Modern Vespa

Well, a couple of months ago I asked you guys your opinion of if I should buy an S or a Gt. My decision needed to be postponed. Soon I will be ready. I had decided on a GT and then I became intriqued with the Stella. I also know a place close to me where I could by a new PX as well as a Stella. The Stella fits my body well (6"2 and 200#). I will be selling my car and using this for my everyday vehicle, though I'll still have the use of a car when I need it. Looking at the Stella I can see that their "fit" and attention to detail is not quite that of Vespa. Is the PX really any better, especially for the extra dough? The GT still beckons me but with the accessories I would like (windscreen, floormat and topcase) it is a stiff $7400 out the door. The Stella would be about 3G less. I live in a semi-rural area between Baton Rouge and New Orleans but may move to rural Illinois. I do like the idea of shifting, the Stella seems to fit my body better than the GT. The GT is probably more versatile. I'm a bit perplexed.

What do you guys think?

If you are trying to replace the car, the ability to mount a waterproof topcase to the GT might sway you in that direction (plus the pet carrier). You could even add fabric panniers for a trip to the grocery store.

The Stella/PX has virtually no real built in storage. You can add a chrome front and rear rack but it would (IMHO) look a little goofy with a modern topcase attached to it, so you are limited to leather bags, wicker baskets, or bungee-cording stuff on.

You are asked about two considerably different categories of scooter, and the answer to your question depends on the use you will put the scooter to. For example, in terms of top speed, the GT is advertised at a 20 mph higher top end.

The debate will go on and on about needing to be prepared to do "more maintenance" on the PX than a modern Vespa. This, of course, is based on anecdote more than any real Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) information. Few people take the time to report another trouble free day using their scooter. It is the exception that is more commonly mentioned on the web. I would be well over the 1500 post mark if I reported my problem free days (100%) since buying my current PX 150. And, since US Vespa owners tend to be tinkerers, one could ask if some of the maintenance needs were self initiated or resulting from a previous tinker.

Power and speed aside, some will speak of auto versus manual trans. The only time this has ever really been of impact on me was during our ride in the Italian mountains, and this is such a unique situation it is really a non-issue. Now, in the 50+ years I have been licensed to drive, I have only owned 2 auto trans cars, so shifting is the norm. I have owned manual Vespas continuously since 1964. I have several years experience with automatic scoots. In the final analysis, I really find no real difference in overall riding pleasure, just a difference in the controls useage on the ride.

As to PX vs Stella, now you are comparing two scoots that are in the same category and result from the same basic design drawings. As a Vespa owner of 45 years standing, obviously I have my personal biases in this match up. There does appear to be some quality differences. Stella owners do refer to 2005 as being a less than perfect year for quality, for example. But that is not based on any MTBF info. While there are some who say, "Why pay $xxxx more for a brand name?", there is indeed more than a brand name involved. Still, only the buyer can decide if that additional "more" is worth the "$xxxx" more.

Do what makes you happy.

Al

Yes, very little "built in" storage.

I have a GIVI 35 liter top case on the rear of my PX and it doesn't look "goofy". While the fold down rack puts a top case a bit further to the rear than desirable, there are a couple of fixed racks, including one specifically for a top case, that nestle a top case on just right. Further, with a top case such as the GIVI, you can readily pop the case off and use the rack for bulkier items that call for the proper Vespa techniqe of bungies and milk cartons. We are talking Vespa, here, Markster, not BMW.

$3000 for a pet carrier is hardly a convincing argument. There are many more compelling issues in favor of the GT, if it is what the driving conditions call for.

Al

Further explaining, I will probably rarely ride 2-up. I am not particularly mechanically blessed. One of the big draws of the GT is that it has the power to get one out of a sticky situation. I don't feature myself zipping down the interstate @ 75 mph. I'm the type that would be on back roads. Interstingly, I found the stella/px roomier for driver comfort than the GT. A downside to the Stella/px is that I think a windscreen on one looks rather foolish. A windscreen (lookswise) seems to fit the GT better. A windscreen to me is a practical accessory. I know I'm explaining a lot of disjointed feelings, but if you have thouights, I would appreciate hearing them. Is the PX worth the $1200 over the Stella? I tend to doubt it. A Stella I looked at the other day at the dealer already had the paint flaking of the the "4" on the gear shift. I realize that can be easily touched up but why should you have to do that with a brand new scoot? Vespas are beautifully detailed but the snobby part of it really is of no importance to me. Yeah, I guess I'm betwixt and between in my thinking

Thanks for your time!

John

If I buy a Stella/PX I would probably put a Prima roll bag on it. They detach too. They also seem to fit the bike well...yes, I know they don't lock. Somehow I doubt Vespa and Givi top cases are very impregnable.

John

I cannot speak authoritatively about the quality differences between Vespa and Stella. Anecdotally, Vespa seems to win on that one, as I have read items about bearing quality and the like that pertain to the heart of the machines. But again, anecdotes, not "real" data.

Windscreen aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder, just like Markster's comment about top cases.

If you feel more confident on the more powerful machine, that's a reasonable consideration. Especially if it will be your main means of transportation. My scootering over the years restricted me to lower speed limit roads. My beloved 125 cc 1962 VNB was a 40 mph machine, but I was able to get 41 years of fun and practical use out of it by keeping to roads where such a machine was appropriate. I was a serving member of the military, and moved regularly, but wherever I lived, I found a way to use the VNB. But then, I always had a car for when such was appropriate.

In short, if you are asking PX/Stella vs GT, that's one issue. It is a totally different issue than PX vs Stella.

Al

It is often said, "A lock is primarily a means to keep an honest person honest".

Top cases put items out of sight and out of mind. Since an attempt to break into one in a public place is somewhat noticeable, that is also a deterrent. Pet carriers are no different. On our recent tour of Italy, we never left our passports, for example, in any of our "lockable storage" when away from the scoots. Never did have any issues of security, however. The GIVI is handy because it can be easily detached and has a carrying handle like recess that allows it to be used almost like a small item of luggage. GIVI also makes a small "roll aboard" piece of luggage that mounts on their standard plate.

Al

Al,

Thanks for your thoughts again. I guess what it comes down to is if I want to part with the extra $ for the GT. Given our failing economy, there's good reason not to. That being said, the GT is probably a better overall everyday machine, if it is going to be my prime mode of transportation and my one and only scoot. Also, if this whole "scoot" experiment for me turns out to be short-lived, the GT would probably be more easily sellable and have a better resale value. My heart goes to the Stella, although all the chrome racks on those machines used to make them more practical in terms of stowage, I think kind of clunk them up.

John

So, you obviously like the GIVI case over the Vespa one?

John-

I have no experience with the Vespa case. I bought the GIVI(while still living in the US) because it was available at the time, and actually for my Derbi. When we arrived here and I found and bought the PX 150, that became my scoot of choice, and I simply moved the GIVI to it. The Derbi is now for house guests. (Funny how many folks want to see you when you move to a Greek Island!)

Lastly, don't put too much credence in "resale value" or ability as a buying decision item. The PX (probably more so than the Stella) will most likely hold its value as well as the GT, if not more so. Remember, the PX is somewhat of a classic, and the 2005 (US model) is the end of the line for the States, and two years short of the end of the line for the world. Folks will be able to buy a new GT or GT equivalent next year. Not so a PX. I had no trouble selling my 1962 VNB for a reasonable price in 2005, even though it was due for an engine rebuild.

Now, if you are trying to screw up the courage to buy a GT, then simply find a way to honestly do so within your own financial circumstances and go for it. Be bold enough to admit that there is an emotional component in a purchase like this. Similarly, don't overextend yourself with a bunch of cherry picked "rational" items to spend more than you can really afford. All three of the scooters in question can serve you well, if used as intended by the makers.

Good luck and good shopping

Al

John-

FWIW I bought a Stella earlier in the year as primary transportation and it has been virtually trouble free. As was stated, rarely does anyone write in and say 'wow, another perfect day on my trusty, reliable scooter' - we all write in when something goes wrong I ended up with the Stella because I liked the styling and was too cheap to pony up for the PX - as stupid as this sounds I also liked the stella colors better. You'll have to weigh what will work for you, but the my Stella has been a reliable daily driver. I have managed to put groceries and other small items on it - and with the money I saved I bought a 1971 Vespa Rally project!

wow, i just had another perfect day on my trusty, reliable stella.

Quote:
"The GT still beckons me but with the accessories I would like (windscreen, floormat and topcase) it is a stiff $7400 out the door."

swoffles: That sounds way too high for a GT with those accessories. (like, around $500-plus too high) Have you shopped more than one dealer?

Re. The Stella vs the PX: I've read a lot of posts on other sites concerning the Stella from their owners who say you will have to replace all of the cables due to the low quality ones provided by the factory and tweak a few other things that will cost you some time & money whereas the PX will be ready to ride when you take delivery without having to change anything or spend any more money to make it reliable.

XLR8,

Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I exaggerated the price of the GT200. I pulled out the quote and it is $7113 out the door. That breaks down to $5299 for the scoot, $315 for freight, $150 for uncrating, $82 doc fee, $38.50 license plate, $4 for state tire fee, $10 for temp tag fee, $350 for Vespa top case, $50 for floormat, $175 for 3/4 smoke windshield and, last but not least, total tax of $544.75. To my knowledge, that is the only GT200 for sale at a dealer in Louisiana...we have two...NO and Baton Rouge. I also have a home in Illinois and a dealer nearby has one as well. I haven't inquired there yet about price. I know the msrp of the scoot is the same.

There is a "new" '05 PX in Illinois for I think $4200 msrp and same dealer has a couple of stellas at their retail of $3500. The NO Genuine dealer has Stellas on "sale" for $3200. The price out the door for one of those without any accessories is a little under 4K.
They definitely make it an "a la carte" transaction.
Thanks for the input about the PX and the Stella. That was one of the first good reasons I've heard to explain the price difference between the two.

John

That explains the difference.
*Your sales tax is a couple of hundred higher than I estimated and your actual out the door price is $300 lower than you had posted.

If you have the extra money and you plan on keeping the scooter for a long time, IMHO...........the GT would give you the most long-term riding pleasure.

Whatever you decide, ENJOY it and ride it like you stole it!

Why the pic of Al Bundy?

Mine was $6779 out the door and I got a topcase and a cover.

EDIT...sorry, I have confused threads. I thought it was a GT thing.

Carry on...

i'm 6-foot, 250 lbs.....my GT200 fits me well. I love my 200 w/topcase...if i were riding between BR/NO, i'd go for the 200. the GT is quiet as well.

i also have a motorcycle.....i prefer the mindlessness of no shifting on an automatic scoot.

swoffles: Since you asked.............
I loved the shtick and tongue in cheek humor that was played by the character Al Bundy on "Married With Children". Even though it's been off the air for quite a while, I still get a smile on my face when I think of ole' Al Bundy................the consummate loser.
(Of course, Al Bundy would have ridden a Chinese scooter because he never could have afforded a Vespa.)

Me too, and I must add, I can fit 10X more stuff in my Stella glovebox than I could in that of my ET4.

Al Bundy would buzz along on a Tank. The little town in Illinois (pop 2300)where I live has a car dealership that also purveys Tanks. This is a little corn town in central Illinois and it's interesting how many people are buzzing around on scoots. Most of them are Tanks. There's even a pair of GTS in town. America is a changin'.

Thanks for your feedback. I now am thinking seriously between the GT200 and the PX 150. The Stella has slipped to 3rd. I will say it is interesting how much more expensive the Vespa chrome accessories are for the PX than the ones are for the Stella...and they are identical. I wonder just how much of the bill is to have the Italian word for wasp associated with it?

John

what accessories are you looking at? they're usually the exact same thing.



most all of that is px stuff.

If it makes you feel better the Indian chrome rusts really, really fast.

the parts I'm looking at are the front chrome fender protector as well as the cowl protectors and the different racks. They are advertised as being made by Cupini...Italian-enough sounding, but Got knows where they are actually made.

John

i see. well, if it makes you feel any better, the rusted stuff on my et4 is all cupinni

One thing to give some thought to Swoffles; If you buy a PX or a Stella to try out and after a year or two and you go to sell it to get a GT, the PX will be easier to sell, and bring a better price as well. The Stella will eventually be just another used Indian scoot like a bajaj. No way around the fact it's a look alike. The PX does have a cult following, for a reason, and as of now they are destined to be collectors pieces. They flat out will not be made anymore.

Having said that, I have put 12,000 miles on my 05 PX150 in the last couple years. No problems at all exept for a small oil leak around the sight glass. No broken cables, not even a fouled plug. On the other hand someone of my aqaintance bought a Stella. He has not gotten the trouble free service out of it, and at a bit over 5,000 miles the engine went. I mean like catastrphic failure. My PX is running better than ever. The poor guy now has a Indian scoot with a blown motor.

Buy the PX, treat it nice, don't mod it exept for sito plus and upjeted carb, and don't let a shade tree mechanic work on it. If you don't like it after a year or so, you'll get most of your money back from a cult member, so you can get a GT. If you to keep it, you'll have a very cool scoot that is way more reliable than people give it credit for, easier to work on, and WAY cheaper to maintain and do things yourself. My brother in law has a GTs, and the maintance costs are more than a Harley.

Besides, its neat having a spare tire to add into the rotation.

Just my two cents here but I have to disagree. The Stella will likely get a higher resale margin versus the original price over the PX. This summer there were folks selling 05's for what they paid for them new. The same was not true of the PX series.

Stellas are more of a hit-and-miss over the PX's though. There are some folks who honestly have had no or little problems. I've had few, and the've been minor. One thing's for sure, the gauge of steel in the Stella is definitely thicker!

Not to knock the PX, it is an awesome and beautiful ride!

i agree, the stella will probably have a higher resale value. i think it's because of the lower msrp.

i mean, no one is going to buy a $3200 stella and resell it for $1,000 a few years later. but, a ton of people buy a $4800 px and sell it for $3000 a few years later.

they can only depreciate so much a percentage of their original msrp, and since the stella comes in way lower on the front end, it's going to hit the back end at a much higher number.

have you considered buying a used GT?
i got one for 3800 with a topcase, crashbars, kickstand and euro tail light. and just bought a virtually brand new GTS for 5000 with topcase, floormat and windsheild.
i don't ride on the highway and everytime i ride i'm glad i didn't go with a 150. even on backroads i cruise at about 65 and hills are never a problem. and i mean the long and windy back roads where the speed limit is 55-60 anyway. i can't imagine topping out at 50-55.

Yeah, I would have no problem buying a used GT. The issue has been in the markets I live close to there have been no used Gts for sale...only GTSs and GTVs.

John

The GTV is gorgeous and was a great deal, but that beautiful leather seat it has pushes the driver forward...not great for a tall guy.

Swoffles, if you're looking for a car replacement, then in my opinion the only option for you is the Modern Vespa, the GT.

I only both a classic geared scooter and a GT. The GT is the one I use for everyday commuting.

The geared scooter are real fun and whilst many will say that they're just as reliable as the Twist and Go's, I'd suscribe to that view on the newer PX's, they're not in the same league when it comes to everday use.

Let me ask you a question, do you drive an automatic car or one with stickshift? Driving a car with a stickshift is great fun, but not necessarily what you'd choose for everyday use, especially if you commute.

A GTS 250 will suit just as well as GT200, but maybe there's a licensing issue here that I'm not familiar with.

I'd deffo go for the GT/GTS for your requirements.

Thanks Camber. I honestly like the GT over the GTS but would buy a GTS if a GT was not available. I like the GT's lack of a partially-digital dash. I know that's a small thing, but you should have what you want when you pony up for a top end Vespa. I would love to have both a PX and a GT but that is a bit too frivolous for me right now. I am leaning toward the GT...at least for the moment. Most of my cars have had standard transmissions and I feel shifting gears is just plain fun. Another guy mentioned that on a PX you'll basically be in top gear after 30 mph. I wonder what type of pickup a PX has above 30 mph? I am serious about replacing my car. Another plus for the modern Vespas is that they run a lot cleaner than the old 2-stroke design. A plus for the Stella over the PX is that it appears the mileage is about 50% better. I realize the GT or GTS would be a better everyday scoot for a variety of reasons. I may be moving to the midwest and with colder weather there, the argument of going with a GTS to get the fuel injection makes some sense. The idea of layng out about $8000 for a scooter out the door kind of blows me away. Call me old-fashioned. I'm still thinking....

Swoffles

if you think that much money for 1 is bad, wait till you have a garage full.

Don't get me thinking that way. Please. The last thing I need is to begin "collecting" scoots...

it will happen. it always does.

my opinion, as I have a p200e and a gt200 - for everyday riding, I know that the gt200 will get me there - the p200e will usually but sometimes it can have a temper. I really think that the previous posts are right - if you are one the fence, you will get both.

In terms of performance there is no contest between a GT and PX/Stella. The GT has more power, delivered more progressively and is much, much smoother. The 4-stroke engine doesn't suffer from headwinds or hills in the same way as a 2-stroke does.

The Stella is giving better gas mileage due to the fact that it's not at the same level of tune as a PX, which will result in slower performance.

Top speed on a GT200 is about 70-75mph, top end on a PX is about 65.

For you, for everyday, definitely a modern vespa. But if you're conflicted, you WILL end up with both.

I found my new '05 PX150 with the obsolete 3-port engine and the catalyzed exhaust to be a real DOG. Even when adding a Sito+ exhaust and re-jetting properly, it never saw 60 MPH. I was quite tickled to dump it in 400 mi./3 months for a $1200.00 loss.

OBTW: Currently, my Stella gets 85 mpg and often sees 65 mph.

you sold a px for a stella?



that's like trading in a real blonde for a bottle blonde.