Modern Vespa

It was Sunday; I was having a good day striking items of the honey-do-list. I then went to my list... changing the GT's oil.
It was all going well... plug out, filter out, oil out, plug in, new filter in. I then put some new oil in careful not to over fill, checked the dip stick it was at the second mark, started it up and idled for a few minutes, the oil light stayed on, so I checked the oil again - it still looked good. I then decided to take it out for a few blocks, assuming it needed more oil pressure/engine speed for the light to go out and to make sure the oil gets into the filter so I can then top it off. As I am going down the alley the oil light flickers and then stays on, a few blocks later my scoot stalls, a few blocks later it stalls again and won't start, so I push the 3 blocks home. I check the oil and its bone dry; I realize that I seized the engine.... I add more oil, let it cool a bit, check oil again, after a few tries it starts up and seems to idle OK. I then went around the block; it ran OK but sounds like a ratchet gun when I went faster then 20mph or so. I was traveling for work on Monday/Tuesday, when I got back home last night I checked it again and went around the block again. It seams to idle a little louder but goes around the block with about the same power. The ratchet noise above 20mph is still there. I have not gone more the around the block or 25ish mph for fear of increasing the damage.

So, I seized my engine due to it getting too hot with too little oil. The flickering oil light was probably when the oil went into the filter lowering the oil in the case telling me to finish adding the oil.
Now that I F'ed my scoot, and did a $%#$% *#$%#&$ thing,
What happens with a seized engine? The Piston ring locks up with the cylinder... so I scraped the cylinder wall or damaged the piston ring or more?
Do I need to have the engine rebuilt? Or can I ride it as is?
Would continuing to ride add to the damage? Would it be reliable? (I would assume I would have some lost power and gas mileage)

What are my options? What do I do?

I think the first parts to get damaged by driving without oil, at moderate engine load, would be the camshaft/lifters and the big end bearing. The sound you are hearing could come from these parts, or maybe a scuffed cylinder/piston?

I the scooter was running fine before you changed the oil it seems that there is something wrong with the filter, what brand did you use?

You probably know now that you shouldn't have gone out riding without oil pressure (whitout a proper check-up) , but others might learn from this.

PS. Drain the oil to see if you find lots of golden and silvery stuff in it

Was this the first time you changed your own oil? How long have you owned the bike? Did you buy it new? Ever have dealer service?

That really is bad news. I don't have an answer for you, but am hoping that you can get it back running soon.

In the meanwhile, I wouldn't ride it until it was checked over by a mechanic. You may be compounding problems.

JK
The bike was fine before, the filter is aftermarket from a reputable shop.

NightWing
I fail to see how any of those are relevant to my original questions.....but for the sake of educating others...
I bought it used 4 months ago. This was my first attempt at a MC oil change (never had a problem with auto's). I didn't have it serviced at a dealer yet. I was changing the oil because of time, not mileage. It has almost 3000miles on it, I put on about 800.
I was using a gallon bottle of oil, so I couldn't accurately tell how much oil I first put it (obviously not enough).
I consider myself mechanically inclined, and able to complete small jobs, but know nothing about engines/transmissions and would not consider completing a rebuild myself.
I don't know when I will be able to get it fixed as I have no budget for a large repair job, but want to be knowledgeable when I do get it fixed so that I'm not taken to the cleaners. Yes, I know the full extent of the damage cannot be determined without taking it apart.
I am truly embarrassed, but posted this anyway.
If I sound defensive, it's because I am pissed off at myself for doing such a %#@& thing, and will probably have to park the scooter for quite some time before I can consider getting it repaired.

Sorry to hear your dilema.

I went through a similar situation in May. The wrist pin on my piston sheared off and made a mess of the engine.

I found another wrecked bike (one with front end damage) and was going to swap engines. Thats when the cost really started to climb.

I could not get the job done (buy the used engine and pay to have it installed) for less than $1500.00. I gave up and sold the scooter for scrap and bought another one.

I doubt you'll fare much better. Even if you can salvage the block, the parts and labor will likely cost more than the bike is worth.

As much as I hate to say it, you're probably better off junking the bike and finding a new one. Chalk it up to a lesson learned....

Good Luck.

I don't think $1500 is too much to put in a 2005 GT if the bike was in average shape before. The fact that it still runs is much better than if it set up solid or blew apart. It may not cost that much to repair.

You may not be as bad off as you think but it would probably be a good idea to have an experienced mechanic open it up and give an honest appraisal of what needs to be replaced.

With lack of oil it could have fried the crankshaft bearing, in that case it will need a new crankshaft, which is probably the most expensive single item on the whole scoot. With the noises you discribe is sounds like it is the crankshaft. To fix it is going to cost a lot, but I guess you already know that, if you cant do the work yourself I would consider a replacement engine, as labour costs will be a killer. $1500 for a replacement engine and fitting sounds about right.

As said before get it checked out first, whatever happens it would be better to strip the engine and make sure there isnt any damage anywhere.


Sorry you had to find out the hard way, but never ever continue to ride or run the engine if the oil light comes on.

Its ok to sound pissed off, I would be to

a crank job on a GT runs about 1300~1500, or about the same a decent replacement engine with install...

however, i'm intrigued. you'd have to be crazy low on oil, like less than 1/2 a quart to get the motor to stick...

sure something didn't make its way into the oil fill....

either way, you're on the ass-end of hard luck. sucks to hear about the motor, but at least you've got options.

best,
-greasy

The list of items that could be making a "knocking" sound is quite extensive. In fact, the knock could even be unrelated to the oil issue, though that's a long shot. I've seen an engine that knocked like crazy because a piston wrist pin retaining circlip failed, for example. The best bet is an engine tear down to accurately identify the problem.

Al

Of course you're right a knocking noise could be a number of things, you need to strip it to be sure. I'm no expert but it seems more like a lack of oil circulation rather than a lack of oil. My monies still on the crankshaft, but as I said I'm no expert

Guys,

When I was in a BMW club, we used to have regular meetings when we would fix things. We would pick a project and meet at his or her place with a BBQ lunch and fix it. There was an authorised BMW mechanic and he supervised and signed off on the job. As waveyd66 said, the labour costs would be the killer.
I can see that all in the thread so far are in the four corners of the globe, Finland, US, UK, Canada and... hey there's a NEW Hampsire! There will be some handy and knowledgable people on MV that can help.

Could we get together for this?

i cant help you but for everone else I use a plastic measuring cup that holds about 1.5 quarts. If Ive bought oil in the gallon size container I poor it into the measuring cup first to make sure I add the right amount. I do this for all my bikes and mowers etc.

Thanks for all the replies and support. Options are good to have, especially when money is low. I guess I know what I'll be getting for X-mass.

I gave a copy of the shop manual to a co-worker whose hobby/obsession is repairing MC's. He has worked on a several types Norton's, Ducati's, Honda's, etc... for many years. We're going to pull the engine and have a look at it one of these weeks.

I like the idea of the measuring cup.
The ride/repair club sounds like a great idea, but this area has very few scooters, and being married with 2 elementary aged kids, I generally have no time and the only pleasure riding I have is when my wife tells me "we need milk" - but that is classified as an errand .

I totally didn't want to mention the measuring cup, figuring it might come off like rubbing salt in the wound. But it is definitely highly recommended! Since you're considering the adventure of dismantling the engine, I would also recommend begging/borrowing/stealing torque wrenches and micrometers.

I have always measured the oil going into our scooters, albeit we're taking about gear oil only on a 2T. Even the PX, which you fill until it starts to flow back out. It's a good double check.

You do this when you change oil in a car.

Al