Modern Vespa

Dr.Pulley has e-mailed me via the Union website, so I know that he is the same guy that I am in contact with at Union.

redfone also PM'd me and confirmed same.

I believe Dr.Pulley is ligit. And have placed an order with him using my credit card and thru PayPal.

If a problem arises I will first utilize PayPal. If that dont work out then I will file a dispute with my credit card company. Personally I don't care if PayPal doesn't like that idea, but I'm protecting my assets. 99% of merchants accept credit cards anyway so the loss of PayPal is no big deal. (IMHO).

Jill, if you are going to install the J.Costa variator, I'd recommend you do that first. Then after you are used to it - say riding around for 3 months, then install the HiT clutch.
I've read a bit about the HiT clutch and have ordered it with a set of Dr.Pulley sliders. The HiT clutch supposedily has less slippage, less heat buildup and lasts longer. Plus it supposed to produce a smoother takeoff.
I'm first going to install the sliders and run for 3 months before I put in the HiT clutch.
After I install mine, I'll post a compairson with the stock clutch.

Just to follow up on my post of Feb 9.

Had an email this am from Paul @ Dr. Pulley to say that they have received my payment via PayPal and that the goods have been shipped.

Will comment further as things develop

Best, B

Paul said mine has been shipped too.

I am very interested in this topic. the Sliders sound exactly what I would want.

I cant seem to find any info on price or weight of the sliders tho.

please let us know how the install goes. I would love to try this mod.

PM "Dr Pulley" on this forum. He will give you the prices and shipping.

am not sure which sliders work for the MP3-250?

I found this:

"jaredmorgs" might be able to answer you question as he said he put in his 250 the Dr. Pulley weights.

Or see this:

http://www.scooterwest.com/item_detail/GTS-GTV-Roller-Weight-Set-of-6/2770/

And Scootertrap.com lists the 250 size as 20x17 but not the original weight.

My 13g Dr Pulley weights are being installed on the 26th Feb. I'll keep you all posted.

I heard the original weight for the 250 rollers is 11.2gm. Maybe someone else can confirm that.

Scooter West do list the original weight in the description:

<snip>

...stock original weight only (21x17 11.2g)

</snip>

Hi,
In Taiwan, the round roller in BV250 is 20.9 x17, 11 gram,for SR2117 you can try 0.5 to 2 gram lighter.

I have been running with 6xDr Pulley sliders for 5000 km:s and they work fine. A small improvment over the rollers but there is still some bogging at take-off. Maybe 8-roller variator would be better, probably so.

The way I see it the main problem with the Master engine is a too narrow "gear-ratio" band. The variator should be bigger to enable a lower final gear but retain the present top speed. How the J Costa cures this technically I don't understand, it has to be able to somehow keep the gear in low long enough, in a non linear way, for the engine to stay on the torque curve, and not fall off like with the standard variator (starts raising the gearing too soon)

If the Hit clutch would improve anything with the Master engine seems unlikely, more slip would keep the revs up but the torque is then transfered into heat. I haven't experiened any clutch slip, at least with the original variator.

From what I understand about the HiT clutch is that it doesn't slip as much as the stock clutch, and allows a smoother takeoff.

Here's my theory; the takeoff is smoother because of weaker springs ie more slip until the torque in the clutch forces the "pillow" to completely close the clutch. This is still a no-brains centrifugal clutch.

Could be. All I know is what I read and discussed with Dr.Pulley

Hi,

To solve the slippage of conventioal clutch,people will use HARD clutch spring to increase the engaged rpm higher to have higher centrifugal force to grasp the clutch outer.
For HiT clutch,its problem never is the slippage but is if the THRUST force too high and the vehicle is not powerful to drive a solid engaged clutch system.

The difference of HiT clutch and conventional clutch is ---- HiT clutch can provide very stronger thrust to clutch bell ,so the clutch slippage is more less or even terminated when the pillow degree is high but if the vehicle is not powerful enough to drive such a solid engaged clutch ( slippage non-existed completely ) ,the engine will stop immediately ( specially in direct drive vehicle such as karting ).

Normally, the clutch-in rpm of HiT clutch is almost same as stock clutch but its clutch-stall rpm ( ie. no more slip) is always lower than the stock clutch. The rpm difference of clutch-in & clutch-stall will be large ( more than 1000 rpm sometimes ) for stock clutch that's why the friction heat build and clutch outer become blue.
But for HiT clutch its rpm difference is small, sometimes the clutch-stall rpm and clutch-in rpm is almost the same when the " pillow degree " is very high or when the " strength " of pillow spring is too low.In this case the actuation of push pin is fast & strong. This kind of HiT clutch can only be applied to a powerful vehicle.

The purpose of using "weak pillow spring" or " no pillow spring " is to expect the thrust will be fast, strong & suddenly or even to make the scooter wheelie sometimes ( if the pillow degree is very high, too ).

I received my order from Paul at Dr. Pulley first post this morning and am happy to report that:

- My order was complete - he'd even included a few "extras". Thanks, Paul.
- Well packed, padded and in a stout carton.
- Sent airfreight and arrived at my home in UK less than a week after I paid for it.
- P&P charges were very reasonable.

Now all I have to do is install, vroom & report my findings on the operation of the units themselves!

Best, B

How about those pics and the how to do this? Everytime I take my scoot to the mechanic here, he breaks a plastic part. The goof. This thread got so long, I scanned for pictures half way through...Did I miss a link?

I just received my order from Dr Pulley (Paul). Same as yours but I got the HiT clutch also. Thanks to Dr Pulley for the extra stuff too.
I'm starting tomorrow to install the 19gm sliders and see how they work. Although I wont be able to report on them for a month till the snow stops up here and the weather turns a little warmer.
After a few weeks to get used to the sliders, I'll then install the HiT clutch.

P.S. The HiT clutch looks to be a very well made piece of equipment.

Larry: I ordered the clutch too (too!) and agree with your comments re apparent build quality. I hope to get mine fitted (along with the rollers) towards the end of next week; just trying to find a slot in my mechanic's schedule.

Best, B

I'm going to install them myself. I have the tools and it is a straight forward job. Rather not pay a mechanic for something I can do. A couple of years ago I put a Malossi variator in my X9 and that was much more time consuming as a lot of the plastic body panels had to be removed.
Our MP3-400 doesnt have the body panels in the way so that makes it much easier.

Only one side panel *has* to be removed on the X9, it helps if the upper LH painted panel is also removed, but it isn't mandatory. The foot-boards can remain in place, it just needs an eye for how to 'twist' the transmission cover (like a 'metal puzzle') in order to get it off. Piece of piss really.

Ha Jim, I knew you would have a easy way to do it, just back then I didn't know anyone that could give me advise on the X9. Took me forever to get the panels off. Learned a lot since then about the X9 and now the MP3.

Well I have mine all apart, and found the original rollers are 18.7gm - I weighed them on my precision scale. Since I ordered a set of 19gm and a set of 17gm, I'm going to put in the 17gm sliders.
I found the sliders can be put in several different ways due to the flats on them. I went to the Dr Pulley website and installed mine as shown on their site. So be careful on how they are installed. Also the 4 slides are a snug fit. I had to push them on whereas the original slides just fell off when I took it apart.

Oh yes, I use to have one of those "precision scales" back in the day

Wayne B

Well, it's all back together. Now I have to wait for a nice day to try it out.

Hello to all I'm new! I've recently (6 months ago) purchased my first 3 wheeler a Fuoco, up until that time I had been riding scooters vespas/lambrettas for the last 25 years, more recently in the last 5 years I also dabbled in 2T autos. I have noticed this thread and decided to try out some Dr.Pulley 'sliders' 25x17x19g in my Fuoco. As it is near its 6000mile service I plan to put the sliders in with a new belt. One thing I am a little confused on though is the claimed tacho readings? My Fuoco has done 5500 miles and is totally standard. At a constant 60kmph it reads 4000, at 80kmph - 5000, at 100kmph - 5500 and flat out 150kmph - 7100. I don't understand the originators claim that they show 5500 at full throttle revs?? Somebody please explain. I also plan to fit a Leo Vinci 4 -Road exhaust on in the coming months. has anybody had any experience with these pipes and are there any gains.
Thankyou for my ignorance.

I've read a lot about the LV pipe and seen a few videos on them too. It appears that there is an extremely small HP increase at high speed. Probably not enough for the rider to notice. However there is a 50% weight difference (the LV is about half the weight of the stock pipe).

Do a search here for "Leo Vinci(e)" and you may get some more data.

Don't waste your money on a pipe if you are looking for more power

Now if you just want a better sound then go for it.

Wayne B

Thanks for the exhaust info. Now what about the rev question?
What tacho readings (Fuoco) do people have at the relevant speeds on flattish roads with little wind effect?
60kmph, 80kmph, 100kmph and full speed 150kmph?

Been out again, and found tacho reading to be as follows;
60kmph 4000, 80kmph 4500, 100kmph 5200, 150kmph 7100

Tacho readings at constant speeds are useless comparisons between different bikes with different loads on them (read weight of rider) by the very nature of the CVT.

What is relevant are the revs reached from standstill when the throttle is wrung wide open until top gear is reached - this will tell you whether the bike will be accelerating more or less in comparison with another variator set-up.

For me, stock variator, 5200-5700rpm, J Costa 6500-7000 rpm. I give the range as these readings are only obtained by quick glances.

so how do you know when top gear is reached???

When the revs climb higher as you go faster?

Well I took out my scoot today and was surprised that it started at the touch of the button after sitting for 3 months.

As you know I put in the 17gm Dr Pulley sliders.
There is a very noticeable difference in the transmission of power.
The takeoff is normal if you only open the throttle part way. But if you give it WOT the takeoff is slightly better than with the stock rollers.
As soon as it gets to 10-15MPH there is a lot more acceleration up to about 60MPH.
I couldn't go faster than 60 as the traffic was bad.

But I used to get a slight shudder with a cold engine - now thats gone and it accelerates much smoother now.
The engine revs at WOT jump to 6200 and slowly climes above that to 6800 (my speeds were limited due to traffic).

It may not respond like the J Costa variator, but it's a smoother shifting of power and increased acceleration - like Jimc says about 70% as good as the costa.
For the $40, I think it's well worth it.
IMHO

A friend and I took our two 500s out Saturday. one with the DR.Pulleys and one without, and traded back and forth.
We both agreed the Dr. Pulley bike ( mine) is all around better than my wife's stock bike. Not very scientific, but there it is.
Well worth the money me thinks.

I really can't add much to this discussion as I'm a VERY new MP3 rider, however I had Dr. Pulley roller weights put into my 49.7cc chinese scooter and went from 6 grams to 5 grams and it made a WORLD of difference!!

I'm a big guy and was barely able to get up to 12 - 15mph on a hill near my house. and now can take that same hill over 20 - 25. The guy also made a ½" hole in my muffler, next to the original ½" hole... I guess that's the same concept as all the cars out there with huge exhausts..

So what weight should one get for the 250?

Have read that the 13g where good, or should one go with a lighter weight?

I read and heard that the 250 has 21x17 11.2g rollers as stock.
But the only way to confirm that is to weigh your rollers.