Modern Vespa

I have noticed a slight rear tire lean on my 1980 P200e, is it the shock? or does anyone have any idea? The scooter when I bought it is in really nice shape and there is no signs of any accidents - it just seems strange to me.

Thanks for any suggestions
Bo

sounds terminal to me, The best solution would be to sell it to me to make all your problems go away, hows $500. sound




sorry I don't really have any clue but pics would help for all to see and diagnose from

tire put on backwards?

Here is a picture - it was painted this weekend - still need to mount the new fender though. I was standing behind it and noticed the lean, it looks a little more exaggerated in the picture than it actually is - the garage space is tight, but it is noticeable - what do you guys think - my dad thinks it might be the extender for the rear suspension.

is the side car hooked up to the P ? if so that is what is probably showing the lean on the scoot.

Mine has the same lean. I was wondering if it was that I put the tire on the wrong way.

I also found this online.

http://books.google.com/books?id=hoICGdQLHPsC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=vespa+p+rear+tire+lean&source=web&ots=zIIPUlCZgI&sig=sx5rA3mRoRQ-FJeUF2B-P8Tl_1E&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPA63,M1

A bad engine mount can make the tire lean outward to the right and wear the tire. Not sure what that will mean for me if that is the case .

it is hooked up to it - but the scooter body is straight up and down - maybe I should disconnect and see if it looks normal. I am having a guy come over soon to align everything because I get some steering wobble at times with the current setup.

Thanks!

Cool thanks man, I will get with Scooterworks and order a new mount and shocks - unless someone has a set of P shocks they want to sell me?

Thanks!

I thought I was seeing things with my p200e. I do notice that when you rev up in nuetral that the scooter moves in a downward motion. Is this normal?

Vintage Vespas have a slight tendency to lean to the right side because of the motor (not small bodied Vespas), but that is a little more than Ive ever seen, I would guess you are correct in changing the motor mount and shock, maybe the motor lean over the years has cause that.

Good luck, P series Vespas rock,

Manny

1) Actually, small bodies also lean a little when riding

2) Your static tire lean, even if it's accentuated by the photos, is all wrong. I've never seen anything like it.

does anyone think by having and driving with the side car increased the forces on the rear hub/drive and has worn the bearings/bushings causing the angle on the rear wheel

I wouldnt think so, it would seem to me the side car would fight the lean, opinion.

Manny

I dont agree, I had a 90 sport and I never noticed any lean. The small body sport & primavera has the motor right under the seat, hated wrenching on the carb on that scoot.
Back when scooter racing was big in LA, most racing scooters were Lambys and primaveras.

Even my 59 allstate leaned like the P.

Manny

The same question was asked recently on another forum and below is one of the answers and solutions. Hope it proves helpful.



Problem:

I noticed the rear tire and engine were sitting very crooked on the bike. This was causing uneven tire wear and also for the tire rub on the rear shock and the clutch housing.

Cause:

A few years back my oil tank got cracked and slowly leaked two-stroke oil into the body of the bike. Naturally, this oil managed to seep out every pore and seam in the frame and get all over everything. Quite a bit of the oil probably found it's way into the swing arm, where it soaked into the swing arm bushings and of course degraded the rubber, causing the engine to not be supported properly and hang crooked.

Solution:

Replace swing arm bushings (easier said than done).

Procedure:

This job was a real pain in the neck but it shouldn't have been. Learn from my mistakes and you should have your bushings replaced in no time at all.

Tools required: Socket set, box wrench set (10 - 15 mm and a 22 mm socket for pivot bolt, adjustable crescent wrench, easy out tool for 1/2" pipe, and special bushing installer tool (see below)

Step 1: Place a 2x4 under the kickstand to lift the front tire off the ground a little.

Step2: Support the rear of the bike by removing the cowls and mudguard and lifting the rear of the bike onto a milk crate or step stool of the appropriate height. The idea is to get the rear wheel off the ground about 2 inches.

Step 3: Remove kickstart lever, exhaust assembly, and loosen clutch and rear brake cables.

Step 4: Get a regular automobile jack and a block of wood about 4 inches square or so. Place the jack under the end of the swing arm where the pivot bolt goes through and run it up so that it is just holding the block of wood against the swing arm.

Step 5: Loosen and remove the pivot bolt and nut. This may take some doing if they haven't been removed in a while. You may need to adjust the tension on the jack to get the bolt to come out.

Step 6: Slowly lower the jack so that the swing arm is gently lowered out of the bike. It may take a little persuasion to loosen the bushing ends from the frame of the bike. If done properly, the engine should pivot on the rear shock and the swing arm should drop down, exposing the ends of the bushings.

Step 7: Using your properly sized easy out tool (one of these: http://www.ted-kyte.com/3D/Pictures/Easy%20Out.jpg), remove both bushings from the bike. This will require a bit of grunting, sweating, cursing, and twisting. If you don't get it right away it's probably because you weren't holding your mouth just right. Keep the washers that are in the swing arm behind the bushings.

Step 8: After cleaning the swing arm inner of old oil, grit, rubber and whathaveyou, you are ready to install the new bushings. To do this you need to make a bushing press tool. I made mine out of a 1/2"-13 x 12" carriage bolt, but if I had to do it again, I would have used all-thread rod. Get about 12 or so inches of 1/2"-13 all thread rod (or equivalent), two jam nuts to fit, and quite a few 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" flat washers. Replace the washers that go behind the bushings and put the new bushings in place. Run the all-thread rod through both bushing rods (same as the pivot bolt goes through), and a few of the 3/4" washers followed by the 5/8" and finally 1/2" washers and jam nuts so that when you tighten the jam nuts down, the force is applied to the rubber bushings evenly. Proceed to tighten the jam nuts and the bushing should press home. This may require a little adjustment in tension on either side to get them seated evenly and properly. I didn't, but you may be able to either soak the bushings in warm water or use a little vaseline or spit to lubricate the bushings so they slide home easier.

Step 9: Jack up the swing arm back into place. You probably didn't get the bushings pressed exactly all the way home, so you may need to use a vice to compress the bushing ends 1/4" or so to fit into the frame. Clean and re-grease the pivot bolt and install. Tighten bolt to specified torque. Remove jack and reinstall exhaust and kickstart lever, and re-attach brake and clutch cables.

Step 10: Inspect and enjoy your much improved handling and comfy ride!

As Breezer mentioned, because of the design of the bike, the engine will hang a little to the left when it is on the stand, but it squares up when you are sitting on it. If the tire is rubbing on anything, or you notice uneven tread wear, or the lean is more than just a degree or two, then you should consider replacing the swing-arm bushings.

I second the above...replace the motor mounts first...

Your shock could be fine.


And with that degree of lean, those mounts are going to look REAL funky in there - not centered at all.... it should be glaringly obvioous something is wrong.

Thanks so much for all of the great info guys, I really appreciate it. I will get right on it and report back, maybe this will help with the sidecar induced wobble I am experiencing as well.

Thanks again, Bo

They all (vintage and modern) seem to favor one side or the other. (Could be the rider too....especially since it's election-year )

Good one Matt.

So I stopped by Mossimos Vespa in Costa Mesa. Nice shop although I didn't get to talk with him as he was with another customer. I did get the pleasure of talking with one of his groupies and older Italian guy who told me he just liked to hang out there at the shop. I asked him about my P200E 1980 and about how while on its stand the rear tire was leaning to the right. He said that happened to him once and the whole motor blew apart. He said the main bearings were worn out and that I should bring mine in to have it rebuilt. I told him I was from northern CA a little far away. Then he tried to sell me some mirrors which I already had. I wanted to stay a while longer and talk with the owner but I felt like I was getting a snow job and left. I need a mechanic in Sacramento.

you could always check for rear end bearing play on your own ..free of charge.

Jack up the ass of the frame ...put it on a car jack stand so the rear wheel is free-spinning.

You can probably shake the wheel at this point and see if there's any play. If you want to go further, remove the rear wheel ...then the center cap, cotter pin, and castelated nut ... then pull the whole splined rear hub off of the axle.

spin the axle... work it around with your hand. Does there seem like play in the axle? I would think it would have to be pretty severe and noticeable if it's causing rear tire lean.

Thanks, I'll check it this weekend.

You may want to consider urethane parts from :

http://www.claussstudios.com/id40.html




Eric can probably tell you if the p-px ones fit the p200e

cheers

ok guys, thanks for all of the great advice. I just replaced my front shock, the front steering bearings and the engine mounts this morning - and it worked very well. I took a ride with the sidecar and did not get the wobble that I used to have. It is super tight and nice - just the way it should be.

Thanks again, Bo