Modern Vespa

Hi guys!
I bought a GL 150 three years ago and it wouldn't pass the Swedsh DMWs testing. Much due to that it didn't start (ignitionparts were original 1962 and the classic thing happened when you can't start it when it's hot.. not sure of the word for the component but you know..) When it finally started they failed me cause my headlight didn't glow enough (and my spare tire had cracks in it because of age.. no law to carry a spare but i it didn't matter).
Finally got the thing going again after 3hours and got home.

I took a look at the swedish dealers homesite and did the math for buying everything apart from the flywheel (they are harder to find than Jimmy Hoffa).
It added up to about 50$ less than a conversion kit from that big canadianbased company.. can't remember the name of it.
I called up the dealer who was very helpful. This thing with selling parts for 45 year old bikes is just a hobby of his and there's no was no margin to be negotiated. I mentioned the 12V conversion kit and he told me they were hard to install. He had the same bike as mine, same VBB engien and he'd bought it but hadn't found the time to install it on his old bike he bought 45 years ago as a teenager. There was no scam. I talked him into selling me the kit and he sold it to me for the same amount he'd payed for it.

I think he'd been sitting on the it a bit to long and got confused cause the parts looked more like parts for a PX scooter which he told me was his everyday runner. There were documentation and more documentation that he had assembled during the past three years but none of the diagrams added up. Think i had three at that time.
Anyway I had all winter and it was snowing outside so I removed the original ignition and started guessing and calling people who might know. Have a friend who's an engineer who've worked with everything from neuclearphysics (that's his career title haha) to rockets to bikes and trucks and taught himself how to renovate vintage airplane engiens with new parts. He just scratched his head and sayed "Since all the parts are passive, there's no way of measuring them and we don't have a chance since we only have colours so my guess is as good as yours".

Three months passed and i bought a new wiring loom, the boxes that came with the kit.. basically everything beside the flywheel. It wasn't too expensive and i was getting eager to take a ride.
Recieved a box with a loom with more colours than the rainbow. You could either go all the way with the big loom i bought or use parts of the old one (all you guys who drive modern vespas.. this thing is wired like a big dominogame.. basically one wire passes through the whole thing for lighting and so on.. but it's separated in a dozen places and you use the engien frame for low direct currents atleast at times if i remember the diagram right).

I decided to just go with the diagram i last recieved. Took me a whole day with bearing grease to get the thick loom starting fram the back all the way up through a tiny hole to the the headlight, horn and brakelight connectors. Been a while so i don't remember it in detail (if i did i would be still be a wreck) but that makes it two cords. One for the headlight and horn and one for the brakelight that you also need to connect to the rear brake by your right foot (only you need to reverse it first to otherwise it will be lit when you don't break and you would turn the brakelight off by breaking).

At the end of the other side of the loom that I later found out was for a smallframe (so the ignition relay that you put your key in (wow that's.. 20th century tech!) ended ut somewhere inside the frame instead of next to the sadle so now have to take it out to extend it or just weld the cords together.

.. at the other end of the loom there was a lot of colours so i looked at the diagram and nothing added up.. just like before.
The boxes were right this time (bought some new boxes but they are 7$ and a jar of pills for bad headache will set you back more at the grocery store so i took a chance.. but they didn't match the pretty pictures of the boxes) so I had to buy a new CDI and another thing that was another 5$ + shipping to Sweden..

Now we had all the parts coming from the same store (and I had two complete systems apart from the flywheel!!)

The colours didn't match this time either. There were lime, orange and grape but no black or red.. Then the connectors were wrong.
Since the canadian company probably made the loom themselves or had someone in Vietnam or thailand do it for them (some of the boxes read so). I can't see whyyyyyy.. I mean there was no difference between the small frame and the large frame systems apart from the lengh of the loom. But the connectors were bigger or smaller..

I couldn't take it anymore. So i wrapped the scooter up and put it outside behind my apartment building so i didn't need to see it everyday when i got home.

Has anyone successfully done this conversion?
I've heard of three guys in sweden who's done it.
One charges about 100$ an hour just to look at it, the other guy is a strange guy and i've seen three of his bikes including a strange 50s lambretta modified to 12V.. but when i tried to make an appointment and discuss a price and time he would be willing to take the job on he just ramled about how he had nothing to do and last time he helped someone with an ignition it was an old lady and he recieved a really nice apple cupcake for his work.. Very strange guy. Few words.. then lots of words of no concern and then few words.. He told me.. You drop by my place and I take a look. Come by later this week. I don't know that day. But just drop by. I'm used to excenric people and they are usually the most interesting to spend time with since they aren't all predictable and have normal schedules like most folks.. and they are often the most gifted people so..
How ever this one I didn't have a chance to get anything solid from not even when i offered him a lot of money just to drop by anytime he liked and tell me if he would after all be interested in the job.

Oh yeah.. the third guy.. Guess he was the smartest one. He moved to hong kong and started a conversion plant somewhere around there. Think they ship to USA and all over.


If anybody has a another diagram for a simular conversion kit or any knowledge as to the boxes and a way to determine which connector goes where.. I would be very greatful cause the poor bike's spent three years under a plastic cover outside with snow covering it half the year

As i remember the boxes were made from two pieces of plastic melted together very firmly so i can't even open them and look inside without a saw, if it would make anymore sense to me just looking inside them since i'm not really into circuitry. I'm a more of black/red or black/red/white kind of guy. But i'm happy to saw them apart if someone tells me what to look for.

Sincerly,
Johan Hudman
Stockholm, Sweden

Alright, you're doing a VERY common thing. You've got a standard largeframe with the old electrics in it, and you've already pulled a conversion harness, and now you're just having trouble figuring out how to hook it all up togther, right?

Did you buy the [redacted].com kit, the scooterworks.com kit, or some other one?

Can you take some pictures of the stator, cdi, and wiring harness? Do you have any wiring diagram? I need colors of wires in the important places.

I can help you, i just need more detail about specifically what you have now. ( and technical detail, not paragraphs of backstory, no offense )

-Eric

Why not post the same question in the Swedish Scooter Club's forum?
http://www.scooterklubben.com/
There are a lot of vintage Vespa experts hanging out there.

BIG THANKS ERIC!!
I'd much appriciate anything you can do to help me.

[redacted]! That's the place. That just spared me looking through my email three years back for reciepts since they only replied one time.
Can understand why they keep a pretty icy tone since it's really hard for even a scilled electrician - unless he's done it before. But then if you've done it before it's easy.

I'll straight to taking photos of the boxes and parts of the loom.
Timewise, I'm 6 hours ahead of you i belive. Hope you look in here tonight!
I'll try to find a server to put the photos on.. I'll try to get a bit bucket by tonight if I can't find a friend who's in and has a server on.

Hesitated writing since no one's ever responded with more than a good luck or "have you checked if any petrol, maybe that's why it won't start"

Best news i've had in three years.

Alright ..well, the [redacted] wiring diagram is hidden on their website, behind their customer portal, which i don't have an account to.

If someone who's ordered from there could go in there and find me the wiring diagram, that would rule.

I could sort you out then.

So, you've got the COMPLETE [redacted] kit, right? Wiring harness and stator, flywheel, CDI, voltage regulator?

I did so in Swedish a couple of years ago with the same exact story.. Shorter since.. vi svenskar orkar inte höra en lång historia om en gammal hoj /haven't got that patience to read all the details.

I didn't get a single responce that was helpful. Got about ten replies since I tried to keep the thread alive. Just a lot of "you're stupid if you can't read of a diagram". Think there was some nice responses too when they told me stuff like that I had to buy 12V lightbulbs (which i'd already done of course).

To bad since i've seen a few local adds for bikes with conversions done by the seller himself. One was the really cool but hard to do business with dirty harry guy who wanted a cupcake and another was a guy up north who did magic work and was thoural in every detail but as I remember it ha had a lot to do and was leaving for a long vacation over the winter. But that was just one out of a hundred guys i spoke/wrote to in my cruisade three years ago.

You were so fast I didn't see your post earlier.
Hope you are in the US.. I went out and took some shots of the connectors on the bike. The first loom were in two parts and didn't make any sense at all. The one I bought later was complete and when I extended it a bit (I know, bad idea unless you solder very tight) didn't show much but the sun went down and I actually couldn't remember if their were any connectors to the old connection plate or if the loom went straight into the glovecompartment on the otherside and I have a short loom to connect from there. I took some photos. Now I have a BIG cardboardbox with all the parts from the old system, the new system and the wrong system.. Probably have duplicate CDI boxes and more that both work fine since the both came from [redacted] but only one had matching colours so..

I'll post the photos as soon as i've had something to eat and had a minute to assort them.

I should have my old [redacted] account.. Made my last order from them last summer so..
But I remember browsing and there wasn't anything that made any sense.
When I mailed them and told them the colours didn't match, the loom was to short and asked how to go about extending and translating colours they replied short that they didn't understand exactly what I meant.
I wrote again even more politely and described what my troubles were and refered to my ordernumbers for them to check if they'd sent me the proper equipment and even implied there might be a fault on my behalf ordering the wrong stuff (there were only two kits to choose from and I had my engien code ready when I made the order so that's not very likely).

I'll look for my login and if I find it i'll have a look around again and maybe I can send it to you somehow.

Big thanks again.

yeah...sucks... at this point you've probably mixed and matched kits, so the wires don't match up.

They had a first generation electronic igntion kit ( and likely, the matching harness ) and then a second generation one ... and you're probably running a little from each column ...enough to make it cryptic.

Been looking for the boxes but it's been a while. Brought the up to document the parts to send to a workshop in hamburg and maybe be able to send the engien down there for assembly and some mods (it's a bit worn and would run better after changing gaskets, pistonrings, and so on.. just let the guys go to work and then pick up the bill and live on beans the rest of the month)

- but then i cleaned out my room in the basement i must have moved the boxes somewhere.. Can't find them.. Gonna keep looking. Hope i'll find the parts in an hour or in five minutes.

Most likely i have some sort of combination. Lot's of orders with years apart. I'm certain the guy i bought it from had a kit for his PX that he confused with a VBB kit. But then when i ordered the loom i picked out all the parts from it that was in the package deal - apart from the flywheel and that should make a complete setup.
Unfortunately the connectors didn't fit. They "push-on connectors" weren't even the same size as the metal it was supposed to connect to.

Figure i'll just build my own loom. That was what the guy who wanted apple cupcake for his work had done. He claimed there was a flat cable made for connecting caravans to cars that was sold by the foot and worked just as well as "those fancy smancy looms".

Get back soon with some photos hopefully.

Big thanks!

I'm back.. promised five minutes to an hour but.. well my two room apartments kind of messy with lots of projects going on so..
it took me three days and probably 6 hours of searching to find the box.
I took some photos.. been a while since I had the schematics in my head and it feels as though something is missing. I remember a purple CDI unit but maybe that was just a photo on [redacted] and they sent me a black one instead. The ignition/flywheel is a bajaj with two holes and not three.. i guess you're supposed to drill three new holes to get it to fit..???.
Hard to measure but i guess that's the normal fee for being a cowboy.. (please don't tell me the core component is for a PX!! it took me three guys, four long attempts with weeks apart, two broken flywheel pullers and two blowtorches to loosen up the locktight that someone 20years ago applyed reinstalling the original flywheel.. two inches of locktight don't let go that easily)

I don't expect miracles just from these very undetailed photos..
Managed to find my [redacted] login and had a brief look but there were no good schematics to be found.. My customer account gave me no privlage to anything about 12V systems apart from a Lambretta stator photo.
You could borrow my account and have a look but most references are to scooterhelp.com.

http://[redacted].com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=387#photos
there's a photo of what resembles the loom i bought a around 18months ago.
The black break piece, i've got that too. Looks just the same. Very unfortunate they don't write on the page they are or for small frame models and not the big GL i have (where the ignition key ends up just a feet back of the brake pedal when you connect it)

Mine is a VBB i'm 99%. It's written in the registration papers i'm sure but the apple cupcake guy i spoke to knew directly a 1962 GL 150 had a.. engine so i'm sure you know that too, unless the US models were in a transision period then but it's not likely. He had a later GS and a GL 150 too and somewhere i wrote down his recommendation ignition angle. He told me it was different from the ones he'd seen being recommended and hadn't worked out for him.. it was a slight change of 3 or 5 degrees..
Been a long while so i'm pretty lost.. i'll just post some photos and hope you maybe can see what to do.

BIG THANKS!

Couldn't up all the pictures at the same time..
here are the cruical parts
Oh yeah.. i downloaded a pdf from [redacted] 2005-11-27 about the same time i bought the kit i guess.. Can't find it so I guess they removed it since it only confused people

everything coming in backward priority here.. sorry

I have a homemade schematic i recieved from the apple cupcake guy

(there's a bug here i write p-i-e but it reads pie as though i miss spelled retard haha did four previews but i guess p-i-e without the "-"s creates a script command of some sort haha might be my browser.. try it)

- three years ago that he'd drew for himself in case he'd redo one of his bikes, but there are no colours and it's out of date.
It's somewhere in the mail on another computer that i used three years ago but i'll look for it as soon as i find the old computer. Maybe i'll have it posted before you log in tomorrow depending on when that is but i'm pretty sure you have one of your own and it's half past past nine in the morning and I really need to catch some sleep.
I'll send it as soon as i find it (and this time i can see the computer that the diagram is in so it won't be three days of searching haha)

Big thanks again. I hope you can make som sense of this..
I took som photos of the loom but it's just a terrible mess of colours apart from the ones in the glove compartment. Then there's the short loom connecting the right and left side of the back of the bike (or did the new loom fix that problem.. not sure.. need to make a more proper attempt looking for the wires that probably are somewhere inside the body.
Whatever's missing just post and i'll go looking for that detail - ASAP.

Off-hand, from the harness, I'd say:
Yellow -> Headlight (or rear and headlight?)
Green -> Brake light
Uncolored -> Rear Light (or kill)
Black -> Ground.

But we don't know about the wires coming from your stator, which can be confusing. C'mon, this is scooters, not Steve Jobs.

I'll almost guarantee you have some sort of VBA/Super wiring harness. Once you pin down the stator, you're good to go. According to Scooterhelp, you should have a green, a black, a red, a yellow, blue, and orange. But the stator will vary by year.

Key questions:
What color wires from the stator (including stripes)?
What color wires from the harness?
Can you check inside the headset to see what wires end up there?
What wires come out at the rear light?

All these can be used to reverse-engineer what harness and stator you have.

No idea since the connectors don't match so everything but the ground is guesswork

I have every colour i think including cappuchino.. but it looks just like the one sold on [redacted]. Trouble is I can't photograph the wires coming out of the where headlight is since the loom is to short for my frame i had to extend them in order for the other end to reach the so far back i could find it with my hand and bring it back in order to take it to the boxes on the left of the bike.

The headlight is easy to just use a tester to check what goes where.. no high voltage in that end that can break anything (i hope) but the CDI, the regulator and the what's it called in english - that goes before the sparkplug.. I wouldn't like to fry anything and not be able to tell what is fried..
The brakelight was the easiest part although the connectors didn't match (might this be an Allstate/Vespa thing?)

I completely agree with you that trial by error is the only way and going through the lighting is the best way..
But i'd rather go easy and just get the ignition working before connecting the headlight and the other more easy +/- stuff..

From there i can use what ever cable i'd like to go to the headlight.
I about as much sentiments for the fancy 3/4inch thick [redacted] loom (that you have to pull up through a tiny hole that's 1/2 an inch) as I have for.. other peoples hair in my food.. to i'd rather get rid of it and get a long nice flat coppercable and take it from there instead of doing guesswork on a loom i've already spent 24h looking at trying to figure out how the hell they intend the differnt connectors to interact and since there are no matching connectors apart from the ones on the CDI (in what order i have no idea since there's no manual what colour goes where and there are more connectors than required i think.. been a while).. it's a fancy loom that you can turn around any way you like and end up with about as many connectors in each end anyway you mount it.. so unless there's a colour translation for the CDI and regulator I have no use for it what so ever.
The brakelight was the only thing that was obvious and the part of altering the brake physically in order not to have the brakelight lid permanently apart from when you do brake..

I'd be greatful if you recognize the boxes and connectors on the photo.

I'd like to know what cable to connect to what box. Really hard to guess when the regulator has yellow, grey and white, an unmarked connector that could be used for ground but the box should be ground mounted in the bodyframe.

Been three years since i started and then it was with just the cables that connected the left and right and used the old wireing. 18months ago I bought the loom and removed all the old wireing.
Now all the old system is gone and all that's left is a loom of death.

Again, guessing.
You've got a rectifier on the bottom of the lowest picture. Grey and grey come from the stator to provide power, which comes out yellow (also grounded to the frame)? If it is a rectifier, it's not one of those designed specifically for a battery.

The box above that one looks like a CDI, but I can't see a spark plug wire attachment.

The last box with G R V B on it? No idea. could be a rectifier or CDI.

Can you get another picture with better angles?

If all of those are rectifiers, just pick one. You only need one on a bike.

Get a picture of the stator plate including the wires that come out of it. I think you've got an electronic ignition with a coil, so there won't be that many wires, probably two or three.

the bottom box with 3 poles is a REGULATOR ... juice in, juice out, ground.


The other two boxes in the pic are CDI. Now, neither of these CDI are the type with the internal HT coil ( like the Ducati / mitsubishi style ).... so they have 3 wire inputs from the Stator plate, and a single wire output to an external HT coil, which should have a spark plug wire hanging off of it. For pics of what this is supposed to look like, see pics of a stella / LML engine.

The CDI in the upper left corner is the one you want to use. Notice the Red, Violet, Black tabs being close to eachother? Those are the leads off the stator in the picture you posted. Run those to it, and then the final tab runs to that HT coil you posted above.

You're so right. Thanks.
The three connectors from the stator are red, grey, violet. (you wrote black, not grey but the colours match.. this is allright anyway?

This was an upgrade kit that had the wrong CDI so no way of telling, (then i added the loom that just made it even more confusing).

The thin green and black wire i assume are for the HT coil but since it's an upgrade i'm supposed to use the original wiring "plate" (don't know the term but you know.. the thing where all the wires meet before going on north to the headlight and so on)
The HT coil only has two connectors. One small black and one big black.
I assume the small black go to the CDI and the big black is for the sparkplug).

Since an upgrade i have no sparkplug connector on the HT coil.
Guess i'm supposed to recycle the old sparkplug.
I still have it somewhere with the old parts (another box, somewhere else)
Would it be a good idea to just buy a new CDI with a built in HT and three feet cord with a sparkplug connector at the end?



The regulator is a funny thing. It says Taiwan Vespa LTD and then numbers and a factory name.
From left to right it reads G-G-A-±. There's no metal connector on the "A" port. The ± doesn't look like that..
Could this be a commercial replacement regulator for a PX since it came with the other CDI?
On the photo one "G" is yellow and one is black.
Juice in at ±, but then..? If it's the wrong regulator please tell me

The stator.. it's a Bajaj. No trouble there? Worried it might also be for a PX and cause trouble. Everybody drills three new holes in their statorboards?
If that's the case I bought a PX upgrade kit three years ago and there's no wonder I can't get it working.. The old guy vespa fan who was a mechanic and basicly did a no profit business selling replacement parts for old bikes. Only place to buy them of a shelf in sweden, but i only spoke to him on the phone since his store is in a town 1000miles from Stockholm and me.
He told me it was for his old GL but he had a ton of bikes and he had a PX too that didn't run so good so.. Not his fault since I was the one asking him for it and he sold it to me for the same price he'd payed [redacted] a year before that.. the guy was well over 60 and he had fourty bikes lined up for all kinds of work and then his own five or so, so there's a chance of a big mistake on his account three years ago when I bought the upgrade.

I'd rather not buy another statorplate but if it's the wrong one..?

The statorplate has a green and a black coming out of it.
Green is juice out and goes to the regulator?
Hard to think straight at 6am on a Sunday morning so there are probably a lot of moranic errors in my guesswork.

Again can't thank you enough. The pieces are starting to fall into place.

Been looking into it and comparing it to the schematics from [redacted]. Any chance i have half a PX kit?
What's your guess?

No, pretty sure you don't have a PX kit for a number of reasons. Typically the PX style kits come with a ducati-style CDI that hangs off the back of your engine. Your CDI's all look to be mounted flat to a frame ( like, in your glovebox ). The flywheel and stator wouldn't fit on your sprint, either.

Per your previous questions, yes ....an HT coil has 1 wire input coming to it, and 1 fat wire coming out of it ( sparkplug wire ). HT coils are HT coils... i bought a running lambretta that was using the HT coil out of an old VW in it.

And the GG A + symbols on the regulator? completely normal.

Regulators are easy. The Ground is notated there with the little christmas tree shaped icon ...however the case is grounded as well, so you don't even need to use that third pole with the xmas tree on it.

The important ones are the two "G"'s ...which actually both stand for "giallo", meaning "yellow" in italian. Regulators are NON POLAR, meaning the input and the output don't matter. You run the input wire into one of the terminals, the output wire out of the other ...and excess voltage is filtered off. It couldn't be simpler. There IS no "A" pole, so forget about that. It's just a filler.

And you said the stator has a green and a black coming out. Is that in addition to the 3 wires that have to run the CDI?

Typically on an electronic ignition stator, you've got 3 wires that are needed by the CDI ( on a ducati setup they are RED, WHITE, GREEN) ... then you have the ground that comes off the stator itself ( black ) and the main power output to run all your electrics. This is typically blue, but sounds like it's green on your bike.

Yes it is. There's three that fits my CDI perfectly both size and colour wise.
Then there's a green and a black one that are small and has a head with a hole on it for a screw. I guess for mounting on the old original board.

Thanks that's great comfort to know!

About the PX theory..
There are two holes in my stator. There are three mounting holes.. I need to temporarily remove parts on the stator and drill new holes every 120 degrees. Is this a common "cowboy" problem with bajaj parts that you have to live with or have I simply come across a PX stator by mistake?

Stupid question: The stator angle.. how do I set the timeing?

The regulator had some major differences from the one i have. Two G marks (ground?), one ± and one blank but with another sign on the inprint.
Is this a PX unit only to be used with PX parts.. or is really generic and just as useful as any other regulator?

Sorry for doublechecking everything with you but i really don't want to fry anything and have no idea what i fried afterwards.

first off, there shouldn't be HOLES in your stator...there should be slots that allow you to adjust it +/- 10 degrees or so.

I remember hearing something about people who bought the [redacted].com kit bitching about having to drill holes in their stator to get it to work.

ghey.

Vintage mods make for funky business..
I'd guess you'd had you share of guys like me and every guy brings his box of mystery that's just guesswork unless you've actually installed the whole thing before.

Know of anyone in here who's done a completely homemade 12v conversion on a GS/GL with about the same crap I have?
How to measure out where the holes should be on the statorplate for example.

I really need to find "the authority" on this stuff and there's a lot to be done so maybe you or someone else know of a guy who's "the guy".. you know.. The guy who seen it all before and can make a turn a blender into a 12V conversion kit with ducktape.

I'm not fond of [redacted] or their customer policy.
They could atleast stay to a certain selection of parts since they are new.. and shipping a box with the wrong schematics and a statorplate that not only is short a hole but there's no explaination as to how to mount it or modify it.

If they spent a few more dollars on statorplates with holes and made a how to and maybe marked even marked the 100$ looms with colours that make sense (feel i'm asking a lot for my buck here but..) it would actually be even easier then assembling new bike.
A regular Joe could actually have the whole thing installed, fine tuned and running in a matter of hours.

There are millions of old Vespas and everybody loves them.
Can't see why they don't make a 500$ "turnkey sollution" for 12V instead of this mystery meat what's in the box I ordered for christmas answer it's supposed to be a surprise..
No one has so much time and so little money he'd do this rather than just buy a complete kit.

My "Word of mouth" - don't go near [redacted]. Ebay has better guaranties.

I hope another retailer makes a system that's not guesswork and you need a blow torch to install.

It's a simple two stroke engien from so way back when my grandma had an up to date haircut!!!

They fool you into becoming a auto mechanic with supplier working in Iraq with stuff you've found on three different cars from different ages and countrys.
My guess is the guys from "american chopper" would have shot the bike 10 times with a sawed off two barrell after one days work and then sent it to the owner of [redacted] to show their appriciation.


I need the "I've done that same thing before guy". He's got to be around somewhere!

Hey Eric in Detroit, are you out there? I have some electrical questions also.
My story: 67 vespa GT restoration with an LML 150 replacement. Now 12 volts. If you respond I will formulate more specific questions.
Thanks.
Terry

Post what you need.

Hey Eric, I appolgize for the delayed response here. Back from vacations and summer stuff. Here's the circumstances: I bought a 67 GT basket case with a burned out original motor and a new lml 150 in the box. also included was the CDI, V regulator, and new replacement harness (not an exact match) . I have the engine running and have had everything working with the exception of the brake light and instrument light. I can,t seem to find a diagram of the LML wiring so that I can Mageiver the two together. Do you have any insight. Thanks in advance, I'll be on your response this time.
Sincerely,
Terry

One more thing Eric, where are you in DETROIT? I'm in Ann Arbor.
Terry

Where did you get the engine and harness from? Scooterworks ?

Do you have voltage at the blue wire in the taillight assembly when you step on the brake pedal while the engine is running ? ( use a multimeter to test )

It might just be that you need to better ground the brakelight bulb.

And as far as your "instrument light" i think you mean the speedo bulb? Do you have a bulb in there? It typically gets power off a small light blue lead... and grounds to the speedo housing which bolts to the headset which grounds it out.

Is your speedo bolted in ?



I am in Royal Oak.

The brakelight is always on and the tail tight is never on. The spedo lihgt wire goes to the yellow (#3 i think) on the switch but it seems that I need to run a seperate wire back for power. Thanks for the quick response. Let me look into it tonight and get back to you. Do you know of a site with the LML diagram? Does the p series relate to this engine?
Wy wife will be so happy if I get this thing working. I restored it as a surprise for her birthday back in April so she could ride it to campus.

Well, here's the diagram for the Scooterworks EIK harness.

Notice that it has a single blue wire that basically powers everything.

http://www.chipcook.net/eik_harness.pdf



And if your taillight is always on, and brakelight never on, i assume you have those two wires switched at the tailight.

Remember that the lower of the two bulbs ( and dimmer - should only be 5 watt ) is the tail light. That should always be on whenver your headlight is on. It typically has a yellow lead running to it.

The blue lead runs to the brake light, which is the upper bulb, 10 watt. Both should ground together to the same ground ...which is the black wire that runs with the blue and yellow ..

BUT ..it never hurts to redundantly ground the black to one of the bolts that hold the tail light to the frame.

Thanks Eric.
I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes tonight.
Terry

Hi Eric, looking at the vespa last night with the diagram that you sent and the attached diagram that represents my bike before mods. I did have the blue wire to the brake light connected to the output on the regulator.

questions in the EIK diagram the yellow wire from the tail light is uninterupted from the switch to the light, where does it pick up power?
On the vespa sprint diagram I see this same yellow wire but picking up power at the junction , shoul I cut into this wire to connect with the other power wires coming out of the regulator.

One last thing, For the first time since putting the bike together, I am getting no spark. Is there a systematic way to check the CDI? I don't know what could have happened since those wires have not been messed with and the kill wire is not obviously grounded.


http://modvespa.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/vespa-wiring-diagram-150sprint.jpg
I hope that this is a clear description.
Terry

The EIK and the normal Sprint wiring harnesses are very different.

The sprint wiring diagram assumes you have 3 coil outputs on your stator that provide current to the 3 different circuits - Headlight /Horn, Brakelight and Taillight.

The EIK harness has a single power output from your stator, that runs into the blue wire on the harness which is your main power run. It is regulated by a voltage regulator, and then runs up to the handlebar switch. From there, the power is split up. The yellow runs to the pilot bulb and the Taillight. The purple/brown run to the headlight.

You need to tell me which stator you're running ( how many wire outputs and what colors ) and what wiring harness you've got before we go any further.

The engine was from Scooter works originaly. I neglected to answer that.
From the engine are the wires that directly match the CDI colors. When I hooked them up at the start, the motor started right off.
The only other wires from the engine are from the stator I assume blue and black.

Blue into the Regulator
Black to chassis ground and Regulator ground.

I will verify the harness colors and compare them to the original and get back to you. one more thing: the brake switch is a normally closed grond.
Not sure if they all are or what.
When I get through this with you, I owe you a beer of dinner, I promise.
Terry

OK Eric,
From the engine RED [color=green]Green[/color] White
connect to corresponding colors on CDI

Main harness
blue to brake light
blue to brake switch
greento unregulated stator wire at regulator
red to green with white stripe on CDI
Black chassis ground

The original harness had two yellows that connected to a power wire at the junction box.

Excuse me for including unnecessary information but I just want to give you what you need to help me out.
Terry

Yeah, so this is your problem.

1) obviously, Red / White / Green run to your CDI. Always hook that crap up first. Those three wires tend to be really long off the stator, to make them obvious that they run out the hole, through the junctionbox, and straight back to the CDI. The other 2 wires are short and punch down right into the junctionbox there.

2) the blue wire on your harness that is two wires that come together to a single point at the junction box is NOT your brakelight circuit. It would be on the old sprint harness, but it isn't on the scooterworks EIK harness. On the scooterworks one, it is the MAIN POWER for ALL your electrics on the whole bike. It needs to be hooked up to whatever your main power out on your stator is.... sometimes that's a green wire, ( separate from the 3 long red/white/green wires that run to your CDI )... and sometimes it's blue off the stator. Hook that to whatever color wire that is coming off your stator and going to your junctionbox that is NOT black.

3) Black is ground - obviously the black on the stator hooks to the black on the harness.

4) Green on your harness hooks to the 4th pole on the stator. The second green tab... the one furthest from the engine and closest to you. This is your kill switch. When you hit your kill switch up at the headset, it grounds out this tab and all spark is dumped to ground versus being able to arc across the spark plug and fire the bike.

Try that.

Hey Eric,
Apparently my harness is not the EIK version as the colors and branch configuration is nearly identical to the original.
I found that either the coil or CDI were bad. I had a Mitsubishi coil with the integrated CDI. Tried that, started instantly and has never run better. Every thing works now with the exception of the brake light.
The original Sprint diagram shows the lighting powered by coil #2 but the forward lighting and tail light are off one side of this coil and brake light is off the other side. Could this configuration isolate the brake circuit from the rest.

As it is now the brake switch when closed "shorted" shuts off all other lights as well. How can this function be isolated?
Any other ideas Eric?

One mor thing, As you have made clear I now have only one coil with blue and black output.
Thanks for your patience.
Terry

oh jeez. So, you have a stator with a single power output ... but you're running the original sprint harness with the 3 separate circuits ?

There's a couple problems with this.

1) The brake switch is the opposite type. The original sprint harness used a brakeswitch where the power was ALWAYS going through it, until you stepped on the pedal, at which point you broke the connection to ground, and lit up the brakelight.

2) You're basically going to need to do some custom wiring of your brakelight system.


See, normally, there was a blue circuit on your sprint harness / stator where the power flowed out of your stator and then immediately hit a Y-junction at the junction box. One leg of the blue wire goes back to the brakelight, across the bulb, and to ground. The other leg of the blue goes to your brake pedal and flows to ground. Now, your brakepedal is in a normally-closed position, meaning power is ALWAYS flowing from the coil, through the harness, opting for the Y-leg that goes to the brakeswitch, and then grounding all the power on that circuit.

When you step on the brake pedal, it BREAKS the connection, and gives the power the only other way to travel - across the bulb to ground.


On a single-power stator like yours, this harness type poses a problem. Since all the power comes from 1 single source ( versus 3 separate sources on the old system - different coils on your stator ) ... then normally your old-style brake pedal grounds ALL the power in the system, until you step on the pedal, and then everything lights up... or vice versa... everything is lit up UNTIL you step on the brake pedal, and then everything goes out.

You need to modify the harness.

Basically, you need to break the connection of where those 2 blue wires are soldered together in your junction box. Then you need to figure out which one runs up to the brakelight switch and which one goes back to the braklight bulb. ( a multimeter / continuity tester will tell you this easily )

Then you basically need to think "ok ..power needs to flow TO the brakeswitch.... then back from the brakeswitch to the bulb.

So, you basically need to pull another blue wire up from the junction box to the brakeswitch. Hook one of your blue wires to the brakeswitch to the one you've figured out goes back to the brakelight.

At that point you should have power from the 12v regulator, to the brakepedal, back from the brakepedal to the brakelight, and the brakelight should ground itself on the other side of the bulb.

Once you get that setup, everything should work, assuming you have the type of brakeswitch which is normally OPEN ( meaning, not making electrical connection ) until you step on the brakepedal, the little springloaded plunger then allows electrical contact to flow, and you get current all the way back to the bulb.

Hope that makes sense.