Modern Vespa

Ok, I I was replacing the bendix on my GT 200, I find out that I can't with out removing the nut that holdes the diving pulley. Nothing I was trying was working so I eventualy went and got a impack wrench, but not before I broke one of the fins on the half pulley.

My problem: I got the bendix replaced and that now works like a charm. but since I broke a fin I had to remove the half pulley to remove the broken fin, I also ended up removing everything but the fixed plate. Kind of wanted to see what was in there.
Now, the GT starts just fine but it won't stay running and when it is on, it sound loud and not right. There are 3 things I think it could the culprits, I was thinking wondering if there was someone out there that can maybe shine some light for me

#1 The system was bone dry, no lube, but it's not like I cleaned it of, so it had no lube to start with and it has done good for me before. So thatone of me is a needs improvment area but I dont think the culpriate.

#2 Like I said I did break one of the fins, but removed the broken piece, and will be replacing it as soon as i get the part, But not sure how a missing fin would affect performance? , could a broken fin explain the harsh sound of the GT or maybe even the failure to stay on.

#3 Now the final and the one I'm most worried about.--Putting it back together I'm pritty sure I did it right. and I followed the diagrams i had. But something didn't seam right to me. first, the belt seams to lose, as if when it would be running it would be rubbing agains the edge of the crank case. and it also didn't seam like it was completly in the same plane, it seamed like the wraped around the drive pulley was a little more forward than it should of been. But i slide the half pulled with the little wheals all the way in and the nut at the end fit right in like it was before?

Ok now it's you peoples turn, what do u all think, and also would I do any harm if i tried to start it with the crankcase cover of to try to see what was going on?

thanks, I'll be waiting Impatiently at my desk!!!!

Read this and see if anything leaps out at you:

New Variator Problems

cheers

1) You can't run it with a broken fin. It'll be unbalanced, and will fill your bike with bad juju. Okay, not juju, but you really shouldn't run it with a broken fin.

2) Are you positive you put everything back together exactly as it came apart, including the thin shim washer that goes in between the sleeve and the outer pulley half?

3) The whole assembly should, in fact, be assembled so that the belt seems "loose". To assemble it this way, you have to get the belt wedged way into the clutch (rear pulley), which requires some strength and dexterity. This prevents the belt from being pinched between the two halves of the variator pulley when torquing down the nut, which segues nicely into...

4) You must must must torque down the variator nut correctly, with an actual torque wrench, or the whole thing is likely to come apart and eat your engine. People screwing this part up have ended up replacing their whole engine. Yes, I'm serious.

5) Put down the impact wrench and promise never, ever to use it on your scooter again.

I didn't have anything left over. all my washers are in place and all, I didn't how ever replace the outter nut with the attached washer nor did I put anything on it. Would that explain anything or everything.

One thing that I did find interesting from it was the suposid function of the pulley. Does that thing expand? I'm confused as to what he said turned out to be the problem, also I have a GT and he had and LX150 but what exactly does that pulley do? to me it looked pritty worthless there.

Did i also get from the reading and am I right with this that the belt is not suppose to be tight? but what if it rubs on the crank case? So yea besides that I couldn't get anything else from that

Wait, so you didn't put the nut for the front pulley on at all? The front pulley and rear pulley both expand and contract, depending on RPM. Are you maybe talking about the black plastic wheel in between them? Yes, read my post just above yours (posted while you were posting). The belt should be loose. The pulleys will adjust their diameter to take up the slack automatically as soon as you run the engine...

...which you should not be doing until you take the thing apart and put it back together correctly.

ok one thing at a time, first the impact wrench thing. i called my vespa sevice and dealership and they are the once that told me the the only way i could do it is with an impact wrench. How am I suppose to use a torque wrench when i dont have anything to hold down the pulley system from spinning. nor can I get anything from the dealership?

The front nut, yes i put it back on I just didn't replace it with a new one

the black round thing in the middle- what is that thing for and what does it do?

The thin washer- yup I put it back right behind the most front pulley(the one i broke a fin from by not using the impact wrench haha)

Belt into rear pulley- ( are u talking about clutch assembly--if so read on if no please explain more) I never took that part apart. i kept the belt on it and i just slide it on and of the shaft to remove the belt

Belt pinching of the belt bettween my pulley with a broken fin and the rear one with the wheels? can u tell me how I can make sure im not pinching the belt and if i was what would be a clue that i am doing that like in start up and all.

I'm not going to be able to sleep till I figure something out!!!!

The problem here is that your pulley assembly in not correctly fitted and torqued down, allowing components to rub on the inside of the transmission casing.

You need to take it all apart and make sure the belt is deeply seated in the rear clutch pulley before reassembly. Just because you didn't touch it initially doesn't mean you can skip this step. This means that you can get the belt into the correct position on the front pulley before tightening the variator nut down.

Went through this last week on the LX150. Is there an easy method for this? I put a plastic block on the belt and went round and round hammering until it seemed wedged in far enough, and then went a but further. I'm imagining a couple of blocks of wood and a vice to spread the plates next time.

Twist the pullies apart. Set the clutch pulley on a cloth or a bit of rubber and press down and twist the top pulley (can't remember which direction) until it opens. It's a two person job as you need another to pull the belt into the pulley.

Your dealer is a dolt, then. Getting the nut off via impact wrench is sort of almost okay, but never, ever, ever put the variator nut back on with an impact wrench. If you screw it up, you buy a new engine. That's the magnitude of seriousness here.

You need a Variator Holder from Scooterwest. For some reason, they all need the bottom hole widened out a bit, but other than that it's an inexpensive tool that you can't do the job without. Okay, so not so bad. Next time put some lock-tite blue on the threads if you're not going to replace it. That just keeps the belt from slapping around inside when the two pulleys are in mid-readjustment, like on sudden deceleration. Just make sure it spins freely, and you don't have to worry about it beyond that. Good. That's a very important washer. You really need to remove the clutch and, as dougl noted, place it on the ground with a cloth on top of it. With the palms of your hand resting on the cloth, wrap your fingers around the top half of the pulley and pull up. As you do so, you'll notice the top of the pulley will want to rotate as well. Keep pulling up and rotating while with your fingertips pushing the belt farther into the clutch, as much as you can. When it's as far as you can get it, pinch the two sides of the belt between your fingers nearest the clutch so that the belt stays in there while you put the clutch and belt assembly back on the scooter. Let the belt be held in by the sides of the engine case.

The point of this exercise is to make sure you have the maximum amount of slack on the belt on the other end, at the variator. If the belt didn't have any slack during this operation, you would be re-assembling the variator with the belt pinched in between, and you wouldn't really be torquing down the variator, you'd be torquing against the belt. In that scenario, as soon as the belt moved, the variator pieces would be loose, and then they would wobble at the end of the crankshaft, which would destroy the variator and possibly the crank, which would again necessitate a new engine. So it's important.

Once you get the variator torqued down to the right specs, you'll want to make sure the belt is still loose around the variator, to ensure it didn't get pinched. Just move it around. If it's not caught on the variator, you're okay. As soon as you start the scooter, the belt will adjust itself automatically to the right tension.

Wow ok now I see. Thanks everyone for your help. Especially Jess you have been very helpfull. Ok I have a midterm tomorrow so I cant spent anytime today messing with it and since I need a new half pulley and that special tool, I'll just order all that and wait for it to get here.

I think I have a good idea on how to get that belt into the the clutch assmebly good by Jess's great explanation so I'll do that but if anyone else wants to chime in feel free.

Now, I mentioned before that the whole system was bone dry no lube. What I wana do when i take it apart next time is clean the whole system and lube it, what I want to know is what is ok to clean as much as I can, what I should not really mess with? What should have lube what shouldn't? And finally like what would be something good or ok to use to clean it and what would be a good lube.
Ok thanks alot again everyone that helped, and don't worry Jess I won't even start it again until I get all this fixed, but hey I fixed that starting issue yay, which I guess doesnt help me cause I'm not allowed to start it, dam it a crule world. No GT for maybe two weeks dam midterms

This is so not an application for an untrained person to do. I hear it over and over on the boards, major damage saving $100 bucks in labor.

Take it to your dealer and have them sort it out.

Best,
SDG

[/quote]

This is so not an application for an untrained person to do. I hear it over and over on the boards, major damage saving $100 bucks in labor.

Take it to your dealer and have them sort it out.

Best,
SDG[/quote]

To late, and thanks but no thanks, my personality just wont let me do that. yes i might not know now but thats how i learn. For me learning is worth more than saving some money
When I first got my truck at 17 I didn't know anything about it. but I learned now it has over 200,000 miles on it and I rarely ever take it in. I own that truck, I know that truck, I work on that truck.
Thanks though

Generally, the whole transmission is assembled dry. I've heard of some people greasing the bushing, but I don't.

Exception to this is the Polini aftermarket variator, which has a grease reservoir.

cool cool thanks, cleaning, is it ok if i try to make everything spot less, ofcourse i wouldnt be able to, but would it be bad if i get it too clean? I'm guessing no since its a dry system

Clean is good. Especially good is to get all the dust out.

Well all is done and the GT is back in sevice, It also seams like it is running smoother, maybe it was the hours I spent cleaning the whole transmition assembly or maybe just my imagination.
Thanks everyone who tried to help and special thanks to those that helped. And to those that told me to just take it in, hmm I didn't mean to be mean or anything but its just that if you all knew me, you all would of never said that to me haha, I'm known to be pritty stuborn and everyone that knows me knows that there is no way someone can tell me that I can't do something.
But in that note I couldn't of done it without the help or atleast it would of taken me alot longer and a lot more mistakes so again thanks alot and hopfully soon i'll know more about this bike that I would be able to help others with questions too.
Thanks