine seemed much easier for her to take the corners on. I need to get with Greg on a second set for Kims bike. They are definatley doing good things to the handling with no trade offs that I can see. In fact, the bike even seems to float potholes and bumps better.
Glad to see some interest in this thread.

You might ask Patrick Owens (oopsclunkthud) about gts versus lx bushings. I suspect they might be the same thing. He might have insight per his Rosebud gt in lx conversion. Vespa lists the swingarm as a complete unit with bushings, so no part # comparison. If not , you can do what I did. Buy a salvaged swingarm and pivot bolt off "DaBay", remove the bushings, and send it all to Greg for duplication in urethane.

Just emailed about GTS bushings. I have been looking for ways to get my GTS to track better all around. That is my one big complaint with the scoot, that it wallows WAY too much, and takes so much rider input to coax it around a corner at speed, especially long sweepers where the swingarm just walks its way around....

Yes very much intrest ... everything you have said about the bushings is great and makes me want to put a pair on 3 months ago .. I will be ordering a pair for my lx150 as well. Would have done so today, forgot to call Greg Clauss during work hours, and did not see an order form at the online site. It is a kind of call to order thing from what I got out of it. I also did not see a specific set for the LX150 unless they areconsidered to be a small frame. Sorry i do not know if it is or not, I guess I need to go through that thread with the history of Vespas so I know what models are what. I just know what I can see in pictures and what I have seen on the show floor. As in GTS versis the GTV. Which when I can add I will be getting a GTV, I really like the looks of them.

Has anyone gotten the Shock Mount that Greg came up with?? I have not checked to see just how the upper arm of the rear shock is attached, looks like a rounded of shaft stuck into a cup of rubber probably.

Email works best with Greg. He seems to check frequently. The LX bushings are not listed on his site and I may have the only set as far as I know. He does have the tooling, and as soon as some orders come in I'm sure he'll make up a batch and get them on the site. The upper shock mount you are seeing is for vintage largeframes and unlikely to fit or be of benefit on a newer machine, but hey, who knows? Place an order by email, expect a bit of a wait as I think he was waiting for feedback before making up a batch. Tell him you heard they were rad. they kinda are.

Will do !! pronto... Thanks for the info on the Shock Mount..

I'm in for an lx150 if you guys do a group purchase

I emailed Gary and he replied, with something like. "yes i can make you a lx engine kit they are $75 and $6 shipping in the USA" So it sounds like he is tooled up for it, He probably already made up a bunch when he did the 1st one for Scootermarc69.. So I am calling before 3pm today to get my set ordered.
So ccfdscooter go ahead and give him a call to order your set. (760-949-6659)
I am not going to wait for a tire change to put them in... I guess I better study the shop manual..

The design of all the swingarm/motor mounts other than the ET/LX are not that bad. The only bushing in them only allows the motor to move within the plain of the bike. There is a puck of rubber that limits this so a larger or stiffer puck could help. Any other flex is not in the bushings.

I know it, but everywhere the rear end is joined to the body is a bit squirrel-y so anywhere i can get a percentage of tightening I will go for it. The shock towers are especially gnarly, allowing lots of left-right motion that does not instill confidence at speed....

Just ordered swingarm bushings for my LX150.
They ship Wednesday.
In a week or so, I'll do the 2K oil change, replace the Pirellis with Zippys and install the bushings.
The front tire is 50% while the rear is about 75% worn. I understand that this is about right for the soft-compound tires. I also understand that the Zippys will go twice as far.

I use my scoot to commute 120 miles a week. My speed is usually between 40 and 50mph.
It's important to me that the LX handles at it's full potential because it's gnarly out there.

Will keep you informed.

Bill
Black LX150. Bitubo front shock. Euro conversion to front signals. Small hole through baffles. Runs Great and gets 75-plus mpg.

As I checked into what was involved in replacing the rubber bushings with the ones from Claus studios, after I got them. Then had to find a good torque wrench, and at that point decided to go ahead and wait for the rear tire change. I have just put 4050 miles on my tires and the rear is way wore down, and I was getting very nervous those last 500 miles or so. As I started taking things apart, I came across a few problems, the swing arm bolt has it's threads stripped out, my guess is that it was cross threaded at the factory. So I will have to get a new one. But now I can not get the old bushings out of the swing arm and I have not seen any thing on here about how to do that???
Any help will be great!! I have tried to wiggle them out, but no movement out of the swing arm. I have put the end of the bushing rod into a vice and use a rubber dead blow hammer to knock them out.. No luck there. I do not see just how to get them out.. Looking at the new bushings, I would think they should just slide out, but I guess the rubber has been in there long enough to stick to the metal.. any help on how to get them out ??

Try a "drawbolt". This is a kind of puller -- often homemade -- made of a length of threaded rod at least twice as long as the housing the bushing is inserted in. On one end, you use a piece of tubing small enough in diameter to push against the bushing as a nut on the threaded rod is tightened. On the other end, you use a larger piece of tubing big enough to bear against the housing. You'll need appropriate nuts and washers on both ends, obviously.

As I checked into what was involved in replacing the rubber bushings with the ones from Claus studios, after I got them. Then had to find a good torque wrench, and at that point decided to go ahead and wait for the rear tire change. I have just put 4050 miles on my tires and the rear is way wore down, and I was getting very nervous those last 500 miles or so. As I started taking things apart, I came across a few problems, the swing arm bolt has it's threads stripped out, my guess is that it was cross threaded at the factory. So I will have to get a new one. But now I can not get the old bushings out of the swing arm and I have not seen any thing on here about how to do that???
Any help will be great!! I have tried to wiggle them out, but no movement out of the swing arm. I have put the end of the bushing rod into a vice and use a rubber dead blow hammer to knock them out.. No luck there. I do not see just how to get them out.. Looking at the new bushings, I would think they should just slide out, but I guess the rubber has been in there long enough to stick to the metal.. any help on how to get them out ??

1. Obtain the following: Straight dental pick tool; 1/2"x 24" threaded rod and 3 bolts for the rod; four 3/4" washers; two 1/2" washers; two 1"x2" galvanized nipples from plumbing section; WD40; lithium grease or dish soap.

2. Put swingarm in a vise.

3. Use pick to separate bushing from swing arm enough to get a few drops of WD40 in there. do this in six or so locations around the bushing.

4. Use the 1/2" threaded rod inserted into the tube of the bushing as a lever and pry in a circular motion, working WD40 around. At the same time pull outward while circling and prying to pull bushing out.

5. Once one bushing is out, you can oil up the other socket and simply knock that bushing out with a drift. You will find a shim at the base of each bushing. If i was to do this again I would leave them out for the urethane bushings. I found they kept the inside ends of the tube from touching and thus requiring me to really pry the swingarm back into the frame.

6. Clean the penetrating oil from the swingarm and lightly grease the new bushings with lithium grease or dish soap.

7. Use treaded rod, washers, bolts and nipples as a tool to set the bushing back into the swingarm. In the photo I've improvised the nipples with a spark plug tool and a 1 1/4" nipple I had on hand. The idea is to press on the bushing and not the tube. The washers also help prevent the nipples from biting into the bushing

8. Tubes should touch each other, but I found the shims prevented them from touching with the urethane bushings thus making it a bitch to pry back into the frame. Like I said, I'd leave em out if I did it again.(and I would do it again, they work great!)

WOW that is great, it is just what I needed to know THANKS!! I have a 7 inch long pick, that should work great for getting some WD-40 down next to the bushings. So I will work on that tomorrow.

I ordered a replacement swing arm bolt and nut from local Vespa dealer because the online supplier wanted almost $10 in shipping, that is more than the bolt and nut together...

I could not find my WD40 so tried soapy water and it worked just fine. I did use my ice pick to work the water down into the swing arm, and break loose the ruber from the inside. It walked right out of the swing arm with that circular motion just like you said.
I got a replacement front swing arm bold ordered, but it is going to be weeks. So I ground off the messed up threads and used my tap & Die set to cut new threads and got a new smaller bolt. I think I know now why the threads were messed up. It is tricky to get the bolt back in, lining it up through both bushing shafts without useing a hammer. The real fun was getting the back of the swing arm to line back up with the bushinged holes. As mine was over an inch infront of the holes. Ended up jacking the soot up with a floor jack then forcing the front wheel back down, that got the engine to swing forward enough to get screw drivers into the holes and swing arm so that I could pry it into place enough to slide the rear bolt through. Took lots of fiddling with to get things to line up right but She is all back together and took a quick run around the block. The poly bushing work great, the new tire felt odd but I only ran around the block. Now to wait for a dry day so I can safely wear off the preservatives and not have a slippery tire.

Thanks for your help and quick answer to my problem.

Just did mine.

Painless install thanks to the excellent tutorial by scootermarc.

A few notes:

1) Did not leave out the "shims" as suggested. Measured everything carefully and determined they are necesssary to center bushings in tube. Tight squeeze back into frame, but doable.

2) Inspect mount tube before pressing new bushes. Mine had excess weld that would have prevented install. Cleaned up with Dremel.

Just got my two sets the other day (for my kitted '07 LX150 and my '11 LXV150ie). Now I just have to find time to install them.

Where did you get the bushings? I contacted Class Studios a few months ago and was told that they are no longer producing them for the lx/et.

Directly from Clauss. I had heard the same thing from folks on this forum, but I simply placed an order and they filled it. Took several weeks, though.

I suspect they've had enough interest lately that they started making them again.

Thanks for letting me know. I'll contact Claus. I'll let you know how it goes.

FYI, I emailed Greg this morning and received a reply a few hours later, he has Vespa150 bushings. I placed the order today. Looking forward to the feel of a new and improved Vespa.

Cheers,

Rob

These are really nice, no more "hinge" in the middle. Make the rear suspension work like it should.

Trade-off is a bit more vibe, can feel it in the bars. I actually like it, gives the scoot a more aggressive feel.

Used to be afraid to lean it, now I look for excuses.

Do you have Bar-end weights to lessen the vibration ? And how much do I have to break-down rear end. muffler - tire - drop engine ???

Yeah, didn't think about weights, might work. Really not bad though, just noticable. I did the 190 kit at the same time so not sure how much is mounts vs motor.

Dropping the motor is really easy -- electrical connections, throttle cables, fuel line, brake cable and shock. Roll it out on the wheel. Hard part is figuring out how to support motorless scoot.

Thank you Blue.and Silver, marc and et alis, or is it alia? now to accumulate the tools and bits I don't have yet. Eventually I will meet Messieurs Bitubo, Malossi, and Polini, hope I'll be ready for'em. Kilroy Was Here. I know "and et" is a double conjuntion???

Standard plastic milk crate works nicely.

The 1/2 in. rod did not fit the old bushings or the new ones, the m12 rod that will support them in the swingarm fits like butter.
The 1/2 in. rod looks like it should fit, but I'm not going to force it. I'll just bring in a bushing and get the closest threaded rod that fits. I still need to put the new bushings in the arm.
Oh yeah, I need a spring puller.
Thank You Blue - I put nickles in the spring to get it off.