Modern Vespa

This is an idea that I - what if you took out the plastic underseat helmet bucket and lowered the whole scooter by about 6 inches.

Why?

So that you could put both feet flat and firm on the ground.

Just shave the seat

If you lower your scooter, it will handle like crap and you will probably wreck it within the first 50 miles. Messing with the suspension height on any scooter or motorcycle is very dangerous and not a very smart thing to do.

Shave the seat if you want it to sit lower.

Geez and then short people could ride.... whats next women voting????

JK JK JK JK

1. shave the seat down...
2. taller shoes, no joke
3. put your left foot down

just put on loads of weight so that you compress the suspension more when you sit on it

Yes, I agree, thanks for the advice about messing with the suspension - that is best left to those with a working knowledge of Hook's law and are familiar with how to apply damping ratio and first order time constant, spring rate constant, Young's modulus with the Poisson ratio of the material - stuff like that is needed to turn a seemingly ordinary piece of curly metal into a finely tuned and expertly crafted spring. So I would either, not change the suspension at all - just the custom line to the body work or apply the correct engineering principles taking into account the reduced weight and lowered centre of gravity as part of the project.

As for lowering the centre of gravity effecting the handling - that usually increases stability.

Shave the seat? It' not about reaching the ground - its about making a custom Vespa. I was answering Cynner's question as to why anyone would want to do such a thing to a perfectly good Vespa.
If I wanted to reach the ground I'd have bought a Honda Ruckus and taken the seat off!

Someone in my apt complex has one of those and it is rediculously ugly... and to be honest, the guy riding it is quite the D-bag. I guess the crudness of the design rubs off on the owners too. Ha. Oh snap!

There are always 1 or 2 sitting outside when I drive past The Vogue. I assume it's an employee, because it's always chained up.

No offense to anyone, but I think they're ugly, too.

You wrote this no? This is why everyone on this thread thought you wanted to lower the suspension so "you could put both feet flat and firm on the ground", and why we suggested you just shave the seat to accomplish this.

We didn't just imagine you saying that!

Hmm - lowering the C.O.G., yes...custom GTS...yes...

Please share the detailed info on the project if you decide to take it on. Really interested in your thoughts about suspension alterations required for a 6-inch lowering of the central 'pillar'. Your photo 'sketch' shows a loss of a few pounds or so of body work only; would the suspension really need alteration for that sort of minimal loss, or is the net loss in the height of the bike itself that critical?

An FI, 244cc, low ride GTS should be extemely stable, and perhaps a tiny bit faster. Looks very good, too. Oh, please; bring it on - I'll be right behind you. Please PM if the scoffing grows louder...

regards,
dT

grow longer legs is the key? they can do that stuff where they break them and strech you legs

i like it 8)

You should really go back and re-read the original post.

Kinda like that theory about dogs and their owners RIGHT?

from the drawings, it looks like the steering column is shortened too right? Do you lose the glove box doing that?

So, one poster said it might go faster? Was that sarcasm, or ?

Not at all.

"...a tiny bit faster." Slight reduction in frontal drag.

Eagerly awaiting more info from the OP re: suspension challenges presented by such a thing - all civil opinions welcome.

In the meantime, I b'lieve I'll consult with my cousin, the fabricator and body work guy, and see what he thinks...

You know, the 'sleeper' factor alone appeals - a GTS about as low as a Yamaha Vino rocketing off the line...hmmm, yessss...it will want exhaust enhancements, too...

And d-bag neighbors notwithstanding, let us not scorn the utilitarian beauty of the humble yet stalwart Honda Ruckus:
http://totalruckus.com/Mobile/thread.php?topic_id=12143&&start=0

Looks like a good way to toast your buns.
I wouldn't want to sit on a seat right on top of that engine...!
At least the pet carrier offers some space for heat dissipation! 8)

I know a DB who rides a Vespa...
So what the fuck does any of THAT mean?

It means argumentum ad hominem

Good point.
Sculpted intake louvers/rear exhaust port and insulation, maybe...hmmm...

Believe I'll wire an oven thermometer into the top of the engine compartment and take a long ride tomorrow...just for grins...

This is the basic plan:
The engine is mounted on the centre column and most of the empty space above the engine is, well, it's empty space. So the rear section is cut away from the centre column and lowered and then expertly attached using all correct principles and craftmanship.

The steering column is also cut and lowered down to the radiator - as low as the glove box. The refit of electrics is adapted as circumstances dictate.

Then, as they say in France - Viola! - a low GTS250.

Couldn't you just shave the seat and then exchange it for the 10 inch wheels? Wouldn't the seat get too hot by removing the pet carrier?? I scrape the bottom when I come into my driveway too fast.

Why ruin a perfectly good, safe design?, just to be differant? There are other cool ways of customizing ones ride without sacraficing safety and handeling. It would be VERY EXPENSIVE to Chop and Channel a GT/GTS. And the end results may not be desirable. Good Luck.

Indeed why. That is a good question.

That was the first question that Cynner asked - why? Which is why I answered Cynner and said that she would be able to put both her feet on the ground. I included a picture of Cynner standing on tippy toes on her world famous violet scooter - viol3t - to make the point that I was answering Cynner.

Very Expensive - you are right - good craftsmen are worth the cost - having said that, "expensive" is subjective and relative.

IfixJets -
Ruin? - depends on if it works. It's only ruined if it fails. And if it fails then I haven't finished yet.
Good? - I Agree, the Vespa monocoque frame is not only good, it is truly inspired as an engineering work of art..
Safe? - the engineering tests will show what needs to be done. It will be safe and certified as such before it goes on the road.

du Tabac, Chazzlee,
Thanks for advice about the seat getting hot. I'll plan on using some insulating layers - perhaps a lamination of R34 rockwool, about 3.5mm layer of expanded polystyrene and gold leaf for lining the underseat to control the radiated heat. An airgap with an airflow of about 5liters/sec at a base figure of 40km/h should be enough to control the temperature gradient. I'll plan on having some increased airflow - maybe include some of those stylish vents on the rear cowl like the GTS300.
The oven thermometer under the seat is a great idea to get some figures on just how hot it gets under there.

osteopath
The ground clearance will remain unchanged, same wheels, same suspension - everything above the engine will be chopped and lowered.

I haven't even started on the engine - where to hang the turbo?

Chopped in the other direction

Hmm...big venturi'ed intake? Behind the leg protector, rainwater shouldn't be a huge problem...engine might actually stay cooler...

Boulty,

I love your single-seat shortened Vespa. It would have a tight turning circle. Hey - a skilled rider could do those "endo" tricks where they squeeze on the brakes until the rear wheel lifts up. It usually ends with the rider going over the handlebars.

The next project is going to be a stretch limo version - it gives the pillion more room and there is enough storage space for two full-face helmets, two sets of riding boots and an picnic basket.

To those who are nay-sayers above in regards to this project - I say: Why not?

If the OP has the interest and ability to do a lowered (or stretched) Vespa, I say do it. Heck, people have been doing that kind of thing to vehicles since vehicles were invented...

Practical?? Maybe not to you, but to some it would be a worthwhile exercise. I for one get the sense that this will be an interesting project to see in the end, and to hear about the process as the OP works through the engineering issues.

Best wishes,

Desi B.

To lower it properly you would need to shorten the shock springs, or fit shorter shocks. You won't lose six inches, though, more like one or two inches which should be enough for a short rider. Dropping the rear will extend the fork angle and add to straight line stability, but cause wobble and wheel flop at slow speeds. To maintain the handling, the front shock would need to be shortened an equal amount. Dropping both ends will reduce wheel travel and make the ride harsh. There is no free lunch, the Piaggio engineers already did the math.

Why do people keep jumping to the conclusion that the OP is suggesting lowering the suspension, and then pooh-poohing the idea? It seemed pretty clear to me that the OP was suggesting a radical body modification, removing the underseat storage and re-shaping the sheet metal in order to lower the bike.

It might not be practical, but it's certainly not impossible, and it's certainly not for the rest of you to say it can't be done.

Sounds awesome. If you've got the will and the way, go for it, and post pictures.

BTW - I love the ruckus. If they made a larger cc that looks like the little 50cc (not the big ruckus... too weird looking), I probably would have bought that instead of my p200. I even thought about this one for a while:

http://www.tngscooters.com/Showroom/Baja+150/default.aspx

But its a tng, and I've heard nothing but bad things about them. meh, Its all about personal style.

If seat height is the goal, sectioning the body like the hotrod crowd does would be waaay more difficult and costly than tweaking the shocks. If it is just a styling fantasy, then common sense would not be too important.

If you carefully read the OPs words - both in his original post and follow-up clarifications, you will see that seat height issues were not part of his main focus...

I like the stretch-limo version, myself, lol.

It's certainly not something I would ever attempt, but if anyone does do a major mod of seriously lowering a modern Vespa, I'd definately want to see it. It sounds like a really interesting idea, providing you have the resources to get it done right.

If anyone does do it, and it looks good, you should shoot the idea off to Piaggio. They might profit more off us vertically-challenged folks, since a simple seat cutdown won't always do the job. I have enough riding experience and confidance to handle the taller 250s, but a lot of newer short riders get stuck on non-Vespa 50cc scoots. Shouldn't have to be that way, ya know? I know this wasn't the original objective, but it might be a very nice side effect.

A strrrreched Vespa?
Already been done...

Ahhhh, you mean the way Palin talks about Obama?

please please please don't any of you guys watch a programme called "American Chopper".......... you'd all have heart attacks