Modern Vespa

Test rode two Hondas today, the Dylan (125cc) and the SHi 300. Considering a new addition and wanted to check out the competition.

Both are amazing scoots with terrific acceleration. The needle on the Dylan jumped up so quickly compared to the LX that it was possible to ride and overtake on 60 mph roads with ease, and the SHi 300 is basically a motorcycle. The SHi is too fast for town but is perfect for running outside of it, down to Epsom, feels secure and planted on corners. Both corner very well indeed. A definite alternative to a Vespa if you don't care about the looks - and such was the speed and roadhandling that I didn't care about either.

It was a serious comedown to sit on the LX again - nowhere near as responsive, fast and the handling was heavy. Plus points are that the LX is more comfortable and looks better.

It is a heresy on MV, but I think perhaps Honda might get my next scooter pennies.

Hondas are the best.

You will always get the +1 from me on that one!

Since Honda America is the most grossly incompetent motorcycle importer on the face of the planet, we won't be getting either of those here in the states.

Sigh.

I checked out the UK Honda site. It appears those scoots have big wheels. That would account for some handling differences.

There's a reason why scooter sales in Italy look like they do. Here's the Year-To-Date Chart updated through September (from CyberScooter.it).

i bought a new honda car 4 years ago and have been astounded with the fantastic service i receive from the dealer and the reliabilty/durabilty of the car which lives outside, gets driven hard and is abused daily by a family of 4. if you haven't guessed, i'm a big fan.

a colleague has an sh300 and loves it. he thinks it's perfect for commuting but also enjoys embarrassing sportsbikes. he also owns a super blackbird, vfr 800, rc51... so isn't easily impressed.

Yeaup. Pisses me off.

Then again, this is the same company that let the Elite 250 die off, which is a remarkable bike (though mine... is not).

Light bike with a strong motor? Sign me up.

Yeah, I'd just about die to get my hands on an SH300. Ah, well. All we can do here in the States is drool.

Do post pictures and such though, if you end up getting one.

Well, I know why the Yamaha T Max 500 tops the list.

I've tried one and it will be my next addition to the garage.
One hell of a machine!!

Both are great.

The needle, goes 20, 40, 60 mph + before you can blink!

When I get the LX on a dual carriageway, it feels like I must set the controls for the heart of the sun and the ride is tough. No insane vibration with the Hondas and at the speed limit you don't have that "time travel" feeling.

SH is fast. The pick up is brilliant and it is super smooth. I have not ridden a GTS 300 to compare but wonder if it could.

I can see why they are so popular on the continent, they are easier to ride than a Vespa and are a blast to ride plus are super economical. Honda USA needs to be lobbied for these scoots. If you can have the Ruckus, you can have these lovelies!

Yep. Good news for Vespa, though. That said, even Suzuki is/"might be" getting into the scooter game here in the USA next year: (From motorcycle.com)

With this, the 250cc TU250 and new Gladius middle-weight naked, Suzuki seems as if they're a believer in the U.S. market finding religion in a big way when it comes to riding motor bikes.

I hope they make mountains of money on these bikes. Good for them and all of us who ride.

Are those numbers year to date numbers? If so, it is pretty impressive that the 300 Super has moved up so fast. How long has it been selling in the UK as compared to the others?

If I looked at the text next to the chart I would have answered my own questions. Year to date, Italy not UK

My guess as to why we in the USA don't get these bikes is the unfavorable (though improving slightly las week) value of the U.S. Dollar vs. the Euro. I think the SH, along with a lot of other very cool motorcycles from Honda that aren't available this side of the pond, are made in Italy. So, the price isn't going to work in our favor if these bikes were to be imported from Europe.

Now, one might ask than why is it Vespa can build scooters in Italy, import them here to the States and sell them? Frankly, as much as I'm a super fan of both my Vespa scooter and Honda motorcycle, the Honda brand, as it relates to scooters here in the USA, can't carry Vespa prices. Most Americans don't equate Honda with premium-priced products, especially if they're at parity with a comparable European model.

That's partly why my model motorcycle (Honda 599, made in Italy) failed here in the USA. On paper, it's got more power and by reputation, is more reliable overall than the comparable Ducati Monster at the time (and current one, really), but cost about the same. Most people here would probably choose the Ducati over the Honda if the price were close or the same. The Ducati would look "affordable" compared to the "expensive" Honda. It was almost $1000 more than the closest Japanese competition, too. I'd bet an SH300 would come close to the price of a GTS here in the States. Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong.

If the American scooter and motorcycle market were bigger, more diverse, more mature and truly had a demand "worthy" of Honda's typically conservative business practices, than scooters like the SH300 would probably be selling here today.

Im guessing that this upcoming Suzuki scooter as well as the Yamahas already available here in the States are made in Asia, where the dollar is slightly less Peso-like, exchange-wise.

The SH300i is more like a motorcycle in a scooter body. I think you will find that the GTS 300 is comparible in smoothness and acceleration. Both are a similar price here in Europe!!!!! The Honda does have 20kw of power compared to the Vespa's 16 and 26NM of torque to 23!

I agree with you that they are great machines.

BUT they are both UGLY as sin. And when it comes to selling them they do NOT keep their value anywhere near the Vespas.

Go try the 300. Think your pennies may go there!

In a test of 125cc scooters done by T&G the Vespa LX 125 came way down the list. Winner was the Peugeot Jetforce 125 ABS with the Dylan in second place......

Okay well there is one serious minus point with both aside from the looks. They are not as comfortable. My back hurts now (I'm 29!), and I can ride the LX all day and it feels like sitting on a sofa (okay, a vibrating slow sofa) by contrast.

doug, I won't have the opportunity to try the GTS 300 until November but will give it a whirl then.

robotribe, the price point for the GTS 300 and the Honda SH 300 is roughly the same, though the GTS is more expensive at £3,749.00 with £3599 for the Honda. I think people would pay more for the GTS but the SH is fast, and is really a motorcycle in scooter's clothing as doug suggests. Maybe it would never go stateside because of the dollar cost but I think Honda are missing a trick.... scooterists would buy these anywhere (provided their backs didn't pack up!)

Be careful with that scooter, Eugene!!!

Any particular reason?

I have read plenty of reports (positive) about the SH300i. They just look so crap though! I am sure it is a joy to ride. You also get a free top box (even more ugly).

The GTS will be more nimble in town though due to its smaller wheels. The difference between the GTS and the LX is night and day. You still get the comfort but you also get smoothness, power and a great big wedge of stability.

A grand vacation! In the High Atlas drinking mint tea, painting watercolours during the daylight hours. At night I will venture to the flesh pots of Marrakech... all until the end of October.

On my return I will take the GTS for a spin should my constitution be up to it.

as much as i like hondas i have to agree with doug. the vespas look so much better.

i've owned 3 scooters over the years - all vespas.

Oh yeah I forgot.

I also forgot to mention: "Traitor!"

Enjoy the holiday!

Correct. The SH300 is a creation of the Honda Italia Design Studios and is built in Italy.
The designers started with an existing Honda dirtbike engine rather than a conventional scooter engine.

Honda has killed all its 250 scooters in the US. Reflex, Helix and Big Ruckus have all been discontinued in the past few years. The Reflex was dropped for 2009 along with the ancient looking 80cc Elite. Maybe we will get the new SH300i or the 400cc version of the Silver Wing. Yamaha has added new models with the 500 TMax and a 125 version of the Zuma to match the 125 Vino.

Maybe, but not with the 2009 model lineup.

I think a conversation with a Honda Power Sports corporate rep would probably go something like this:

ME: So, could you tell me what Honda has planned for scooters in the North American market?

REP: Sure. Honda is ahead of the curve when it comes to power sports, and alternatives to traditional cruisers and sport bikes are no exception. Have you seen the new DN-01?

ME: Yes. Interesting bike. What about Honda scooters?

REP: We've got a full line of scooters, from the 50cc Metropolitan and Ruckus models, to the exciting touring capable Silverwing. Have you ridden a Silverwing? It's the Acura TL of scooters!

ME: Are there any models with displacements between those you mentioned, like the Honda SH150 or SH300 which have been available for some time now in Europe?

REP: Honda continues to innovate and dominate in markets across the globe, including Europe. One of our newest innovations is the brand new DN-01 motorcycle. It combines the best attributes of a cruiser and style of a sport bike, mated to an automatic transmission similar to CVT equipped scooter. The power of a motorcycle with the ease of a scooter. We're very proud of the new DN-01 and its "game-changing" effect on the power sports market.

ME: I can see that. So, what about Honda scooters in the 150cc to 300cc range?

REP:(pauses for a couple seconds, silent, but grinning)...Have you heard about the new ABS option on the CBR600RR and VFR800? Innovation in safety technology is Honda's number one priority, and we think you'll agree that safety is at the front of every rider's mind.

ME: (walking away)

REP: Have you heard about the all new for 2009 BIG RED? It's Honda's newest and most innovative Multi-purpose Utility Vehicle! Also, the new 2009 Rancher AT is sure to turn the ATV market on its head with its bold styling and independent rear suspension (IRS), all-new twin-clutch, 5-speed automatic transmission, and available Electric Power Steering!!!

I rode another Honda today - I feel so dirty now. It was great! Each time seems a little better.

Why is this Honda so much better than the Vespa? Why is the acceleration and the road holding far superior? Light, flickable, moves like shite off a shovel, and cheap(er).

But why, for the love of dog, does the Honda ming utterly? It is so damn ugly that you'd want to put a cover over it at night so that you could spare passers by the eye pollution.

I think it has something to do with the beloved all metal frames of the Vespas. It makes them heavier. I think there's a reason that every non Vespa or Vespa style scooter has plastic body parts over a metal frame. Does anyone have weight comparisons? That's my just my guess.

<----- Likes Hondas

Yes the weight difference is factor, but the engine is great too. Very responsive, just pulls and pulls and everyone else is dust in the mirrors.

I wish they were less ugly. Looks aren't everything, are they? If I can get over the looks I will buy one.

It is a bit like having two boyfriends, one who is all looks but is poorly endowed and then the other one with a face like a bag of spanners who does the underpants tango like no one else. You wish their best features could be combined somehow.

*sigh*

Hahahaha..... I guess I'm one for the uglies with the hott action. Even my Vespas are ugly, but run well. I actually like the looks of these...

Yours, Max?

I like that because it is just mad design, equivalent to Citroen for cars. You had to really like it to buy it, no compromise involved.

Yup. The 150 is my daily scooter. Never had a problem once. The Vespas can't be registered easily, so I throw a dealer plate on them and ride them every so often. They're both old race bikes that have all the proper numbers cut off.

Gotta love the old Dust-Buster styling.

Or Canada, unfortunately.

Ride one socially once or twice a week to impress the friends, and use the other as your daily rider...

"You're not ashamed of me, are you?"

"No, no, it's just I prefer spending quality time with you, alone. More intimate that way".

Heh.

Give the Yamaha TMax 500 a try. I think you'll love it.

I not only gave one a try, but bought it.

I've kept the GT200 but it only gets the odd run, anymore.
Just to keep the battery charged.

Ok, that may be the funniest thing I've read theis week...

I've always liked Honda motorcycles and am willing to bet I would like their scooters if they would bring something other than the Ruckus and the Met here.

Get the honda. I have had 2 helix 250's over the years and they are by far the best scooter out there. Now they don't get points for beauty but they don't have all the quirks that the vespa's have Go for it. Have fun in morocco it's awesome.

My 1984 Honda Aero 125.





Little scooter, big 2-stroke motor.